saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

[ivor43]

John.
I may have confused this a bit.
What i mean is, original Time of Death Burials. With the Deaths in Calonne at least 3 died before the German hospital could have been operating so there is a possibility that they would have been buried in the cemetery not the school field so would presumably not have been part of the 41/2 clearance. This is what i would understand as Final Resting Place Burials,Meaning not moved later. ( Could be wrong ).
But we know that a number were buried in the School Field and moved in 41/2 . so just slightly confused. But thats nothing new. :)))




ivor

[Verrieres]

Hello Ivor,
I think I caused the initial confusion.Final resting place refers to where they lie today irrespective of previous buriels and exumations.Sorry

Best


Jim



John.
I may have confused this a bit.
What i mean is, original Time of Death Burials. With the Deaths in Calonne at least 3 died before the German hospital could have been operating so there is a possibility that they would have been buried in the cemetery not the school field so would presumably not have been part of the 41/2 clearance. This is what i would understand as Final Resting Place Burials,Meaning not moved later. ( Could be wrong ).
But we know that a number were buried in the School Field and moved in 41/2 . so just slightly confused. But thats nothing new. :)))




ivor

[ivor43]

Jim
Thanks for that. Am on holiday in Cyprus at the moment and dont have full access. be in touch more next week.


ivor

[Verrieres]

Hello,
I spent a couple of hours in Durham City this morning and managed to visit the records office there.This place holds the documents previously held at the DLI museum.I found one mention of Anthony Corkhill in the Non Effective Discharge book for 1940.The entry simply reads;-
4449147 CORKHILL.A, PTE. DIED IN FRANCE 29th MAY 1940.

Nothing new, simply confirms really that Anthony was known to have died on this date,not believed missing,not believed killed ...died 29th May 1940.Who witnessed this? Who reported his death to the Army?


Jim

[dcdl12976]

Hmm by that Jim it would appear that someone may have been present when he died it may have been another prisoner and was reported when he returned to England or maybe a French national or even the Germans through the red cross

[ivor43]

Hi all.
after a nice sunny and relaxing week in Cyprus, now ready for battle again.
Jim, Final Resting Places. Ok i accept your explanation, but i am still puzzled.In your post #493 you quote 15 temp/field graves in St Floris and 34 in Robecq. But CWGC have only 7 in St Floris and 9 in Robecq. all of which appear to have died prior to the German advance. Would i be right in thinking that these could have been buried in the local cemetery by their units and the burials fully recorded so there would have been no need to exhume them in 41/2. this means that 8 of the St Floris and 25 of the Robecq burials were moved somewhere else, St Venant ?
At Calonne you quote 22 although John says 25. but that is not a problem, we know at least 3 must have died prior to the Field Post starting operation, again these may have been buried in the Cemetery and recorded. This would indicate 22 either in the School field or in field graves in the area. I believe the only way to solve this is to find out if a 41/2 list exists for Calonne.
Would it have been kept by the Mayors office or would it be with MoD/CWGC which is where i would expect it to be, they may be more helpful here than St Venant.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

Calonne: 2 - Great War, 22 - May 1940, 1 - RAF Oct 1940, so 25 in all.

John

[ivor43]

Thanks John.No great problem it just means revising figures, which just might be interesting.
So we go back to 22 burials.we have 11 known burials and have just discounted 3 knowns 2 WW1 and the RAF guy. then we have 8, three of which may have died before the Germans arrived, 2 on 24th and one between 25/27 so may be already in the cemetery. leaving 5.one on 27,one on 28 and 2 on 29 with one between 26/27, which where most probably in the school field.
There are 11 unknown and 3 whose unit was known (14) we are told that 5 had their ID removed in Hospital so we are down to 9. Now if it could be possible to establish if there were any field graves,other than the school field, in the area then, in theory, it should be possible to establish if any other unknowns died at the hospital. Possibly Anthony if he was taken there.
Although this seems complex it would seem to indicate that there could be as few as 10 or so graves in the school field. A list would be very handy.



ivor

[Verrieres]

Hi all.
after a nice sunny and relaxing week in Cyprus, now ready for battle again.
Jim, Final Resting Places. Ok i accept your explanation, but i am still puzzled.In your post #493 you quote 15 temp/field graves in St Floris and 34 in Robecq. But CWGC have only 7 in St Floris and 9 in Robecq. all of which appear to have died prior to the German advance. Would i be right in thinking that these could have been buried in the local cemetery by their units and the burials fully recorded so there would have been no need to exhume them in 41/2. this means that 8 of the St Floris and 25 of the Robecq burials were moved somewhere else, St Venant ?
At Calonne you quote 22 although John says 25. but that is not a problem, we know at least 3 must have died prior to the Field Post starting operation, again these may have been buried in the Cemetery and recorded. This would indicate 22 either in the School field or in field graves in the area. I believe the only way to solve this is to find out if a 41/2 list exists for Calonne.
Would it have been kept by the Mayors office or would it be with MoD/CWGC which is where i would expect it to be, they may be more helpful here than St Venant.


ivor

Hello Ivor,
The figures are not mine as I stated I quoted them from M.Faivres account he is the man on the ground so to speak.These were field graves not proper buriels as field graves I would not think these would have been directly into a cemetery the term field grave is simply a `battlefield grave` who was buried where and from which original location are contained on lists.M.Faivre has one,as do the MoD as both were quoted in the book `The Search for Tom`that was why Tom Rodgers was given a `believed to be`headstone because both lists differed somewhat.Does the CWGC hold a list ?? Thats a million dollar question and one which only the CWGC can answer...but they wo`nt!
The CWGC do not even list where the unknowns lie we have had to use other sources to determine their positions within the St Venant cemetery the other cemeteries are proving a little harder to source.
Dave ,Tony is at this time attempting to locate a possible Q Form detailing Pte Corkhills demise failing that a prisoners questionaire? The Red Cross hold nothing apart from the enquiry to RSM Goddard. The Germans have no record of him.Did a Frenchman witness his death ?Possibly but how would he know Anthony ?Tony believes he was`nt wearing a Dog Tag and the DLI had only been in St Venant a couple of days.Somewhere there is a statement detailing the last hours of Anthonys life..we have to continue to believe that .


Jim

[ivor43]

Morning all
First, Jim, i have a great deal of faith in the outcome of this, we will succeed.
Second. if you think that my mathematical musings of last night were the ramblings of an old man who had lost his marbles, maybe, but it has proved an interesting exercise for me at least.
I have come to the conclusion that something doe's not fit.
In order to reorganise my marbles i ask you to stick with me on this it will make sense in the end.
Ok, the German Aid Post/ School, do we know exactly where it was, possibly not.
In the UK there was a practice of naming a school for the particular area ,like New Road Primary or similar.Is there a possibility that there could have been a Robecq Rd school on the edge of Calonne, this is a rural community so there may be a possibility. so maybe the Aid Post was out here.
Speculation, well possibly not.
Right, Jim, early in the thread we spoke of Soldier 6. who i believe fitted the description of Anthony' wounds. who i also seem to recall was found in a grave in a field at the side of the Robecq Rd. Could This Have Been The School Field ?????
Even the number Soldier 6 may be significant. We know that 5 men had their ID removed in the Hospital could Soldier 6 be a man who did not have ID to start with,Anthony.
Do you know how many bodies were in this grave. i would expect al least 11.




ivor

[Verrieres]

Hello Ivor,

John may have the name of the school I assumed there was only one to be honest.Soldier 6 is simply Case No 6 in the War Crimes Files nothing at all to do with how many bodies were in a grave etc.Sorry. In relation to the exumations perhaps this will interest you from the CWGC

During the withdrawal of the British Expeditionary Force to Dunkirk in May 1940, there was heavy fighting in the area around Calonne-sur-la-Lys, and most of the inhabitants left the area. The school was used by the Germans as an aid post, and British soldiers who died at Calonne, either in battle or of wounds while prisoners, were buried by the Germans in the field behind the school. In 1942 the local people moved these graves into the communal cemetery, but in the meantime the rough grave markers had in many instances become illegible. The identity discs and personal possessions had mostly been removed before burial, so that in 1942 few of the dead could be identified.

The communal cemetery now contains 23 Commonwealth burials of the Second World War, 14 of which are unidentified. There are also two burials from the First World War.



Just googled schools and found two modern ones addresses are ;-
141 rue du Bois

62350 Calonne-sur-la-Lys 62350 Calonne-sur-la-Lys
and
178 rue du Bois

62350 Calonne-sur-la-Lys 62350 Calonne-sur-la-Lys

Rue du Bois isnt too far away from Rue de Robecq but I do not know if these are the school(s) in question.

Jim

[Baconwallah]

Soldier No. 6 to the best of my knowledge was buried in the Robecq Road mass grave. That was to the south of St Venant, nowhere near Calonne.

John

[Verrieres]

I wonder if anyone can advise who actually holds cemetery buriel records? After yet another unsuccesful enquiry with the CWGC (unrelated to this search) in which they got my name,the casualty details including awards all totally wrong in their reply, I have now come to the conclusion they are either deliberately misleading people or totally incompetant in their admin work.(I cannot fault their horticultural staff who are 1st Class).
The records in question were produced for every War Cemetery they also show the co=ordinates of field/temp graves despite what we are being told.Hopefully the image linked below is visible and you can get an idea of what these records hold.Go to the link and click on the left side Misidentified Graves

http://www.jackclegg3.webspace.virginmedia.com/


Jim

[Verrieres]

Hello,

Just a quick update and to let everyone know this search is continuing.Behind the scenes Tony has to date had no luck with the researcher he hired so in the meanwhile I have spoken with John regarding a proposal we received in respect of composing a letter appealing to the MoD to release to the Corkhill family any `additional` records they may hold covering the final two days of Anthony Corkhills life .This letter was to be backed up by a similar letter to the Corkhills MP asking for their support in their search. We have contacted Tony and he has agreed to this course of action.
The letter is prepared,the evidence (such as we have) is copied,the letter to the MP is completed.Today Tony will send off these documents and ............ we hope and we wait.
Best Wishes

Jim

[ivor43]

hi all.
Thanks Jim, i am in full agreement with this course of action and i hope it brings results.
Sadly, however, i have found info that would lead me to believe that nothing will be found. But i will not say any more about this, yet.


ivor

[dcdl12976]

I too wish you luck with this however i have reservations as Ivor has said.

[Verrieres]

Hello,
After 73 years hope and luck is all we have,nevertheless in the past month or two we have turned up an entry in the DLI Non Effective Book for Anthony `Died in France 29th May 1940`Anthonys `Casualty Card` amended from missing 10/05/40-29/05/1940 to ` Died of Wounds 29th May 1940` and Anthonys service records pension date `29 May 1940`. Sevice Record amendment by the War Office `Dead 29th May 1940`made Oct 41 Letter to the Corkhill Family November 1941 `Died 29th May 1940` bear in mind according to the `official` records Anthony Corkhill was last seen alive on the 27th May 1940 by RSM Goddard this was received by the Red Cross in Oct 41 if this was indeed the last time Anthony was seen alive why is his date of death two days later on all documents? Why did the War Office so meticulous in searching out missing men not even despatch a searcher party for Anthony Corkhill? Because his death is recorded..................someone else bore last witness to Anthonys death will that record have survived ?.......................?

Best

Jim

[ivor43]

Hi all.

Jim, your last post has given me some interesting thoughts. Let us start with the ‘’ Missing ‘’ dates. Where actually where 2DLI and the rest of the Bgd on 10/5 /40.
When this was raised some time ago I think I asked if it was possible that he may have been taken off 2DLI and transferred to Bgd.
But now I wonder. It has been suggested that Anthony may have been a DR. Now someone is going to have to put me right on this.
Were DR’s attached to HQ’s, Sigs or units?
If so would they then wear the Uniforms of the unit to which they were then attached ?.
What makes me wonder about this is that we frequently see ‘Unknowns’ with their unit eg Manchester Rgt.
Is there any possibility, therefore that Anthony could be not an unknown 2DLI but an unknown something else.
The DR idea might also explain why Anthony appears to have been away from RSM Goddard.. He may have been away since the 10th.

Now let us look at Oct 41.
It appears that Anthony’s DoD is accepted as 29.5.40 during Oct. The Red Cross received Goddard’s letter in Oct so it would seem unlikely that he knew of Anthony’s death when he wrote it, but it seems to prove when last seen alive.
But Oct 41 is significant for something else. The Field Grave Clearances.
Under normal circumstances the only persons authorised to sign Death Certificates are Doctors. I assume therefore that one of the purposes of the clearances was to enable a Cert to be signed.
Now we have a puzzle. A body in the ground for 17 months is going to be difficult to ID from any physical remains. The only way will be from ‘Dog Tags’ or personal effects., Anthony had no tags.
Hmmm.
Unless.
If Anthony is already in a Hospital, Calonne, Then there will be a file on him. If his manner of death is as we suspect, then his file can be closed, by a doctor. Died Of Wounds 29/5/1940. and his Burial Place Would Be Known to those who did the clearances in 1941. as I assume the Hospital files would have been made available to those doing the clearance, and I would expect his grave location to have been noted.
However. Although the Hospital report might state the burial position of a known at the time of death , if in 41 the ID could not be Proven , would the person then become an Unknown. hmmm .

ivor

[dcdl12976]

I can answer a couple of your questions Ivor, "Wearing uniforms of unit which detached to " Simlpy put no because the only real difference would be the regimental cap badge and given the pride most soldiers have in there badged regiment changing cap badges without being officially sanctioned ordered and officialy transfered would be highly unlikely (and against Army Regs anyway). It is possible i suppose but highly unlikely

Dispatch riders.
From what Dad tells me and from my own experience generally they would be part of HQ but as has been said before that does not mean they were always at HQ, quite the reverse in fact since the nature of there job means they could be anywhere, anytime, if so ordered. Of course it is posible for a DR to be seconded to Brigader or another Regiment but in my view unlikely since Brigade in particular would have a good complement of DR,s in there own right however it is possible Anrthony was at Brigade on a visit as a DR and was grabbed by an officer or senior rank and ordered to do a job for them.

Cheers now

Dave

[Verrieres]

I cannot rule anything out of course but the cap badge is a non starter even attached to brigade they would wear their parent regt cap badges.In 1940 the battledress blouse was ,in the main,very plain if Anthony had been an NCO then his stripe(s)would have been very distinct with light infantry units backed with dark green.
The DR for the DLI ferrying messages to and from Brigade was Pte Fred Cottier as Dave points out they were part of Hq Company. We cannot say for sure which Company Anthony was with at the end but we know which ever one he was with it was fighting near the canal because this is where RSM Goddard saw him.
There are no known records of Anthony Corkhill in any hospital,at least not identified as Anthony,the Red Cross checked and so did John with his German contacts.Anthonys death was confirmed in Oct 41 but it appears this was known by the Army as early as June 1940 when the dates 10/05/40-29/05/40 were first given .
Interestingly enough the amendment on his service record reads `DIED OF WOUNDS ON or SINCE 29/05/1940` which confirms even more that someone else,not RSM Goddard,saw Anthony Corkhill after the 27th May 1940. Ivor you are right about the RSM he did`nt know Anthony was dead,I have spoken with his son about this,the mystery of Anthony Corkhill haunted his father until the day he died he had always assumed he was simply in another camp.

Best

Jim

[ivor43]

Good Morning.
Thanks for the info guys
Dave. whilst i do not doubt you, i find you quote below remarkable.

" Simlpy put no because the only real difference would be the regimental cap badge and given the pride most soldiers have in there badged regiment changing cap badges without being officially sanctioned ordered and officialy transfered would be highly unlikely (and against Army Regs anyway). It is possible i suppose but highly unlikely. ''

Does this mean therefore, that any man who lost his cap, and in the circumstances we are dealing with would seem to me to be very, very possible. If severely wounded it would not be possible to ID him to his unit. I thought that a unit name tag was sewn on the shoulder of the Battledress tunics. which is why i asked the question, Cap Badges never occurred to me.

Jim. The knowledge that the army knew as early as June 40 possibly isn't that surprising. It was known that the Hospital was in the area. It is known that British troops were still fighting in the area some time later, so the info that it had moved on 29th could easily have got back. Even the '' On or Since 29/5/40 '' makes sense. It is likely that the British would not have known exactly what happened to the wounded there. and certainly i doubt they would have known, at that time, of the possibility of murders there.
But these ' missing ' dates are puzzling me. As i said before Where were they on 10th and was there anything of significance known to have occurred on or just before that date. anything which may account for Anthony's apparent 'disappearance' until seen by Goddard on 27th. this seems odd.Was there anyone else shown missing between these dates ?


ivor

[dcdl12976]

Ivor you may be right but Dad said he never wore shoulder titles (of course at 95 he may misremember) however he also said he wore the 2nd division shoulder flash (crossed keys). As you say if a soldier lost his cap he may well have found a replacement from somwhere and if he had no tags (as Anthony ) thus been put down as a wrong unit. I suspect you are correct and most would have shoulder titles and thus be identified from them in which case we run into a whole new can of worms.

Cheers

Dave

[ivor43]

Hi All.

Of Course SOMETHING Happened on 10 May 1940. The German's invaded, (I have deleted the next couple of lines as they were not suitable for persons of a nervous disposition or for family viewing.) Of Course The Bl**** Germans Invaded. something of a SLIGHT significance.
But this could explain something else.
Prior to the 10th was it not the practice for troops due R&R to be returned to UK for leave. so on 10th ALL BEF men on leave would have been given an IMMEDIATE recall. So could Anthony have been on leave in UK and in the rush to get back is this when he left his 'Dog Tags ' behind, and when they got back to France it took quite some time for them to find their units.
I can well imagine quite a lot of men were Missing at that time, somewhere in France trying to find their units.


Ivor.

[dcdl12976]

A damded good thought Ivor however i would think it unlikely that many would be granted leave when an attack was thought possible at any time (i am probobly wrong on that) but it is a distinct possibility.

Ref the shoulder titles, a little research reveals that until just after Dunkirk shoulder titles were metal pin on type and thus easily removed and looking at lots of photos from the time in France there are few that show them in use. Bearing in mind the poor photos and the fact that brownish metal titles would not show up very well on kharki i believe my Dad may be correct. Bearing in mind the standard pow orders of name rank and number only to be given to the enemy why have shoulder tities that gave away the regiment (even though the cap badge did). One of the weird and silly things of the time i suppose.

A little research may reveal an order to remove them on a war footing when serving in France at this time.

Cheers Ivor

Dave

[Verrieres]

Hi,
Just a couple of points battledress at this time May 1940 had no insignia, no shoulder titles metal of cloth versions no crossed keys nothing except rank badges some formations adopted unofficial versions but not the 2nd DLI.Captain Annands batledress is at the DLI museum its blank apart from his pips.
It was after the BEF action that the various shoulder titles and unit insignia started to be worn again.Pre war the brass shoulder title was worn on service dress but not in France 1940.
Ivor there were many DLI `missing` from 10th May 1940 onwards but Anthony was not one of them ,he simply had not drew any pay (like the majority of 2 DLI) Anthony Corkhill only became a concern after RSM Goddard saw him on the 27th May 1940. The fact that we are unable to establish which Company he was with is common with no surviving Company lists and in the most of the cases I have encountered all references to a mans Company are based on the Company Roll on deployment in France. Hope this clears up a few things. The only item other than a dog tag which a soldier always carried was his AB64.

Best

Jim

Just a small edit Anthony was not on leave he returned in April 1940. Those on leave at the time of the German advance(DLI,RWF,R.Berks,RA etc) were formed into a composite battalion,not to far away but not near the fighting at St Venant.Dave the thing about divisional signs and shoulder titles were ordered to be removed but any man could be identified by his paybook which contained a soldiers army number which pre war and in the first year or two were issued in regimental blocks which the Germans would have been aware of anyway.

[dcdl12976]

Thanks for that Jim it confirms what i thought about the titles, thonugh dad says he wore the 2 div patch however i have his from that time and it has popper things on it which suggests it was easily removable from before deployment to France.

I hadnt though about the AB 64 that suggests that Anthony was not in possestion of his when he was captured/died otherwise there would be some record somewhere he was in possestion of the AB64 when he was buried surely that info would have been enough to put on his grave.

Dave

[ivor43]

Hi
Ok, so things get more complicated. so not only does Anthony apparently leave his 'Dog Tags ' in the UK it might seem to appear he left his pay book there as well.
Right, Jim, are you saying that just because Anthony did not draw his pay he would have been recorded as ' missing '. What was the Pay procedure prior to the 10th a pay parade ?. i would have thought that from the 10th a formal parade would have been almost impossible.

ivor

[Verrieres]

Hi
Ok, so things get more complicated. so not only does Anthony apparently leave his 'Dog Tags ' in the UK it might seem to appear he left his pay book there as well.
Right, Jim, are you saying that just because Anthony did not draw his pay he would have been recorded as ' missing '. What was the Pay procedure prior to the 10th a pay parade ?. i would have thought that from the 10th a formal parade would have been almost impossible.

ivor

Hello Ivor,
No I`m saying he was never posted as missing until the 14th June 1940 and then only briefly.He was confirmed as `DEAD` Q80 on the Roll he was never treated as a missing soldier no enquiries were ever (as far as can be ascertained) carried out into his wearabouts.No searcher parties no correspondence to those he served with, to the War Office he was `DEAD`.This is the inconsistancy in the whole search and which has led us to believe something further was filed/reported in regards to his death. Anthony has no known grave his AB64 could have been taken from him along with piles of other AB64s (or it could be still with him).The Mayor stated at the time soldiers personal effects which were recovered from the dead were despatched to the relevent authorities..whoever they were.
Best

Jim

[Verrieres]

Afternoon,

I have heard from Tony, last night he received an email from the MoD as expected not very encouraging..a little explaination in what they normally do in these cases ...I say normally because apparently due to a lack of staff they will not even be looking into this !...Sorry thats it for now too angry to comment further at this time.Just to keep you all up to speed really.
Best

Jim

[dcdl12976]

So not helpfull at all Jim but thanks for letting us know mate.

[Verrieres]

So not helpfull at all Jim but thanks for letting us know mate.


Hello Dave,
Blood pressure is returning to normal now! No not very helpful at all,I expected an initial knockback but the reasoning behind it simply blew me away! Anyhow we factored in this type of response thats why everything was copied and sent off to Tonys MP its time to put a little pressure that way I think?
I may be reading too much into this but Tonys mail from the MoD set out the `normal` procedure ie they contact the CWGC who forward their documents to the Casualty people who compile the case as requested. Now we have already contacted the CWGC and they stated they hold no records of their own on Anthony and referred us to the JCCC, The CWGC stated the Dates of Death were supplied by the relevent service authority at the time. I natually assumed that the CWGC held nothing and the MoD had the relevent records ..what if I`ve read this wrong?
Could they(CWGC) mean, bearing in mind the MoD `normal` procedure, that they have records but they hold those that belong to the MoD and thus cannot release them without the MoD approval hence the `Normal` procedure? I`m clutching at straws but is it a possibility?
Meanwhile Newspaper contact is moving rapidly along and we have other courses/paths to travel we will keep chipping away Anthony has waited 73 years I am afraid he may have to wait just a little while longer but we are coming for you son! Your Country may have forgotten but we have not.Chin up Tony onward and upwards mate!

Best

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Jim you may be correct but so far as i am aware MOD records remain MOD records and only a copy with as much info as required would have been supplied to anyone else, remember the MOD like any government department will only answer exactly what they were asked and no more i.e. they will not volunteer info over and above the question asked (if they answer at all as you have found). I find the excuse they are short staffed very strange, they are but not to that extent i believe.
A point to bear in mind is that so far as i am aware many MOD records are now held and administered by a private firm, certainly civil servants records so i suspect some military records may also be held thus. Also bear in mind that normaly the MOD will only release service info etc to a direct relation and they may not consider Tony to be so. Dont forget also that some records have a 75 year statute before they can be released, am not suggesting this as a reason but it is worth bearing in mind.

There is of course other possibilities why they will not check and i am beginning to think Ivor and my thoughts on this may be nearer to the truth than we realise (not for the forum of course especially since i work for the MOD in a lowly capacity).

My feelings on this is that the thing stinks, and i would hazard a guess that the 75 year rule is being applied for some reason as yet unknown.

Sorry if that sounds negative but for what its worth it is my feeling and opinion mate.

Cheers
Dave

[Verrieres]

Jim you may be correct but so far as i am aware MOD records remain MOD records and only a copy with as much info as required would have been supplied to anyone else, remember the MOD like any government department will only answer exactly what they were asked and no more i.e. they will not volunteer info over and above the question asked (if they answer at all as you have found). I find the excuse they are short staffed very strange, they are but not to that extent i believe.
A point to bear in mind is that so far as i am aware many MOD records are now held and administered by a private firm, certainly civil servants records so i suspect some military records may also be held thus. Also bear in mind that normaly the MOD will only release service info etc to a direct relation and they may not consider Tony to be so. Dont forget also that some records have a 75 year statute before they can be released, am not suggesting this as a reason but it is worth bearing in mind.

There is of course other possibilities why they will not check and i am beginning to think Ivor and my thoughts on this may be nearer to the truth than we realise (not for the forum of course especially since i work for the MOD in a lowly capacity).

My feelings on this is that the thing stinks, and i would hazard a guess that the 75 year rule is being applied for some reason as yet unknown.

Sorry if that sounds negative but for what its worth it is my feeling and opinion mate.

Cheers
Dave

Hello Dave,

Something is amiss with this, one question throws up another the deeper you go.Has anyone stopped to ask themselves why such an important battle which basically saw three top infantry regiments decimated has never been covered in detail.The 2 DLI diary,at least,records that the full story of what happened to the rifle companies will not be told until they return from captivity..which to the best of my knowledge never was?
In respect of the MoD`s records remaining their property yes I`d agree with that but they do not always retain the originals when I applied for my uncles records he too was killed with the DLI I received a very apologetic letter with three photocopied sheets and an explaination that my uncles records had been sent on loan to what is now the Veterans agency and were believed subsequently destroyed! I disputed the fact that they would have destroyed them and asked that further enquiries be made into their wearabouts.Two months later I received a second letter again apologising the records had been returned and copies were enclosed in full...what would have happened if I had not pursued them?.....Nothing I suspect.
In respect of the MoDs excuse they state they have only two staff on Historic identifications and these were `busy` with casualties of both Wars who turn up in France the rest assist with Afghanistan...the too hard box springs to mind!

Best Wishes

Jim

[bennyball2]

I am not sure if you have seen this web site but just in case it may throu some light on anything you are researching I have copied the link for you, if you have already seen it then nothing lost www.webmatters.net/txtpat/index.php?id=272 (http://www.webmatters.net/txtpat/index.php?id=272)
Hello Dave
Something is amiss with this, one question throws up another the deeper you go.Has anyone stopped to ask themselves why such an important battle which basically saw three top infantry regiments decimated has never been covered in detail.The 2 DLI diary,at least,records that the full story of what happened to the rifle companies will not be told until they return from captivity..which to the best of my knowledge never was?
In respect of the MoD`s records remaining their property yes I`d agree with that but they do not always retain the originals when I applied for my uncles records he too was killed with the DLI I received a very apologetic letter with three photocopied sheets and an explaination that my uncles records had been sent on loan to what is now the Veterans agency and were believed subsequently destroyed! I disputed the fact that they would have destroyed them and asked that further enquiries be made into their wearabouts.Two months later I received a second letter again apologising the records had been returned and copies were enclosed in full...what would have happened if I had not pursued them?.....Nothing I suspect.
In respect of the MoDs excuse they state they have only two staff on Historic identifications and these were `busy` with casualties of both Wars who turn up in France the rest assist with Afghanistan...the too hard box springs to mind!

Best Wishes

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Hello Dave,

Something is amiss with this, one question throws up another the deeper you go.Has anyone stopped to ask themselves why such an important battle which basically saw three top infantry regiments decimated has never been covered in detail.The 2 DLI diary,at least,records that the full story of what happened to the rifle companies will not be told until they return from captivity..which to the best of my knowledge never was?

Jim

I do agree Jim, have you thought that so far as i can find no war diary from the 1st Royal Berks at this time is to be found anywhere ? possibly these were lost/destoyed etc at the time but there may be other reasons as well. its just possible that my father may well hold some clues but at 95 i doubt he may remember (or may not say) there is a point to me saying this but its not for forum view mate. Sorry.
Agreed yo uneed to keep pushing at the MOD and you may eventually get a result. No excuse to say they are tied up wth Afganistan this is NOT a historic war it is indeed still going on as we are all aware,u are i think correct in sayiny "to hard" i would rather say "cant be bothered" cos there is talking and reading papers to do. However maybe i am being a litle hard on a department that is being cut in numbers of staff daily.

Cheers

Dave

[dcdl12976]

Thanks bennyball2 we did i think know about this link but it never hurts to be reminded mate.

[Verrieres]

I do agree Jim, have you thought that so far as i can find no war diary from the 1st Royal Berks at this time is to be found anywhere ? possibly these were lost/destoyed etc at the time but there may be other reasons as well. its just possible that my father may well hold some clues but at 95 i doubt he may remember (or may not say) there is a point to me saying this but its not for forum view mate. Sorry.
Agreed yo uneed to keep pushing at the MOD and you may eventually get a result. No excuse to say they are tied up wth Afganistan this is NOT a historic war it is indeed still going on as we are all aware,u are i think correct in sayiny "to hard" i would rather say "cant be bothered" cos there is talking and reading papers to do. However maybe i am being a litle hard on a department that is being cut in numbers of staff daily.

Cheers

Dave

Hello Dave,
The Royal Berks Diary has always been a mystery to me the 2DLI are reconstituted they are not original so why not reconstitute the Royal Berks? or would that be forgery as the originals still exist ....in the same box as Q80 possibly:winkicon:

Best

Jim

[ivor43]

Good Morning.
Well guys , you probably now realise that we are into something not quite what we expected. Welcome to St Vennant
In ‘’Ye Olden Days ‘’ a map would have shown the area as ‘’Do Not Enter. There Be DRAGONS Here’.I am very,very reluctant to enter there, as I believe I know who the Dragons are.
You have found that by looking at the War Diaries of the 3 units involved, that they are either wrong, RWF Dates, missing, rewritten. 2DLI or just plain missing. 1RB.
This would not have surfaced otherwise.
There are several known incident of FF.. I believe that the deaths of Lt Garnett of the RWF and 6 others ,Grave markers 23/5/40, RWF WD 24/5/40 . were a result of the advancing RWF coming under fire from a Co of 2/5 WY who had been tasked with the defence of St Floris to hold against the Known German advance into St Vennant. On 23rd.
The account from Mr Cook Snr of the arty fire and the comments of the FOO that they believed that the Gremans held the position, would seem to indicate that British troops were not known to be further west than St Floris.which appears to have been the British Holding Position.
So why were they there ?
Another very strange thing occurs to Mr Cook Snr. On his return to UK he is Hospitalised and he arranges to speak to the parents of his friend who was killed in the FF incident. When he is released from Hospital he is not posted back to his regiment, he is posted, without any prior notification, for Parachute training to become an Air Gunner. I am not sure if you are aware but the life expectancy of an AG was measured in Days/weeks not months. Very Odd. But fortunately he survived and he has my total respect.
I might be a cynical old sod but it might seem that Mr Cook may have been deliberately put in Harms Way.
With regard to the reasons why British troop were in St Vennant. When it was known that the German’s were there on 23rd and the British were holding at St Floris.I will not comment. I have my own opinion regarding this but that is how it will stay.
In conclusion I will just say that yes I believe that there is something very odd here and I do not believe that we are going to get any further with this, unless we are able to find someone outside this forum with a Lot of Seniority and Authority..


Ivor

[dcdl12976]

Thanks to Ivor for his post, i am of the opinion that i have to be pretty carefull what i say on the open forum still working for the MOD and all. One point mate if dads memory is right and the incident took place on the 24th then since he said he was very close to the footbridge to Haversque then the Royal Berks were even further out of the area they should have been in than we thought.

Perhaps a reminder of Dads mate,s Mother and Father might be in order here his Father being an ex Brigadier and officially a "Gentleman" and the family lived in Warwick where Dad was in hospital.

At some time i seem to remember Dad telling me that after his parachute training he was sent to a "Large house in the country" cant remember which county though for further training. As well as being a mid upper gunner on Sunderlands he was gunner in Bolton and Paul Defiants and flew in and out of Malta several times (quite what he was up to i may never know). i do know that at some point he was wounded in the wrist and still has a fixed wrist to this day. One thing i vividly remember when i was very young was a gang of younsters giving him grief and if i remember right he put several down in short time.

His medals are Africa Star with 1st Army clasp, 1939/45 Star Italy star And Atlantic star plus the usual 2 others so that gives us a clue that what he says is fairly accurate. One thing eludes me though what was a soldier doing as mid upper gunner on Sunderlands over the Atlantic.

I have long thought it strange that this battle has so little info on the net or elsewhere not to mention the various anomolies in the War Diaries including the s missing one, by the way i never did have a reply from the Wardrobe to my question about the diary and the battle.

Anyway enough for now this isnt helping to find Anthony.

Cheers

Dave

[ivor43]

hi.
Dave, i agree with your being careful. but you may have found one of the Dragons. I believe another was a sometime High Sheriff of an Irish County.
Thanks again to your Dad.
Now, as to this not helping to find Anthony, well, maybe,you are aware that i still believe that Anthony will be found at Calonne. But if i am wrong and Anthony is in St Vennant, then we will have to come up with something very dramatic in order to blow this whole thing open. But if possible, we have to beware that we do not open a very,very large can of worms in doing so.



ivor

[dcdl12976]

Thanks Ivor yes i think i have the one dragon but as to the other i dont have a clue im afraid obviously you have checked (or found) something i havent. Sadly i believe this could well go to very close to the top of the powers that be, military,Goverment, MOD and maybe even "another place" as the saying goes. If that is so then i feel we will not get anywhere (i hope im wrong on this) if we are correct then the can of worms contains very large,rich and powerfull worms.

Hope im wrong mate.

Cheers
Dave

[Verrieres]

Hello,
I will make this brief for Tony deserves all the credit and I want him to come here and tell you all what he has accomplished today. I will tell you this he has fought his corner well with both the MoD and CWGC today. Come on Tony credit where due mate after the consessions you got today you need to be justly proud.Well done.

Post away mate

Best

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Jim, Tony i am looking forward to some good news on this for a change. Fingers crossed

[teecee1941]

Hello All,

Sorry for the delay in replying but I've had 'one of those days'. My description of the good news that Jim writes about is more like the 'promise of good news to come' or perhaps the launching pad for a major development. What happened was this;- I wrote off to the MoDs JCCC a week or two ago and a few days ago received an email telling me that there was nothing they could do because of 'staff shortages'. I rang the office and spoke to the very charming lady who had sent me the email. I pointed out that this was not an ordinary historical search of the kind that were being put into cold storage because of lack of staff. I managed to get the message across that if the War Office at the time knew enough about Anthony being dead to amend his 'missing' status to that of 'dead' and remove him from the Army payroll, there must have been some documentary evidence to support this and the record could still exist today.

After a lengthy and promising talk I was given the number of a person at the CWGC who had already been approached by JCCC to ask if he had anything to add to what I had already told them in my introductory letter. I rang the gentleman and after the initial 'things are not looking so good on this number' he turned out to be quite keen to help. We discussed the fact that, as far as we know, there were only two casualties on the 29th May, Anthony (without identification) and Syd Walt (indentified).

It seems that Syd is buried in Saint Venant Communal Cemetery. He has a headstone marking the spot where he is buried. Next to him is an unknown. We are aware that we will probably never find out the name of that unknown but I have asked the CWGC if they could find out WHEN HE DIED. I know it's perhaps schoolboy logic but if that unknown was killed on the 29th May, then there must be a chance that he is in fact, Anthony. I realise of course that Anthony and Syd may have been a few miles apart when they died and this could have led to them being buried in different locations but if they were near enough to have been both put into the same ambulance or other means of transport, it would have made sense to bury one next to the other.

To cut a long story short, I have a promise from the CWGC that they will investigate this fully and pass their report on to JCCC who will let me know the result of their findings. The person I spoke to reinforced my belief that the CWGC deal with 'after death' cases and therefore they have an interest in this case. I suspect that if they find that the person buried next to Syd was not killed on the 29th, they now have a reason to make further enquiries to find out where that person was buried. I got the feeling that the person I spoke to was already in possession of some knowledge of the connection between the casualties of the 29th May and he talked freely about the chance of them being buried next door to each other.

About three months ago, I rang the CWGC and was told very nicely that there was nothing they could do. Perhaps because I was a bit more forceful this time or because I got to speak with a more understanding contact I now get the feeling that something is getting done. Maybe this will all collapse like all the leads we've had up to now but I am, without doubt, more hopeful than I have been for quite a while. Other subjects that came into the conversation were the Missing Men files that surprisingly do not contain the name of Anthony Corkhill. I asked about the Q forms but neither the CWGC or JCCC seemed to know anything about them.

Regards

Tony

[Verrieres]

I realise of course that Anthony and Syd may have been a few miles apart when they died and this could have led to them being buried in different locations but if they were near enough to have been both put into the same ambulance or other means of transport, it would have made sense to bury one next to the other.



Well done Tony! As for the Syd Walt ambulance scenario this is a definate possibility you see I have an eye witness account that Syd was wounded in the lower body and bleeding heavily and was left for the stretcher bearers on the 27th May 1940. If Syd died on the 29th May there must again be a record or medical file relating to it..sound familiar!
Well done again mate
Best

Jim

[teecee1941]

Jim,

point taken and if Syd and Anthony were both wounded and waiting for stretcher bearers on the 27th but did not die until the 29th, they both had two days unaccounted for. I know I keep churning up the same thing time after time but the Germans would not have either or both of them lying around from the 27th to the 29th where they would be tripping people up. They would have either killed them, or took them to hospital. I'm sure I read that account of Syd lying badly wounded and having to be left by his comrades. If he was as badly wounded as I suspect, he would not have lived much past the 27th. This supports the possibility of him being looked after in hospital until his death.

Tony

[dcdl12976]

Well done mate, at the very least you will now get this investigated (even if it gets nowhere) and thats a massive step forward.

[ivor43]

Mornin.

Tony.Great job my friend, not only have you now got someone actually looking, you have, something that may prove important. a contact, not just a name on an email, you actually got to speak to someone. Well done.
But. While i am in agreement with your feelings that they were in Hospital, i am not sure that they would have been together.
This complete lack of Hospital Records is very annoying. They MUST hold the key to the whole thing. However i may be guilty of overestimating the hospital situation.
The German's preferred to use their own aid system rather than use local Hospitals,why, possibly because of the volume of wounded passing through. But what type and degree of wounds did they deal with.
Anthony, appears to have had wounds that RSM Goddard considered not to be serious. so would these be the type of wounds that the Field Aid Post/Hospital would be able to deal with. But Syd's wounds being too severe,and untreatable, would he have been taken elsewhere, to the local Hospital, which may have been more comfortable for a dying man. Possibly, but this does nothing to change my opinion that Anthony would more than likely have been taken to Calonne.




ivor

[teecee1941]

Thanks Dave,

Fingers crossed that it is the start of a spell of good news.

Tony

[teecee1941]

Thank you, Ivor,

It was indeed nice to have someone to talk to who did not immediately dismiss the case out of hand. Lets hope this is the start of a run of good luck.

Tony


Mornin.

Tony.Great job my friend, not only have you now got someone actually looking, you have, something that may prove important. a contact, not just a name on an email, you actually got to speak to someone. Well done.
But. While i am in agreement with your feelings that they were in Hospital, i am not sure that they would have been together.
This complete lack of Hospital Records is very annoying. They MUST hold the key to the whole thing. However i may be guilty of overestimating the hospital situation.
The German's preferred to use their own aid system rather than use local Hospitals,why, possibly because of the volume of wounded passing through. But what type and degree of wounds did they deal with.
Anthony, appears to have had wounds that RSM Goddard considered not to be serious. so would these be the type of wounds that the Field Aid Post/Hospital would be able to deal with. But Syd's wounds being too severe,and untreatable, would he have been taken elsewhere, to the local Hospital, which may have been more comfortable for a dying man. Possibly, but this does nothing to change my opinion that Anthony would more than likely have been taken to Calonne.




ivor

[Verrieres]

Hello Everyone,
Just a very brief update Tony met with his MP who,with his secretary,were familiar with Anthony Corkhills disappearance and fully supportive of Tonys search for answers .The MP has sent off to the MoD requesting the information or to be put in touch with somone who can find it. The initial enquiry was met with our similar ` lets try and put them off again` letter stating very few records had been retained and most had now been destroyed..Rubbish of course.
Tony has spoken with the two representatives in the MoD and CWGC and they confirm they are still looking (which considering they first stated they had nothing to look at in the first instance is quite remarkable!) Its a waiting game.
One interesting point is the letter the MP drafted up in relation to the wearabouts of Forms Q in the letter it stated the ` MI9 form Q` quite correct of course but strangely enough ..we never mention this was MI9s form...a sign that the MP has done some homework on the matter prior to his letter to the MoD? Lets hope so.
A rather disappointing outcome to the Northern Echo line who after showing a little initial interest have cooled with `so busy have not the time to look into this` apparantly its been passed to another section.I have asked them to contact Tony via his email if nothing happens soon then the story will be off to another news paper!
A couple of weeks ago we tracked down a delightful 2DLI veteran celebrating his 100th birthday. Tony had a long chat with him but unfortunately he did not recall Anthony. He did state he doubted Anthony would have been an RSMs batman in war time which bears out the theory that Anthony filled this role pre war possibly in India or the Sudan..did I say a brief update Sorry!
Best

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Jim do you not think the MP may have been aproached over this by someone in authority in the MOD before you and Tony got in touch, the fact he put the correct designation on the request would seem to suggest that just maybe he had. Or of course he just may have had a background in that sort of area and have known anyway. Nice to here about the Veteran i assume from this Anthony was in the Army during the times that the Battalion was serving in either of these areas ?. I have an idea that he may well be correct in saying that the RSM would not have had a batman during the war even many officers had to do without so far as i can make out (could be wrong on that though) after all the men had far more important things to do than making tea and maintaining the officers (and RSM,s) uniforms etc like fighting the enemy and staying alive.

Probobly wrong on this but thats my feelings for what they are worth.

Cheers now

Dave

[ivor43]

Hi Guy's
Dave i have a suspicion that you may be right. I would expect the MP to have had a briefing from someone in authority over this. Hence his knowledge.

Jim.With regard to Anthony no longer, officially, being the RSM's batman. i would agree, but, is there a possibility that he may have, unofficially, continued to be. What i was wondering is, if the story of Anthony being a DR was correct would this post have allowed him to continue, in some limited way, with his previous duties. I am assuming that a DR would have been, generally, somewhere close to a HQ where it might be reasonable to expect the RSM to be.
Just a thought.


ivor

[dcdl12976]

Ivor i suspect we may be taking the term batman to literaly it may be that RSM,s clerk would be a more appropriate term for Anthonys duties. Just a thought mate.

[ivor43]

Dave.
While i accept your point. Would it really change my idea. Would it have been possible for him to have carried out the RSM's Clerical Duties on a temp basis and still be a DR.

ivor

[dcdl12976]

Certainly Ivor indeed DR may well of been part of his duties as a clerk.

[Verrieres]

Hi Everyone,
What ever duties Anthony was performing that day as John pointed out a while back is not (yet) our main concern as the facts that we have show the RSM and Anthony in the same area hence the meeting on the canal bank.
In relation to the MP it was Tony who met him and Tony stated they were up to speed on the matter.In relation to the MI9 reference I believe that someone has briefed him yet the MoD and CWGC still deny any knowledge of Forms Q so who advise the MP about them?

A further update for you chaps Tony applied and received a copy of Anthonys death certificate cause of death ;-DIED of Wounds (Not believed to have Died of Wounds!!) Date of death 29th May 1940.....29th MAY 1940...bear this in mind people because you are not going to belive the next bit!

Tonys CWGC contact has been in touch in relation to the unknown soldier next to Syd Walt..their enquiries have established that this lad is a BRITISH ARMY CORPORAL who died sometime in MAY they do not have the exact date of death (Not bad going as they told me they did not hold records of unknowns yet they know this lad was a CORPORAL? why not AN UNKNOWN BRITISH CORPORAL KNOWN UNTO GOD HEADSTONE?) Moving on the CWGC can confirm only one soldier of the DURHAM LIGHT INFANTRY died on the 29th May 1940 Pte Syd Walt???????????????? Wheres Anthony then as its now established on his Death Certificate he too died on the 29th MAY 1940 even their own website states the 29th MAY 1940
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2771233/CORKHILL,%20ANTHONY

The CWGC update is amaturish in the extreme it contradicts its own website and to me it seems to have been passed to a junior clerk who has done a little more than a standard search passed it to his boss who has then read it out as it is written not bothering to check the information and hoping again this will go away! It won`t when will they get the message they are simply adding fuel to our fire?
The MP seems no fool will he accept this explaination hopefully not.

Best

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Jim, from my experience the problem with the MOD may be down to the fact that we are haing to lose one third of full time workers therefore policy is to not deal with anything they consider unimportant. This may be very important to Anthony but less so to the MOD.
Other factor may well be that many posts in the department are now filled by Agency or short term workers who with the best will in the world will not have the knowledge of records, forms and proceedures etc that full time long serving civil servants would, in my own area for instance over 60% of people fall into the Agency or short term workers and the few full time workers are now fielding most queries. This doesnt excuse the fact they say they have no knowledge of Q forms but it may explain why they are saying this.
My belief is that this problem is caused by government cut backs in the department and employing agency workers who know they can be told we dont need you tomorrow at any time. Not sure about the CWGC though it may be they have the same problem.

Sorry but this still smacks of a cover up for some reason.

The death cert is interesting as has been noted elsewhere saying DIED OF WOUNDS would suggest that someone witnessed his death and this is i believe the crucial area for us. As for who has advised the MP about the M19 Q form obviously some one higher up in the MOD IS taking an interest in this because it would in my opinion have been a senior civil servant advisor (or a VERY senior military officer). Was the MP told of this before Anthony contacted him personaly or after because if it was before then once more an attempted cover up is suggested to me.


Cheers

Dave

[Verrieres]

Jim, from my experience the problem with the MOD may be down to the fact that we are haing to lose one third of full time workers therefore policy is to not deal with anything they consider unimportant. This may be very important to Anthony but less so to the MOD.
Other factor may well be that many posts in the department are now filled by Agency or short term workers who with the best will in the world will not have the knowledge of records, forms and proceedures etc that full time long serving civil servants would, in my own area for instance over 60% of people fall into the Agency or short term workers and the few full time workers are now fielding most queries. This doesnt excuse the fact they say they have no knowledge of Q forms but it may explain why they are saying this.
My belief is that this problem is caused by government cut backs in the department and employing agency workers who know they can be told we dont need you tomorrow at any time. Not sure about the CWGC though it may be they have the same problem.

Sorry but this still smacks of a cover up for some reason.

The death cert is interesting as has been noted elsewhere saying DIED OF WOUNDS would suggest that someone witnessed his death and this is i believe the crucial area for us. As for who has advised the MP about the M19 Q form obviously some one higher up in the MOD IS taking an interest in this because it would in my opinion have been a senior civil servant advisor (or a VERY senior military officer). Was the MP told of this before Anthony contacted him personaly or after because if it was before then once more an attempted cover up is suggested to me.


Cheers

Dave

Morning Dave,
To be fair to the MoD they are very quiet on the matter I believe the only `info` recieved directly from them was the `brush off letter` since then Tony has spoken with the contact who as far as we know is `still looking into it`. The latest info is from the CWGC who throughout this have constantly denied holding anything! The information or lack of it concerning the `unknowns`,to me anyway, is unacceptable during and after the war the War Office instigated `Searcher Parties for those unaccounted for they produced `Missing Men files` for EVERY regiment including the DLI yet Anthony appears in none of them..again I`m repeating what I`ve stated from the beginning and what I know a lot of you agree with ,,,why Anthony was never featured was he was never missing he was `DEAD ,DIED OF WOUNDS 29th MAY 1940` We realised this a long time ago so why can they not see it and concentrate on finding answers not repeatedly going over old ground.
Instead of stating wrongly that only 1 DLI soldier died on the 29th May 1940 why do they not look at their records to see if by any chance they hold a record of one of these unfortunate souls having died on the 29th May 1940? Or another line of enquiry would be if Syd,having been wounded on the 27th like Anthony died in a hospital and which one then by checking with these records perhaps a second casualty having died on the same day could perhaps be identified?
Another dissappointing `error` again from the CWGC is contained in Tonys most recent reply where the contact stated,and I`m quoting direct from the reply letter here

The cemetery records also detail several further unknowns with a May 1940 date of death in Row A, Plot 3 and there are a total of 50 unknowns buried at St. Venant.

I can also confirm that Sydney Walt is the only DLI casualty with a date of death of 29/5/1940, although as indicated above several unknowns have been allocated a May 1940 date of death.


50 Unknowns.........................50 Unknowns.............where have the other ten appeared from as John and myself worked out the full list from the CWGC cemetery plan! Below is another quote this time from the CWGC site itself notice the glaring error!

During the 1939-45 War, St. Venant was the centre of heavy fighting when delaying actions covered the withdrawal of the British Expeditionary Force to the coast. In fact British troops continued fighting at St. Venant after the evacuation of Dunkirk, and 90 or more were buried in a mass grave in a field at St. Venant. The 1939-45 burials are in Plots III and IV.

There are 253 Commonwealth burials of the 1914-18 war, 10 of which are unidentified, and 177 of the 1939-1945 war, 40 of which are unidentified, in this site. The 1939-45 total includes the 90 originally buried in a mass grave and an officer who is commemorated by a special memorial inscribed "Believed to be".


So now we have had quoted wrongly `only one DLI died on the 29th May Syd Walt` We are unaware of any mass grave at St Venant` `There are 50 unknowns` is it incompetance or just plain laziness? If you are right Dave and this is unimportant to the MoD or is being dealt with by people on short term contracts I have this to say `This country should honour its fallen,sadly it does not the organisations there to commemorate them produce range upon range of glossy brochures and forget their core responsibilities.Those on short contracts would they really not bother? If so then they are,again in my opinion ,in the wrong job! Every November this country makes a great fuss at the Cenotaph `remembering` but do we remember for the right reasons not if we as a country do not support families like the Corkhills whose sons,brothers,uncles grandfathers have given all ,and are then forgotten or not deemed important enough for the relevant organisations to `bother themselves` with outstanding issues. Sad

Best

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Hi Jim i agree with most of what you say, however ref the CWGC it may be that like every department you get a dfifferent person every time you make an enquiry which means that if they dont talk to each other you WILL get the same ground covered every time. Many of the short term or agency workers may well not even know what records they do hold let alone where they are or how to sort through them. Sadly this is a result of government policy to get rid of long serving and experienced civil servants in favour of workers who can be dropped at will rather than going through legalities (its cheaper for one thing ie no redundancy payments, they cannot be in a union so no strikes and till recently less leave allowance and far poorer terms and conditions. There are from personal experience more Agency and short term workers with the attitude of why bother when we may not be here tomorrow than ones who genuinly want to do a good job, i suppose you cant really blame them they are in it for the money however short term that is (personaly i would ban the parasitic Agencies since they are living of other folks misery) but sadly many firms will now only take on workers through an agency.

As you say nothing seems to fit with the CWGC, s answers, also i am still wary about the apparent lack of help from the MOD when it seems obvious someone high up has been speaking to Anthonys local MP and given him information that they deny exists i will repeat this smacks of a cover up to me.

Lets face it mate the government makes all these statements about looking after our warriors but this is in my view crocodile tears and i honestly dont believe they care at all. Lastly it is indeed sad that this state of affairs exists but over centuries it has ever been so.
All you can do is keep pushing in any direction you can think off mate and i wish you the best of luck

Cheers

Dave

[Verrieres]

Hello,
i know Tony is going to come along and add something shortly.In relation to the staffing and enquiries every CWGC enquiry is given a unique reference number to which is attached the information provided by whichever customer service representative was dealing with it so each time Tony has enquired even if he got someone completely different they would know exactly what had been passed previously.Short time,part time or whatever supervisors know the procedure if people were there to simply draw a wage then these people would not be in a job very long.The CWGC have a charter they have a code of practice but for as yet unknown reasons they are playing games not only with us but a lot more people and have done for years now.
We are constantly receiving totally false reports,information and mis information from all parties,how do we know this? because we are not your average `Joe Public` making an enquiry for a family tree. `Joe Public` makes an enquiry he is told by the CWGC or the Ministry of Defence "Your relative died..blah blah blah..in the battle of...Blah Blah Blah" and `Joe Public` believes this,why should`nt they after all the CWGC and the MoD are respected organisations.I am sure they receive more `Joe Public` requests than those from people like ourselves who have a little background knowledge so the CWGC and MoD send us the same error filled replies which we in turn question and question again but they keep rehashing the same old rubbish because in the vast majority of cases they either convince the enquirer that they have made a mistake or people simply give up and cease pestering them. Its tried and tested but in some cases there has been break throughs ie Tom Rodgers.
On the the CWGC site I failed to spot a glaring error which thankfully John picked up on it refers to this;-

In fact British troops continued fighting at St. Venant after the evacuation of Dunkirk,
No they did not so why has this been added? Perhaps this does not refer to the battle of St Venant at all? I believe the CWGC are refering to an action over 130 miles away at St Valery en Caux involving the 51st Highland Division who were indeed involved in fighting after the Dunkirk evacuation.
In relation to Forms Q the MoD and CWGC are `unfamiliar` with these forms ..as are the National Archives whose own researchers are `unfamiliar`with the term Form Q indeed the MoD in Whitehall wrote to Tony and said the only WW2 records of note they still retain are service records the other records being disposed of or destroyed a long time ago..do we believe them? `Joe Public` would I`m sure ,but we are not `Joe Public` and thank fully John has came up trumps again when he unearthed TS26/88 Repatriate statements on Form Q: Germany! Where is the France file hidden? Further down we find another file TS 26/224 which deals with Alleged German War Crimes;- La Bassee? Can they deny the existance of Form Q now ..of course they will!

Best

Jim

[Baconwallah]

I don't think there is a special 'France' file, Jim. There are only the "Germany, 'Japan' and 'Italy' files, so I would assume 'Germany' has to be read as 'The war with Germany'.

John

[Verrieres]

I don't think there is a special 'France' file, Jim. There are only the "Germany, 'Japan' and 'Italy' files, so I would assume 'Germany' has to be read as 'The war with Germany'.

John

Hello John,
Thanks for the clarification I was assuming they were the geographical theatres of war and not the actual `enemy` theatres .Cheers
Best
Jim

[ivor43]

hi all
.i am still in Cardiff at the moment on a new laptop so dont have access to notes. but i am sure that the ref that fighting continued in the area after Dunkirk.is in an official history, and may have come from
Frenchmans account. will check when i get back later today.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

but i am sure that the ref that fighting continued in the area after Dunkirk.is in an official history, and may have come from
Frenchmans account.ivor

Sorry, Ivor. The answers are:

No, it is not.
No it did not.

It seems Mr Andrews is confusing St Venant with St Valery-en-Caux, where the Highland Division fought on after the Dunkirk evac.

John

[ivor43]

Hi all.
First, Jim. An interesting post and i agree with most of what you have said. However there a number of points i am not sure about.
First, as you say we are not '' Joe Public '' and are not going to go away without answers. But in quoting the Tom Rogers example as a break through i am not so sure. As i understand this the Rogers Family were, like us, getting nowhere with MoD/CWGC until they were put in touch with M Faivre who appears to hold records that are NOT accepted by MoD/CWGC.
Now in order to investigate this further they would have had to accept the French files which appear to be from the 41/42 Field Grave Clearances, which they will not do. So in order to satisfy the Rogers Family have they allowed them a ''Buried near this Spot'' Memorial stone. This solved the problem.
But in our case that will not work so they appear to be somewhat more cooperative it is M Faivre that is not. Odd.
However i have a feeling that, in part, they may be telling the truth. I suspect that, for a couple of reasons, they may not have all the info, one being their not accepting the French Files. But, as i have said before, the facts as i understand them leads me to believe that Anthony is not in St Venant but in Calonne.
My 2nd point is with regard to this report that British troops were fighting in St Venant after Dunkirk i believe would have been quite possible. After the German breakthrough at Robecq the Germans pushed rapidly East and North to isolate Dunkirk. This i believe left a number of British troops isolated to the south of the Germans. would it not therefore be possible that they would then head for the St Venant area in trying to get to the coast.
The CWGC list for St Venant shows 15 men died between 30/5 and 1/6, OK i accept this may have been due to wounds but who knows.


Ivor

[dcdl12976]

i must admit i have wondered about some of the dates myself Ivor but i put it down to mistakes by grave registration or as you say died later of wounds.

[Verrieres]

Hi all.
First, Jim. An interesting post and i agree with most of what you have said. However there a number of points i am not sure about.
First, as you say we are not '' Joe Public '' and are not going to go away without answers. But in quoting the Tom Rogers example as a break through i am not so sure. As i understand this the Rogers Family were, like us, getting nowhere with MoD/CWGC until they were put in touch with M Faivre who appears to hold records that are NOT accepted by MoD/CWGC.
Now in order to investigate this further they would have had to accept the French files which appear to be from the 41/42 Field Grave Clearances, which they will not do. So in order to satisfy the Rogers Family have they allowed them a ''Buried near this Spot'' Memorial stone. This solved the problem.
But in our case that will not work so they appear to be somewhat more cooperative it is M Faivre that is not. Odd.
However i have a feeling that, in part, they may be telling the truth. I suspect that, for a couple of reasons, they may not have all the info, one being their not accepting the French Files. But, as i have said before, the facts as i understand them leads me to believe that Anthony is not in St Venant but in Calonne.
My 2nd point is with regard to this report that British troops were fighting in St Venant after Dunkirk i believe would have been quite possible. After the German breakthrough at Robecq the Germans pushed rapidly East and North to isolate Dunkirk. This i believe left a number of British troops isolated to the south of the Germans. would it not therefore be possible that they would then head for the St Venant area in trying to get to the coast.
The CWGC list for St Venant shows 15 men died between 30/5 and 1/6, OK i accept this may have been due to wounds but who knows.


Ivor

Hello Ivor,

The Rodgers family had what we seek the eyewitness account of Toms death from Pte Luke Bowden who saw Tom fall at the `other` bridge.The CWGC have the final say and this was swayed by the eyewitness report as the M .Faivre records could not be matched (according to `In Search of Tom`) with those of the MoD.As a result of the mis match Tom was denied a headstone over what M.Faivre identified as Toms actual grave. We find the eyewitness report of Anthonys death on the 29th May 1940 we find where hes buried.St Venant or Calonne we do not know but I still believe hes in St Venant,personal gut feeling nothing more.
The MoD and CWGC have not helped in the least to date? I`m not sure where you see they have M.Faivre has stated he knows nothing and the Cwgc and MoD continuously say they have nothing. What we are getting is mis-information there was no action in St Venant post Dunkirk (Today the CWGC agreed to re-evaluate their information regarding this yet its been on their website for years if John had not spotted it would it ever have been questioned?) this refers to St Valery en Caux which was where the Rodgers family were originally told Tom was killed(coincidence)
The dates quoted for men killed `between dates` bear no mystery these refer to last seen to body discovered these are assumed dates.Anthony Corkhill does not have an assumed date ,originally he did but this was ammended to 29th MAY 1940.There is no mystery regarding the date of death our mystery is where is the account of Anthonys death which enabled the date to be confirmed.Pension date 29th MAY 1940,Non Effective discharge DIED IN FRANCE 29th MAY 1940,Service records DIED 29th MAY 1940, CWGC Debt of Honour 29th MAY 1940.Landforces British Army DIED of WOUNDS 29th MAY 1940 and now Death Certificate Died of Wounds 29th MAY 1940 (Theres others)
The MoD remain silent whilst the CWGC state only one DLI casualty for the 29th MAY 1940..WRONG! Tony has questioned the latest update,I say update because it contained nothing new and nothing of relevance so we cannot call it information.
They replied with an admission that they are looking into their claims regarding the action post Dunkirk,they also admit they meant only one known DLI casualty in St Venant (Syd Walt which we told them) rather than a single DLI casualty that day they further state there were actually 7 DLI recorded as died on 29th MAY 1940 including Anthony. This is also wrong as there were 8 but we do not need to know this as only three were from the 2nd DLI , one Pte Clews died at home in Newcastle,so that gives us two Syd Walt and Anthony Corkhill (The other 5 were from the 8th,9th and 11th DLI fighting in another area) .The question of the number of unknowns also came into question there are 40 the CWGC quoted 50 theie explaination 10 are WW1 burials again we do not need to know this So why are we being given updates with even less information than we originally supplied them? The answer, this is how they normally respond to `Joe Public`tried and tested.
UPDATE
The CWGC had said a Corporal rests in the `unknown` grave next to Syd Walt they know he died in May but cannot confirm a date,strange as they have during past enquiries denied holding information on `unknown` soldiers,Tony to his credit has questioned this and been told today....we do hold records of all of the unknowns but information is limited (Hurrrrah are we getting somewhere)

Who filed the report confirming Anthony Corkhill died on the 29th May 1940, if his last official contact/sighting was on the 27th May 1940 by the RSM then this would have been used as an assumed date of death it was not,Anthony was never classed as missing he does not feature in any missing men file,there was no (known) correspondence his fate was known he is recorded as dead on the casualty list even before Syd Walt`s death was relayed back to the War Office even the Red Cross never enquired on behalf of the War Office(They made an enquiry at the request of the family).The Missing Men files, which I possess, have literally hundreds of enquiries sent out to comrades serving all around the world in an effort to determine the fates of Anthonys fellow Durham Light Infantrymen missing during the period 10th May-Evacuation,hundreds of letters and replies but not one solitary letter enquiring about Anthony Corkhill ....why?....Its my honest belief he was never missing !

Best
Jim

[ivor43]

Hi all.
I will not make any comment on this,yet, but this link makes interesting reading.

http://books.google.com.mt/books?id=ZM71HK2ysoAC&pg=PA293&lpg=PA293&dq=St+Venant+may+1940&source=bl&ots=KTTQ_pcwOt&sig=1MBMgJsffK1G9U5VZGwpK_nIR4Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=d1KBUe-vKITZ4AT1qYHIAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CGEQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=St%20Venant%20may%201940&f=false (http://books.google.com.mt/books?id=ZM71HK2ysoAC&pg=PA293&lpg=PA293&dq=St+Venant+may+1940&source=bl&ots=KTTQ_pcwOt&sig=1MBMgJsffK1G9U5VZGwpK_nIR4Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=d1KBUe-vKITZ4AT1qYHIAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CGEQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=St%20Venant%20may%201940&f=false)

A somewhat different version of events.Hmm.

I think the author of the book from which this is taken, Dunkirk: Fight to the Last Man.needs no introduction.


ivor

[dcdl12976]

So the brigade commander put the brigade on the south of the canal instead of the north which seems to back up what the FOO told my dad about the artillery strike though of course it relates to the 27th where as dad said they were hit on the 24th and the date of death of his mate says the same.

[ivor43]

Jim.
Interesting post.
But let us break this down into something more manageable.
On 27th May Anthony is seen, by a reliable witness, with wounds that are not thought to be serious. at a position somewhere along the Lys Canal possibly somewhere between St Venant and St Floris. Awaiting treatment from a German Medical Aid Team. As he was unable to walk at that time this treatment would presumably have required Hospitalisation.
Where ? Would the German aid post have had the facilities to deal with this or would he have been taken to the local hospital. Where, St Venant or Calonne.
Whichever, he was KNOWN, as it would appear that a record must have been started in his name.
On 29th he is Certified Dead. How or why is really not important at the moment. What is important is the fact that whatever this documentation, when it is made available to the British Authorities, it is accepted as proof of Date of Death. Do we know when this amendment was made?
Now, with regard to this documentation. Whilst i obviously do not know what applied in wartime conditions, in normal circumstances the only persons authorised to sign a Death Cert are, a Doctor, a Pathologist or a Coroner. In this case if Anthony was in Hospital then obviously a Doctor would have been available, so a Legal Death Cert could have been issued, which would have been acceptable to our authorities.
I believe you are right, Anthony was never missing, while he was alive.


ivor

[dcdl12976]

Not sure about France but in the USA. In Texas, for example, a justice of the peace can sign.

It may be that a JP can sign the certificate in France as well, just a thought.

Cheers

Dave

[dcdl12976]

I have been trying to find the !st Btn Berkshies war diary for the time, i believe i may have found it. What has happened is that for some reason it is not in the search criteria on the Wadrobes site, however on going to the war diaries purchase page there is one advertised as the 1/4th Btn however when you look at the picture it states 1st AND 4th Btn (so far as i am aware the 1/4th Btn only existed during the 1st WW). So i have sent for a copy to see if im correct you never know there just may be some comments that could assist in unraveling this query.

Oh by the way the 1/4th Btn was my Grandfathers unit in WW1 and contains the following :

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-GB</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="&#45;-"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> 1916-06-19

<tbody>


Regiment.
1/4th Royal Berkshire





Location
France, Hebuterne





Entry
Working parties as on the 18th. A and C Companies relieved B and D Coys by 7.0p.m. Divisional Cards were received from the GOC for Distinguished Conduct in the Field on the night of the 15/16th May - names below. Their guns were more active all the day, chiefly 15c.m., and their machine guns hardly stopped firing all night on our front. Weather:- Capt R G Attride 2/Lt H M Wells Lt D J Ward 2/Lt G S Field 2443 Sergt Pitman, C 2171 L/Sergt Page, A 2646 L/C Cooke, W 3051 Pte Drewitt, A J 2834 Pte Shaw, E Remarks Casualties:- 1 Died of wounds, 1 wounded.


</tbody>


1916-08-24

<tbody>


Regiment.
1/4th Royal Berkshire





Location
France, Ovillers





Entry
Companies were practiced in Bomb throwing etc. in the morning. Digging parties of 75 each from B and D Coys were found, leaving at 9.15p.m. for the work in the front line. Owing to the continual shelling all night by the enemy not much work was possible. Weather:- a fine day. Military Medals for immediate awards granted to Corporal RICE: Corporal COOKE: L/Corporal RUSSELL: Private MITCHELL: Private SMITH.


</tbody>
Cheers now

Dave<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="59" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Table Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Placeholder Text"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Revision"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="List Paragraph"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]-->

[dcdl12976]

I knpow this isnt strictly relevant for which i appologise folks but i have just ordered a book which may have some info "The History of The Royal Berkshire Regiment 1920-1947" by Gordon Blight. It gives an day by day account of the withdrawl of the Berkshire Regiment from La Tombe in Belgium through to Dunkirk and even describes how at St Venant the battalion HQ was attacked on 27th May 1940. you never know we may gain a snippet or two from this.

Cheers

Dave

[teecee1941]

Good evening, gents. It's a while since I was on here but I know that Jim has kept you well up to date with what is, or isn't happening. At the moment I am waiting for a development in connection with the MP's investigations. I've had two or three contacts with the CWGC and they say they will be back in touch. I think this is unlikely because my last email to them did not show them in the best light. They told me that there was only one casualty in Saint Venant on the 29th May but we know that there were two, Anthony Corkhill and Syd Walt. I'll wait a while to see if they get back to me before contacting them again. About three or four weeks ago I had the delight and privilege to speak with 100 year old DLI veteran Arthur Willis of Eston, near Middlesbrough. Arthur was amazingly lucid and comprehensible for a man of his age and we talked for a good while. It was an enjoyable experience. Although Arthur had been in the St Venant area at the same time as Anthony, unfortunately the two had never met. Coincidentally, Arthur had done a bit of boxing during his posting to France, as had Anthony. Thanks again to all who have taken the time to read and be involved in this thread. I am still very hopeful for a successful result.

[Verrieres]

In addition to Tonys enquiries I made an approach to the CWGC in relation to the circumstances/place of death of Pte Syd Walt ,a different contact but a `Joe Public` answer..this is what I asked................

Could you please let me know if you hold information relating to where Pte Syd Walt of The 2nd Durham Light Infantry died I am aware through eyewitness testimony that he was wounded two days earlier on the 27th May 1940. Do you know where he was when he died on the 29th May 1940.(Hospital etc)I am aware he was wounded near St Venant and rests in the St Venant Communal Cemetery at that location.Thank you for your consideration on this matter

Today the reply was ;-

Thank you for your e-mail of 21st March 2013 regarding Private Sydney Walt.<O:P></O:P>
Unfortunatelty I am unable to assist you with your request. This is because the Commission does not hold details regarding the circumstances of death of a casualty. The details we do hold I give below:-<O:P></O:P>
Casualty Details<O:P></O:P>
Rank: Private<O:P></O:P>
Surname: WALT<O:P></O:P>
Forenames: SYDNEY<O:P></O:P>
Service No: 4449017<O:P></O:P>
Age: 26<O:P></O:P>
Unit: 2nd Bn.<O:P></O:P>
Regiment: Durham Light Infantry<O:P></O:P>
Date of Death: 29 May 1940<O:P></O:P>
Additional Information<O:P></O:P>
Son of Thomas William Walt, and of Florence Beatrice Walt, of Hutton Magna, Yorkshire.<O:P></O:P>
Commemoration<O:P></O:P>
ST. VENANT COMMUNAL CEMETERY, Pas de Calais, France, Plot 3. Row A. Grave 20.

I am sorry I have been unable to help yopu with your request.<O:P></O:P>

Yours sincerely<O:P></O:P>



All of that information is available on the website,they are sticking to the basics whats it going to take to change that ? or do we believe they hold nothing else? If they do`nt who does?
Remember what proof they require in relation to the erection of Headstones,the proof beyond doubt that the graves in question do infact hold the men that are inscribed on that stone then ask yourself based on the information they claim to hold would that be enough to satisfy any of their own criteria?

Best

Jim

[dcdl12976]

So once again they insist they have nothing more than what is on the website (and have claimed they didnt know about some of that) strikes me they just are not looking any further than there e-mails. I wonder sometimes is this because they cant be bothered or do they have some information they either dont want to release or are being told not to release. To be honest this stinks of either inefficiency or a cover up for some reason. Of course it could just be plain bone idleness on the part of the clerks answering the E-Mails.
Strikes me this is something for the MP who may just get them to look further than there noses.

Cheers
Dave

PS one of the books (The History of The Royal Berkshire Regiment 1920-1947) has been despatched and so should be here tomorrow or Friday. I dont hold out much hope but maybe there will be something in there we can use.

[dcdl12976]

Ok folks here is the first part of details of the Royal Berks at St Venant, nothing of help to Anthony im afraid but interesting (to me at anyrate).

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-GB</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> MAY 24th
It was not until the morning of the 24th that the 1st battalion clambered once more into buses and sped by way of Genech and Seclin to La Bassee. The road had been bombed, and was congested with traffic and swarms of refugees moving in all directions. After waiting for two hours at La Fosse, north of La Bassee , they were told that the Germans were already near Merville ahead of them, but that they should continue there move, protected by their carrier platoon and seize the bridges over the Aire canal at Guarbecque south west of St Venant .
After passing through Mervill, where the situation was obscure and the confusion considerable the bus column came to a stop and the battalion spent the tail end of the night resting where they were.

May 25th
In the morning the move was continued by two routes; one direct to Guabecque by way of St Venant, and the other direct to Haverskerque, a village between the Lys and the Foret de Nieppe. The information given to the battalion belittled the likelihood of much organise opposition, in the way that official uncertainty often adopts. It was not long before the southern column directed to St Venant had every reason to distrust it. The bridge over the Lys had been partially destroyed, and its defenders lay dead by the roadside. Hasty repairs enabled the troops to pass over. Soon after German artillery opened a heavy fire and several casualties at once ensued among whom Captain E.S Hall was killed. As the companies advanced towards Guarbeque heavy machine gun fire directed from a factory south of the Aire canal prevented further lateral movement without the weight and range that could only come from artillery support. This was not available. By nightfall the battalion held forward of the long bend of the Lys canal between St Venant and the Forest, with battalion headquarters in Bas Hamel and C Company in reserve behind Haverskerque. On the right was a week pioneer battalion and on the left the 2nd Durham Light Infantry.

i will try to do some more over the weekend if people are interested.

Commanding officer Lieutenant Colonel M.C Dempsey MC later General Sir M.C Dempsey K.C.B, K.B.E, D.S.O, M.C, A.D.C

Cheers

Dave

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="59" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Table Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Placeholder Text"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Revision"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="List Paragraph"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]-->

[dcdl12976]

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-GB</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="&#45;-"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> May 26th
The battalion remained in the same position the next day, undisturbed except by shelling and suffering some casualties in the process, among whom were Lt L.J.L Hill and Captain C.N. B Dawson both wounded. Although the latter officer could no longer walk he insisted on remaining at his post being one of the few officers left. Platoon Sergeant Major Harvey now became commander of D company. (The rank held was introduced shortly before the war with the object of securing young, tactically trained leaders to meet the shortage of junior officers. These warrant officers Class III of the battalion amply justified there selection but the experiment ceased in the Army in 1943- with the retention of rank only by those men holding it.)
In contrast to the comparative peace of Sunday -not to be confused with the sabbatical calm at home- the night that followed was full of incident. Parties of enemy had crossed the Lys with roving tanks sometime previously; they now began to interfere in the rear area of the battalion, blocking the road back to Haverskerque. Sgt T. Williams was sent with the carrier platoon to tidy up the position. They soon came into contact with enemy armour and in the fight that followed several carriers were destroyed. The road was never the less secured.
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="59" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Table Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Placeholder Text"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Revision"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="List Paragraph"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]-->

[dcdl12976]

Heres the last part folks all its done is show the situation from the point of view of the third battalion in the brigade unfortunatlely.

Hope you find it interesting though.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-GB</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="&#45;-"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> May 27th
On the following morning the tension increased and enemy attacks became general everywhere. Battalion Headquarters itself was attacked at dawn and in the dog-fight that followed clerks, orderlies and batmen became closely engaged. The second in command Major H. Rew organised a successful counter attack and restored the situation with the same tolerant nonchalance that attends manoeuvres when the august of a unit suffer indignities at the hands of an enterprising but slightly too exuberant an enemy. The enemy attack finally subsided with the arrival of the reserve company. A discreet battalion withdrawal under heavy fire followed.

The battalion next halted on a position east of Haverskerque behind the Lys canal where it covered the withdrawal of the brigade transport into the forest. As they turned to go two particularly large enemy tanks appeared and opened machine gun fire at the scattered parties of men- they were now about a company strong crossing an open stretch of ground before reaching the leafy embrasures of the forest. Astonishingly few casualties were sustained but everyone there had reason to congratulate themselves that these tanks were handled with considerable discretion otherwise the encounter was likely to have had a different outcome. After emerging from the protecting trees they were again met by fire and luckily again it had little effect but the situation was rapidly becoming very unpleasant. The battalion moved on under orders for Cuadesqure two miles away where they became concentrated within the brigade and spent an uneventful night. There total strength then was twelve officers, 200 men and six serviceable Bren guns.

May 28th
That morning the 1st battalion marched away from the trampled banks of the Lys the torn woods and the harbouring village of Caudesqure.
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="59" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Table Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Placeholder Text"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Revision"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="List Paragraph"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]-->

[dcdl12976]

"I have been trying to find the !st Btn Berkshies war diary for the time, i believe i may have found it. What has happened is that for some reason it is not in the search criteria on the Wadrobes site, however on going to the war diaries purchase page there is one advertised as the 1/4th Btn however when you look at the picture it states 1st AND 4th Btn".

I was quite correct in this because i recceived the book today and it covers the war diary from 22nd August 1939 to 29th April 1940 and a summary of events from 10th May 1940 to 30th June 1940. Much is the same as in the other book however there is a little more info not in that one nothing to help us with Anthony sadly so sorry folks i guess i didnt really expect there to be anything.

Cheers

Dave

[teecee1941]

Dave, thank you for your effort. Like you say, it is maybe not relevant to the case of Anthony but interesting all the same. I am always pleased to read anything that concerns Saint Venant. It is only by investigating as much as possible about the events of May 1940 that one day, a breakthrough will be staring us in the face. I never get tired of saying thank you to anyone who is good enough to spend any effort towards bringing a successful conclusion to the mystery of my uncle's disappearance. Thanks again. Tony

[dcdl12976]

Tony, thanks for that, always nice to be appreciated.
As soon as i can i will post the aditional information from the war diary that is not in the other book.

Cheers

Dave

[dcdl12976]

He He He just spoke to dad and he wants me to research a Major REW who was O/C of A company (dads company) believe it or not he only had one arm yet was a champion pistol shot !!!!!, im hoping to speak face to face in a couple of days so i may get some more snippets. Dad believes he ended up a Brigadier.

Dave

[ivor43]

dave.
the following may be of some help, if you dont already know of it.

http://www.unithistories.com/officers/Army_officers_W02.html (http://www.unithistories.com/officers/Army_officers_W02.html)


ivor

[dcdl12976]

Thanks Ivor i shall get down to researching the name for him as soon as i can.

[dcdl12976]

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-GB</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="&#45;-"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Folks, here is a few additions from the war diary that either are not in the other books account or differ from that account.

May 25th
The information given to the battalion about the Germans suggested that they were only parachute troops and motor cycle troops and the battalion was really engaged on a mopping up operation that should not prove difficult.
There was one 25mm anti tank gun in support of C Company to the north of Haverskerque and to the right in the Foret De Nieppe was a weak pioneer battalion of the York’s and Lancs.

26th May
A quiet day with little shelling. Our own artillery could do little in reply as their CP,s were unable to get through by WT.

27th May
Battalion HQ attacked at dawn from the left flank, Brigade Commander ordered C company forward to make a bridgehead at the Haverskerque footbridge make touch with battalion HQ and give the battalion O/C verbal orders to withdraw over the canal. The attack subsided with the arrival of C company and withdrawal began with the aid of two machine guns from the Masnchesters, C company covered the withdrawal and was then withdrawn in turn.

That’s about it folks. Except for a map of the route took through the area between 24th and 28th May.

Cheers

Dave
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="59" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Table Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Placeholder Text"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Revision"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="List Paragraph"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]-->

[Verrieres]

He He He just spoke to dad and he wants me to research a Major REW who was O/C of A company (dads company) believe it or not he only had one arm yet was a champion pistol shot !!!!!, im hoping to speak face to face in a couple of days so i may get some more snippets. Dad believes he ended up a Brigadier.

Dave

Hello Dave,
Thank you very much for posting the information it is of interest and helps set the scene remembering there were three battalions plus support troops helps too at St Venant. In regard to your enquiry re Major Rew heres a couple of snippets hope they help Major Horace Edward Rew, The Royal Berkshire Regiment (Princess Charlotte of
Wales's) was awarded a DSO for operations with the BEF in 1940 London Gazette Issue 34893 published on the 9 July 1940THE LONDON GAZETTE, 1 FEBRUARY, 1929 publishes an announcement that Flying Officer Horace Edward REW (Lt.,

R. Berks Regt.) relinquishes his temporary commission on return to his Army duty dated 27th Jan. 1929
The London Gazette dated 11th September 1918 gives the appointment of the following Lieutenants into the
R. Berks. R.
—Frederick William Paines.
Horace Edward Rew.
Ivor Thomas Clement.
Herbert Walter Gabbett Arthy.
His DSO citation is at the National Archives Ref WO 373/15/84,he served in India in 1932 so will be on the medal roll for the India General Service Medal as well.

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Thanks a lot JIm, i havent got round to checking the Major out yet because im busy with another enquiry with reference to my grandfather in WW2.

Cheers

Dave

[dcdl12976]

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-GB</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="&#45;-"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> A little strange some of the movements of the battalion on the 24th May “After 2 hours at La Posse information was received that the enemy was in the vicinity of Merville and the battalion was ordered to move by MT with carrier protection and seize the bridges over the Lys (AIRE ?) Canal in the neibourhood of Guarbeque. The move was carried out as far as the other side of Merville whence the advance guard of carriers was held up and the battalion spent the night”

A couple of questions here.
1. Why did the battalion move NNW to Merville from La Fosse instead of moving almost directly West to Guarbeque past Robecq?. The war diary states there were only three maps available for the area at the time. Have a look at the map and you will see what I mean. Surely logic would have said keep south of the Lys to move to Guarbeque. Mind we do know the brigadier had ordered the brigade south of the Lys when they should have stayed to the north so maybe the Berks were just obeying the proper order and ignoring Furlongs later order.
Guarbeque is on the South of the AIRE canal NOT the Lys, wrongly transcribed I think because the other book places the town correctly south of the Aire canal.
2. Obviously dad is a day out with his incident since the Battalion spent the night at Merville and did not cross the bridge at St Venant to move on to Bas Hamel until after midday on the 25th May. This seems confirmed in the book History of the Royal Berkshire Regiment 1920 to 1947 wherein the role of honour states “ 5127016 Lance Corporal Joynson P. 25th May 1940”.
This once again shows just how little faith we can place in the dates from the CWGC, I can understand dad being a day out since he is 95 and memory of over 70 years ago will be a little hazy.

Cheers

Dave
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="59" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Table Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Placeholder Text"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Revision"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="List Paragraph"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} </style> <![endif]-->

[Verrieres]

Hi Dave,
I believe Robecq was in German hands at that time (unsure) The Royal Berks entered the town over the wooden bridge over the LYS .Advancing from Merville where they had been given the task of holding the GUARBECQUE bridge.They reached the HURTEVENT Road initialy protected by the trees once they broke cover they were heavily engaged by German artillery on the other side of LE BASSEE CANAL They suffered a large number of dead and wounded Capt Hall tried to take cover at Ferme LEPOIVRE but was killed whilst doing so .The flat terrain offered no cover the orders were to continue yet German machine guns at the ISBERGUES FACTORY would cut them to pieces.They stayed put pinned down between the Canal de la LYS and the GUARBECQUE river hoping for artillery support. (Source M.Faivre)

Isnt it strange how when you are desperate to find a little snippet of information relating to a particular subject, in this case Anthony Corkhill, you find yourself more than a little distracted by something of great importance but not at all directly relevent to the search .Both John and myself have each found references to other `missing soldiers` commemorated on the Dunkirk Memorial being at St Venant tonight I think I have found another this time a comrade of Anthony 4452575 Pte Charles Richard Minns Son of Mr. and Mrs. Charles Henry Minns, of Walker Gate, Newcastle-upon-Tyne in a testimony from DLI Sgt James Wray held at the IWM there is a reference to Sgt Wrays wounding at St Venant as he recalls Pte Hurst dressing his wounds and the Sergeant Major coming up to see what shape the platoon were in he says "..in the meantime Menns had been killed" .(there is no MENNS but there is a Minns So perhaps MINNS is at ST VENANT too but like Anthony commemorated on the DUNKIRK MEMORIAL...

Best

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Hi Jim, well what you have both found does prove that there are others besides Anthony Corkhill "missing" from the official records. I guess given the confused situation at the time in the area we should not be surprised at this, it is likely that men from the other two Battalions are in this situation as well.
Im sure if we keep digging a breakthrough will be made.

Cheers

Dave

[Verrieres]

Dedicated to the memory of Pte Anthony Corkhill
2nd Battalion The Durham Light Infantry
Died 29th May 1940 St Venant

73 years to the day.
Years have past but here you are never forgotten

Best

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Nice one Jim and i concur with the sentiment totaly.

Dave

[teecee1941]

Jim, thank you for your kind sentiments which have added a bit of depth to my day. This morning I had a run through to Durham Cathedral to visit the Durham Light Infantry Chapel and see Anthony's name in the Book of Remembrance. It is rewarding just to have a quiet moment in the little chapel which sits nicely within the imposing Cathedral. Tony
Dedicated to the memory of Pte Anthony Corkhill
2nd Battalion The Durham Light Infantry
Died 29th May 1940 St Venant

73 years to the day.
Years have past but here you are never forgotten

Best

Jim

[roy dadge]

I am not sure if I am too late but I visited the site of the battle that took place on the morning of the 28th May 1940 in 2007. My father who was in Platoon 18 "D" Company RWF and was fortunate in that he escaped that morning. I cannot confirm the name of the farm but I did take a photograph looking towards the RWF headquarters from the bridge(which I have included below) and one from the RWF headquarters to the bridge. I remember that the DLI Headquarters was about two hundred yards futher along the canal from the RWF Headquarters and indeed in 2007 there was a large building there that could of been a barn. If you were to visit St Venant, stand on the bridge, then walk along the towpath as shown in the photo and when you reach the cemetary the DLI Headquarters will be found, from memory, between the cemetary and the canal.

Taken from the war Diaries of the RWF

"The Canal Bank position was held at this time by theHeadquarters of the R.W.F. and of the D.L.I., together with what remained oftheir respective H.Q. Companies. There was also a M.G. Platoon of theManchester’s in the vicinity. The Battalion had the A.A. L.M.Gs. in a copse tothe West of the cemetery. Outside the cemetery on the South, West, and Eastsides were roughly dug trenches containing some dozen men apiece. On the roadthat ran between the North, or rear end of the cemetery and the canal wasBattalion Headquarters itself, consisting of about four officers and somesignallers, and clerks. Some 150 yards along the road, to the East, the D.L.I.H.Q. occupied a farm along the canal bank. Their dispositions are not known indetail. On either side of the position, from the canal bridge on the right andthe farm on the left, the canal bent slightly towards the rear, a factor thatwas to have an effect on the fighting."

I have uploaded a photograph marking the positions of the headquarters of both regiments. Looking from the bridge they are both on the right with the RWF the closer of the two. I hope this helps.

Roy

[dcdl12976]

Roy, any other slant or opinion on this thread may help to piece things togeather mate.

Cheers

Dave

[roy dadge]

Roy, any other slant or opinion on this thread may help to piece things togeather mate.

Cheers

Dave

Hi,

Attached is a map of St Venant which provides the positions of the various units that I put together in 2007. I hope it helps.

[dcdl12976]

Roy we have i think had a similar map on here some time back, but nice anyway, dont forget there was a third battalion in the area 1st Royal Berks which is my particular interest because dad was in it. If you check back through the thread you will find his story.

Cheers

Dave

[Verrieres]

Hello,
It has gone rather quiet on the Anthony Corkhill search I`m not sure if Tony has any updates but until he comes along heres a bit of related information.a while ago someone sold copies of three photographs from St Venant on a well known postcard selling site in France. (Theres still copies there!) It was hinted that two of the photographs showed a massacre site when it was in fact the mass grave referred to earlier and which the CWGC denied all knowledge of despite it being on their website at the time????? If it was a massacre we do not know at least in the sense of a war crime that is.
As one of the lines of enquiry we obtained a list of the unfortunate souls exhumed from this grave.We identified , matched ,cross matched these lists finding a few surprises along the way but...something I missed along the way... the dates of death given for those buried there.
We have seen how unreliable the CWGC dates are for this period however in this grave we have 7 DLI with dates of death between 28th May 1940 and (various). The 28th May 1940 one day after the battle ,one day before the death of Anthony Corkhill. We have always argued that based on their own criteria the CWGC hold or had been supplied with an eye witness report which saw Anthony,certainly alive after RSM Goddards meeting with him on the 27th May,and possibly his death on the 29th May 1940. So I ask who or what document relates to the last sighting of these 7 DLI and the rest of the men in that grave? The various end dates are the dates a body was found not buried hence a soldier listed as died between 28th May 1940 and 1st June 1940 had documented evidence of being alive on the 28th May 1940,he could have died on this date or any other date up until June 1st but he was last seen alive on the 28th (had to be).
One day after the battle ended there is a record of these men alive,just like there is a record of Anthony Corkhill being alive on the 29th May. Is this document one and the same as the one we seek? If theres no document filed under `Corkhill` could it be filed elsewhere under one of the other mens names?
In relation to Tonys last update relating to the unknown next to Syd Walt being a Corporal? Lance Corporal/ Unpaid Lance Corporal? Promoted in the field? If the war diary did`nt survive I doubt field promotions would either there would be no record of it on his service record for May? Perhaps we should`nt discount anything ?

Best

Jim

[ivor43]

Hi All.

Thanks for the info Jim, when exactly did the photos emerge for sale. was it since the start of this thread, if so maybe someone has realised that money could be made out of them. But what else may be out there. I may be a suspicious old sod but if they did appear after we started this investigation i just may detect a slight whiff of a certain Frenchman. Of course i may be totally wrong.
But the main purpose of this post is something different.
I am, probably like yourselves, somewhat puzzled, even annoyed, by the reluctance of the Authorities to come up with the info. I can think of 2 reasons for this,
First. they DO NOT HAVE IT. if so WHY? was it lost,Buried, a long time ago for some reason. possibly to protect reputations ?
Second. is it covered by the 70 odd year rule, if so why not say so.

Now i am going to ask for your help for the next part, because i do not know how to do it, or if it at all possible.

Under the Freedom Of Information Act. what is the basis for a request.
What i am thinking of is it possible to request, if it is available, the records of the German Aid Post at Calonne.
My thinking is this. We know who are buried in Calonne but we do not know if they died in the Aid Post. Also the record should have the names of persons admitted and when. If as i believe there is a possibility that Anthony could have been taken there, then this is a way of establishing this possibility.
But i am not sure where a record of this nature would be , would it be with U.K. Authorities as it dealt with British Personnel, or would it have been retained by the Germans. But some record must exist somewhere.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

The records of the aid post, if they were kept at all, and if they survived, are not in German archives or my friends would have found them by now.

John

[ivor43]

John,
Thanks. That is what i thought, but, if they survived, they must be somewhere.
I would have thought that they would have been available to those working on the 41/2 clearances or how else could they have obtained exact info re Dof D. especially those bodies removed from the School Field


ivor

[dcdl12976]

Ivor go here mate, https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/mod

Remember though they will not accept or reply to generalisation requests they must be specific also IF the documents come under the 75 year rule then they will not release them under any circumstances until the date of expiry. If the documents contain reference to Organisations like SOE or SIS (MI6) or people that later served in those departments in any way then they will not be released until 2030.

Cheers

Dave

[ivor43]

Dave.
Thanks for the link.Believe me my request will be most specific.. will keep you all informed.


ivor

[dcdl12976]

No probs Ivor, only mentioned the SOE/SIS beacause i have found out a fair bit more about what dad was up to when he came out of hospital after Dunkirk, when we meet i will explain but i reckon you could hazard a guess from what we have discussed in the past.

:twitcy::shocked::coolicon:

[Baconwallah]

The official dates of death appear to have been wild guesses at best. The men in the Robecq Road mass grave were all killed 27/05 and buried within a day or two. Yet dates of death according to the CWGC vary from 21/05 to 08/11. Not much good to build your case on.

John

[ivor43]

Hi Guys.
Dave , i fully agree with your comments re SIS/SOE. I will be back in U.K. from 15 July for about 5 weeks so we may well be able to arrange to meet.

John. i Fully agree with you with regard to the D o D, with regard to the Majority of those KIA. But the circumstances of the men who died in the Field Hospital or in any other Hospital,surely, must be somewhat different.
Even if only Minimum Records were kept, Surely they would contain, Name, Date of Admission, Nature of Injury, Date of Release to PoW Or DoD.
I would have thought that would have been a requirement of Geneva Convention.



ivor

[dcdl12976]

This is not strictly relevant to the thread but it may help to explain why we hit walls if there is any mention of anyone that later served with the SOE or SIS in the records then the following sent to me my an expert in the subject will apply, it may even be the reason why i get no replys from the Wardrobe on any enquirys i make to them about St Venant. Because dad going on to "special ops" and spending a lot of time at Shorncliffe because it had an airstrip and was only a short hop to France, when asked why he did this he said hey wanted people who knew northern France and spoke very good French

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-GB</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="&#45;-"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> The SOE was to some extent a law unto itself in how it was staffed and operated, due to its very constitution it had no formal existence in the armed services so they either made up its units as pure fiction (the classic example of this is that of Major Woods 'E.S.6. (WD)' at Aston House) or contrived a suitable cover unit (eg I.S.R.B). In many cases already serving military personnel seconded to the SOE retained their unit identity (especially where special or tactical knowledge was their particular skill) however the pool is also muddied by the fact that the SOE not being a recognized unit during WW2 had a high level of effectively civilian upper management (albeit 'commissioned')... traditionally the espionage world is populated by people who know people rather than people who applied for the job.

SOE papers do exist in TNA, and slowly they are being made public domain however as you say personnel files are by Chancellors order retained for 100 years (on the assumption of individuals birth in 1930) if the individual is either proven or thought to be alive. However SOE personnel files of surviving/living members can be accessed by the member without restriction (post 2003 from memory).... but, the decision was made that any file of a living member that contains information of a member thought or proven to be alive will still be restricted without formal consent of that individual too.

So in reality this is a bit of a daisy chain as in most cases one document relates to another and that relates to another an so on...... but it is by no means a fait accompli.

Information on accessing the SOE files at TNA is obviously on the TNA website, I cant be 100% sure but in the past they were under the purview of Howard Davies in the Records Management Department. File statement: Special Operations Executive: Personnel Files (PF Series) code: HS9

It is also worth noting, that although the files initially can only be accessed by the surviving SOE member, once this has been done and there is no restricted material within they be released for family/public viewing if the member gives formal permission in writing to the appropriate archivist.

Last bit of advice I can give on the topic so far is that as suspect a large proportion of the SOE documentation was possibly destroyed by fire at the end of the war whilst in storage at Baker Street (many I have spoken with have some suspicion over this fact.. or more to the point if this was accidental or deliberate!). Below is the TNA statement put out when there files were released and there was a lot of dismay at the gaping holes...

..."SOE's archive is confused and incomplete. To some extent this is due to the haste and piecemeal fashion in which the organisation developed. For reasons of security no central registry was kept and each branch kept its own papers according to its own filing system. Toward the end of the war there was an attempt to reclassify the papers by subject, irrespective of origin. Only about a quarter of this task was completed in 1946 and as a result two unfinished systems of classification were left. Moreover two major destruction exercises took place, firstly the Oriental mission in Singapore destroyed it files in light of the pending Japanese advance and secondly the Middle Eastern Mission in Cairo, one of SOE's largest foreign stations, similarly destroyed its records as the Germans approached Alexandria. Instructions were subsequently issued for all surviving papers to be sent home after weeding of ephemeral material (Massingham, the Algiers base operating in France, destroyed virtually all its records with the exception of the personal files). Furthermore, a drastic weeding exercise was carried out by inexperienced staff in London. A fire in late 1945 also accounted for a further unknown number of files. Suggested subjects include Finance, FANY, Belgium and Poland. As a result an estimated 85% of SOE records held in London were destroyed..." The National Archive 2002

If your father was with SIS TNA will be a greater help as SIS was much better organised (being of military decent), they held a full Registry unit (incidentally based not far away in St Albans).
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="59" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Table Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Placeholder Text"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Revision"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="List Paragraph"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]-->

Sorry in advance if this bores you witless
Cheers

Dave

[jungle1810]

Hello,
My apologies for using this thread to mention some good books. I am unable to get into the "Recommend a book section"I can recommend the following books.
"Shot at Dawn by Julian Putowski and Julian Sykes the book lists all the men shot at Dawn with little pen pictures of the badges of the regiments they served in and full details of why they were arrested and the charges that led to their execution.
"Great battles of World War one" By Anthony Livesy. This book contains 20 of the battle sites in the Great War with photos and maps plus a Gazetteer which provides details of the battle sites mentioned in the book Flanders, The Somme, The Verdun area, with many useful addresses.
"Defeat at Gallipoli" by Nigel Steel &Peter Hart. This book contains maps and a definitive story of this campaign.
Regards R B D aka jungle1810

[Verrieres]

Hi, Its been a while so I thought I`d pop back with an update on how things are going .
Anyone following will recall the list of PoWs from 2 DLI that I posted ? Thanks to Mr Brian Simms we have been able to establish that out of the whole list including officers there are no records to suggest any of them filled out Liberation questionaires or followed up with Forms Q.
In relation to updates from either the MoD ,CWGC or the MP ...there has been none.
The `Missing Men File` from the National archives dealing with the DLI has ,after researching those named within it, proved to be a part file (only) dealing mainly with men of `D` Company. Other men known to be missing like Anthony Corkhill have no mentions what so ever.
Contact with other families has resulted in the finding of another `wounded` soldier who disappeared the family were told he died in hospital possibly in an air raid? But no one knows where he is buried.
In relation to those whom enquiries were made then a pattern has emerged most were last seen alive but wounded on their way to the aid-post or awaiting medics.
An enquiry in 1946 (I now have the file) into War Crimes at St Venant focused on four cases (there were more) Statements were taken from men of the Germania SS Regiment who were present in May 1940.In the statements none of those interviewed admitted any knowledge of the killing of British soldiers at this time and each one denied any orders were given at Regimental level in relation to prisoners. Indeed few claimed to have actually been at St Venant when the town fell most speeding on to the Forest of Nieppe. There is a mention that another unit was operating in St Venant and from the descriptions of the uniforms, insignia and rings which these soldiers wore they were likened to Totenkopf SS (not in the area according to official publications) and there was a note in the file that further investigation into this was needed.
The investigation were satisfied that someone at a lower level of an unknown unit had issued an order..and these are the words in the official file..." That no prisoners be taken and wounded British soldiers were to be slaughtered" Some of those killed are known to be Royal Berks but other cases the victims are unknown ,wounded soldiers executed and plenty of civilian witnesses and their testimony was accepted by the court. The file reiterates that whilst only 6 cases are dealt with over 60 soldiers may have been murdered.
An account by the DLI signals officer Michael Farr was thought to exist I reviewed the Family papers last week but could not find the detailed account which does exist.In a letter to his mother following his capture there is reference to hundreds been killed but the letter was not the right way or time to go into detail of what had happened.
Whilst I was looking through the papers Mr Simms contacted me to tell me Farr had completed a Liberation report together with numerous others these Questionaires are currently `locked` in a MI 19 file. He has put in a Freedom of Information request to view these only to be told they are not there! He knows they are and will take this up on a later visit.
Tony is to recontact his MP it was my intention to offer to accompany Tony (as a bit of moral support) to visit his MP however his surgeries and my shift pattern make this impossible at present.

That I think is that for now although I`m sure I have simplified things a little, not much to hearten the search but we soldier on..

Best

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Thanks for the update Jim, much food for thought in it.

[ivor43]

Hi Folks.
Been a quiet summer but something has come up which just might have some relevance to Jim's research into 2 DLI. Have a look at the Thread
4192026 L/Cpl Leonard Brooks.
While not directly connected to this thread it contains info re the PoW situation.It might be that Brooks was a survivor of Robecq (B Co RWF) who ended up in Stalag XXA in Poland.With some 4,500 others from Dunkirk.
It is possibly worth reading the Wartime Memories Link. as it was a march of some 800 + miles and a lot of guys died during the march.
What would have been the procedure in these circumstances. a field grave. But would they have been recorded, and dealt with under the clearances. or are there dozens of unknown grave along the route of the march.
To strengthen this theory. there is evidence that RSM Goddard was in Stalag XX1B which is only 45ish miles from XXA. Have a look and get back to me.

ivor

[ivor43]

Hi All.
A thread has just been posted which contains something that may have some serious implications for this quest.

Private 9956 John Woodford, RWF WW1.

AP1 has attached a MIC which has the annotation '' Death Accepted 30/10/14 ''.Now in explanation Richard Ward says that usually, at that time, that would indicate the last time they were known to be alive. I have asked him for confirmation if the same system was being used in WW2.
This would have a considerable impact on our search and the responses from ''Officialdom''. we have worked on the assumption that it was evidence that Anthony was known to have Died on 29/5/40. if the WW1 system was being used then that may have been the last date he was known to be Alive. I hope someone can clarify this as it would change things quite dramatically.



ivor

[dcdl12976]

This would indeed open a whole new can of worms

[Baconwallah]

Here is the full text, Ivor:

"It is my painful duty to inform you that it has been decided by the War Office Casualty Branch that in view of information received by that department and the lapse of time during whieh no further news has been received your son 4449147 Pte Anthony Corkhill 2nd Bn Durham Light Infantry will be recorded as presumed died of wounds on or since the 29th May 1940."

In short, Anthony was still alive, apparently, on the 29th and then disappeared.

The crucial bit is of course the 'information received' - what was it, who gave it?

John

[dcdl12976]

Quite agree John, of course if it was one of his companions or in fact anyone given the info by word of mouth to the authorities then they may well be deceased logically there fore we are only going to find out more on this subject if something was put down in writing and this i suspect will not be the case. Do you know the date this sad message was given to the family ?

Dave

[ivor43]

John.
you may have missed a bit. and from WHERE.

ivor

[Baconwallah]

The 'who' will also answer the 'where', I think.

The letter was dated 28th November 1941. Points to a returning PoW in my opinion.

John

[ivor43]

Hi.
So this letter is only a 'Presumption of death' not a notification of death. In fact a 'missing in action'.

ivor

[dcdl12976]

"The letter was dated 28th November 1941" John surely the only way a POW could be returning to Britain in 1941 is if he was in dire straights health wise or am i missing something here. My feeling is that the information came from the RSM when he was released, do we know when that was. There is one other possibility though, that is that a POW had contact with the Red Cross and they passed the info on to the authorities in 1941.

[Baconwallah]

A sizeable number of PoWs were repatriated for health reasons in 1941, several DLI among them. There is a list and Jim has it, I think. So far, a dead end.

The RSM was released post-war. He has stated twice (first in reply to a Red Cross request during the war, then again post-war in a letter to the family) that he last saw Anthony on the 27th. He had asked around among his fellow PoWs but never discovered what had happened to Anthony.

The Red Cross has no record of any correspondence re Anthony except the RSM's reply mentioned above. Had there been any, they would have passed the information to the family, not to the authorities.

John

[dcdl12976]

Thanks John, so by this it would seem Anthony was still alive 4 days after the RSM observed him on the canal bank this would seem to preclude the executions around that date and would suggest he was eithrer taken to hospital as suggested or maybe even hidden by the French for those days

[ivor43]

Hi again.
With regard to the possibility that he was in the Aid Post from 27th.
The Aid Posts are by their nature mobile units which follow the front line. If an AP had a number of wounded PoW's and it was required to move on, what happened to said PoW's, i doubt that they would have been taken with them. Similar doubts about them being left at local Hospitals as that would have involved leaving men to guard them.So what would have happened to them.
Where would the German wounded be treated, did they have a ''Base Hospital'' type of unit which could have had a secure area for the PoW's, if so where?.

ivor

[dcdl12976]

Ivor, following up after the assault troops would have been Fedgendarmerie units (Field Police, very much the same as our Military Police only with a lot more power and a lot nastier ie they shot rather than arrested including there own men if they showed any inclination not to fight) to secure the area and maintain a presence untill the garrison units arrived a few days later, there may even have been some units of German civilian Police brought in (many Police units were formed during the war for just this reason) including ones working for the Gestapo in Russia.

I dont think the field Aid posts would as you say be able to cope with wounded being moved with them, they would be off loaded somewhere though where is debatable.

Cheers

Dave

[ivor43]

John.
in that other thread re PoW'S it was known that the RSM was in Stalag XX1b which was officers. If Anthony got to that area he would probably have been in XXa. So there probably would not have been any knowledge of Anthony.

ivor.

[Baconwallah]

I have corrected the date in my post #622: the RSM last saw Anthony on the 27th, not the 25th. After the war he wrote, "During the time I was a PoW I made many inquiries from men of the Battalion but I am sorry to say that I was unable to procure any further information regarding him."

The VDK (the German War Graves Commission) told me they have no records of medical units in the 1940 campaign.

John

[ivor43]

Hi Guys.
Just found this
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Lazarette/Gliederung-R.htm

looks interesting.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

None in France, Ivor, unlsees you count the reoccupied Alsace.

These were/are large and highly specialised hospitals, nowhere near two days from the front.

Try Feldlazarett.

John

[ivor43]

Hi.
Just looking over the list there is one interesting point that answers one of my earlier queries, a number of the Hospitals are shown as PoW hospitals. However there is hospital at Verdun. would this be within a couple of days travel from the front ? also it is fairly close to the German border.

ivor

[Baconwallah]

Verdun, in the last days of May 1940, would be on the other side of the moon to the Germans as it was still French. The fortress did not fall until June 15th.

John

[ivor43]

John.
Thanks i wasn't aware of the dates.
As i said in a previous post the Aid Posts were by nature mobile organisations which worked independently. But, surely, they were responsible to someone. For example. any wounded German would not have been kept at the Field post for long,surely, they would have been taken somewhere else,further away from the front. A Clearing hospital ? which in turn would have been responsible to a Base or main hospital. if we are correct in assuming the Field Aid Post at Calonne closed down on 29th then would it be safe to assume that there would have been German troops there as well as Brits. so where would they have gone? would Cologne be an option?

ivor

[Baconwallah]

A General Hospital would receive the serious cases. All others would be sent from the Aid Post, the Verbandplatz, to the divisional Field Hospital, the Feldlazarett, with 200 beds, and even the serious cases would probably have had to go through there. Unfortunately there is little or no information on the medical services set-up in the war zone. We know how it was organised, but the where and when of individual units are hidden deep inside the divisional war diaries - if they still exist.

John

[ivor43]

John.
You probably know this. but it is interesting reading. came from Feldgrau.net.

http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=17366&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

seems that the Base Hospital was at Btn HQ.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

Not so, Ivor. a Base Hosp would be in the rear zone. It had nothing to do with fast moving units such as Divisions and Corps. The largest a Div had was the Feldlazarett, the FIeld Hosp. At Battalion level there were just two Medical Officers, much overworked. Even a third MO for the 3-bn regiments could not be realised due to continuing shortages. If there was one, he was not a surgeon but a gas specialist.

John

[dcdl12976]

Folks as i understand this is how the German military evacuation of wounded took place for there own wounded, i assume Prisoners would go the same basic route.

HOSPITALIZATION AND EVACUATION The chain of evacuation of German wounded was found to be very similar to that utilized by the US Army, but triage, that is sorting of patients for specialized hospitalization, differed in several important aspects. First aid to the wounded was rendered in a Verwundetennest by a medical non-commissioned officer, in an extreme forward position. This treatment can be said to compare in echelon to that given by a US company aid man on the field of battle. Here the first dressing, improvised splinting for transportation ease, traction splinting, pressure bandages and tourniquets were applied. The wounded were evacuated from the Verwundetennest to the Truppenverbandplatz, which corresponded to the American battalion aid station, and where the first medical officer, corresponding to the US battalion surgeon, practiced. Treatment given at this station included: checking of the dressing (unless there was some indication the dressing was not to be disturbed) ; tracheotomy; application of occlusive dressings to open chest wounds; relief of pain; preparation for further evacuation to the rear; shock therapy in the forms of peristone, physiological salt solution, coramine, and external heat by electric heaters; prevention of infection, by injection of tetanus antitoxin and gas gangrene antitoxin, administration of sulfapyridine by mouth, insufflation of sulfanilamide powder into wound at time of first dressing, pressure bandage, and arrest of hemorrhage by application of tourniquet (rarely by hemostat or ligature); and catheterization.
From the Truppenverbandplatz all the wounded were evacuated to the Hauptverbandplatz, which was established about four miles to the rear of the combat line by the Sanitaets Kompanie of the division. This unit was staffed to perform the functions of both clearing and hospitalization. Its Tables of Organization provided for two operating surgeons, but in times of stress six or eight more surgeons might be added. The unit was designed to hospitalize two hundred patients, but often expanded to three or four hundred. When the flow of casualties was not heavy, all those patients with abdominal wounds and other non-transportable cases were given primary surgery at this installation. In addition, primary surgery was performed on minor wound cases here as well. All cases with major compound fractures, brain wounds, and chest wounds were evacuated to the Feldlazarett or to a Kriegslazarett, where they were treated with more definitive care. In the German medical field manuals the functions of a Hauptverbandplatz are listed as: tracheotomy; closure of open chest wounds; aspiration of the


603
pericardium in cardiac tamponade; emergency amputations; final arrest of hemorrhage; administration of blood and blood substitutes; surgery on the non-transportables; and suprapubic cystostomy.
The Feldlazarett was the next unit in the chain of evacuation. It was an Army unit designed to care for two hundred patients. Ordinarily patients with head wounds and transportable chest wounds, severe muscle wounds, buttock wounds, and major compound fractures received primary surgery in the Feldlazarett. While it was attempted to perform intra-abdominal surgery as far forward as possible, such cases were often evacuated to the Feldlazarett for surgery whenever the Hauptverbandplatz was too busy. The Feldlazarett was staffed with only two surgeons, but in periods of pressure, it was often augmented by surgeons from other units.
The Kriegslazarett, or General Hospital, was usually assigned to the German Army Group. In Italy most of these installations were grouped at Merano and Cortina d'Ampezzo. It was their function to hospitalize all patients who were not returned to duty from the more forward units. In addition, certain groups of the wounded received primary surgery at the Kriegslazarett, such as penetrating head wounds complicated by involvement of the eye or ear, and maxillofacial wounds. In very busy periods, all patients with major wounds might be evacuated to the Kriegslazarett for surgery while the more forward units confined their surgery to men with wounds of such a nature that they would be able to return to their units and full duty within reasonable short periods of time after surgery. Also, as frequently occurred during heavy attack periods, abdominal and head wound cases were given no surgical care.
In addition to those units already mentioned, there were hospitals for the lightly sick, lightly wounded, and convalescent patients. In each German division was the Ersatz company which served as a replacement depot and reconditioning unit for lightly wounded who had received primary surgery at the Hauptverbandplatz. The wounded sent to this Ersatz company were given light exercise under the direction of a doctor, and were ordinarily returned to duty after one week. There were usually between fifty and one hundred lightly wounded in the Ersatz company, in addition to the replacements sent from Germany, who only stayed long enough to be equipped before being sent into combat. The officers and the doctor of the Ersatz company were limited service personnel by nature of previous wounds or illness.
In the army areas and in the general hospital centers, hospitals for the lightly sick and wounded were established by elements of transport units (Krankentransportabteilungen). They received their patients from Feldlazaretten in the Army area and from Kriegslazaretten in the Army Group area or hospital centers.

[dcdl12976]

Continued.

At the beginning of the war in Europe, all divisions had two Sanitaets Kompanies. At the end only the armored and mountain divisions had two each, but the Corps Surgeon had under his control one Sanitaets Kompanie for use where needed. When two Sanitaets Kompanies were available, two Hauptverbandplatzen were often established. In the beginning of an offensive, one Sanitaets Kompanie, horse-drawn, was placed only three or four kilometers behind the battle line to receive casualties. The other Kompanie, motorized, was held in reserve to be used after substantial gains had been made. Then, if further gains were made and the Hauptverbandplatz was required farther forward, the motorized Kompanie moved, leaving its patients to be taken over by the animal-drawn Kompanie. The patients of the animal-drawn Kompanie were left to be taken over by a Feldlazarett. Thus there were often two divisional units performing surgery ahead of the Army's most forward Feldlazarett. With a large-scale offensive division, army, and army group hospitals might all perform primary surgery only on the less seriously wounded, putting aside the intra-abdominal and intra-cranial wounds in favor of those who were more likely to live and return to full duty.

I need to stress here this is for the Germans own wounded but most i suspect would apply to Prisoners

[ivor43]

thanks guys.
while digging i found the following.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/SanEinheiten/Sankp-R.htm

We know that one of these units was at Calonne, so i will try and identify which one, could take some time.
well i have plenty of that.


ivor.

[dcdl12976]

3rd SS Panzer Division TotenkopfSS Field Hospital 3

[dcdl12976]

Sad to say i believe we have to take into account the nature of the units in this area at the time.

SS VT, a highly politically indoctrinated unit containing a regiment (Germania) that came close to being wiped out at Merville and was only saved by the intervention of elements of the Division Totenkoph who were themselves in the main ex Concentration camp guards and thus saw any prisoners as a hindrance (Wormhoult is an example) where they massacred 65 Royal Norfolk Prisoners (15 survived to testify yet no one was brought to account) . Even German prosecutors a few years ago said there was insufficient evidence to bring Wilhelm Mohnke to trial. these units would have been followed by There Feldgendarmerie troops (including one from Corps and Army) all looking for prisoners held in hospitals or hidden by local French or just simply hiding to avoid capture which was part of there job. On finding any they would nearly always have been taken into custody no matter how badly injured they were. Following this would have come the members of the SD who were very nasty and it would seem had no conscience a all about committing atrocities, and finally the garrison troops who were generally 2nd line divisions with older more unfit men unsuitable for 1st line use. A s i said in an earlier post there may well have been units of German civilian police in the area as well.

I have asked a friend of mine an ex pat who has lived im Germany for a long time and has had a lot to do with HIAG (The SS Veterans Organisation) to see what he can find out for us, he also has many contacts within the German authorities and is as far as i am aware the only person ever to have been allowed to teach an d dress as the SS side of things in museums etc without being arrested.

Hopefully he may be able to open up avenues which non of us can.

Cheers

Dave

[Verrieres]

Not sure these Hospital Units would have been used initially, the DLI I have researched with more serious wounds were sent on the 27th May 1940 to St Pol and those with minor wounds or wounds so serious that they could not be moved were treated at the Sanatorium Augustus??(or similar/illegible document) in St Venant itself using captured medical staff and orderlies . Prior to the German advance Ferme Boulet was as originally stated an aid post.

[Verrieres]

Latest update from Tony,

No reply was received from the MP so Tony contacted them again he confirmed that no reply had been forthcoming from the MoD hence no update for Tony. The MP agreed to re-contact the MoD and see what was causing the delay. Again Tony received no update .Tony re-contacted the MP again and enquired once again if there was any reply, he in turn contacted the MoD again and this time received the following reply

Thank you for your email. We have been trying to get you a response, but the MoD have answered neither the original letter, nor a subsequent letter asking for a reply, hence our lack of contact with yourself.

Upon contacting their correspondence office to enquire into this, they stated that due to a high levels of incoming correspondence they cannot guarantee a response on all issues.



Do they not deem the disappearance of a British soldier in the course of his duty, fighting for the freedom of this country sufficiently important to warrant a reply?

Jim

[Baconwallah]

Do they not deem the disappearance of a British soldier in the course of his duty, fighting for the freedom of this country sufficiently important to warrant a reply?

That is precisely the question the MP should be asking in the House, Jim. But somehow I don't think he will. Nobody gives a damn. What a world.

John

[dcdl12976]

Sadly this is the attitude we have had in all avenues of approach to this from government departments and officials my feeling is they are delaying tactics in the hope the questions will go away. I am convinced there is more known about this officially than is being said, i am equally convinced that we will not be told whatever that is. Of course it may just simply be that staff cuts and relocations of MOD staff at head office buildings in London has meant that a lot of work which was done previously is now not being done.

Cheers

Dave

[dcdl12976]

There is an interesting photo here http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/41436-pre-war-st-venant-photographs/ British soldiers outside what later became the Lunatic Asylum they look like prisoners to me but i could be wrong.

Apologies if this photo is known to the thread.

Dave

[ivor43]

hi all.
can i refer you to my post of 22nd Mar #583.

''Good Morning.
Well guys , you probably now realise that we are into something not quite what we expected. Welcome to St Vennant
In ‘’Ye Olden Days ‘’ a map would have shown the area as ‘’Do Not Enter. There Be DRAGONS Here’.I am very,very reluctant to enter there, as I believe I know who the Dragons are.
You have found that by looking at the War Diaries of the 3 units involved, that they are either wrong, RWF Dates, missing, rewritten. 2DLI or just plain missing. 1RB.
This would not have surfaced otherwise.
There are several known incident of FF.. I believe that the deaths of Lt Garnett of the RWF and 6 others ,Grave markers 23/5/40, RWF WD 24/5/40 . were a result of the advancing RWF coming under fire from a Co of 2/5 WY who had been tasked with the defence of St Floris to hold against the Known German advance into St Vennant. On 23rd.
The account from Mr Cook Snr of the arty fire and the comments of the FOO that they believed that the Gremans held the position, would seem to indicate that British troops were not known to be further west than St Floris.which appears to have been the British Holding Position.
So why were they there ?
Another very strange thing occurs to Mr Cook Snr. On his return to UK he is Hospitalised and he arranges to speak to the parents of his friend who was killed in the FF incident. When he is released from Hospital he is not posted back to his regiment, he is posted, without any prior notification, for Parachute training to become an Air Gunner. I am not sure if you are aware but the life expectancy of an AG was measured in Days/weeks not months. Very Odd. But fortunately he survived and he has my total respect.
I might be a cynical old sod but it might seem that Mr Cook may have been deliberately put in Harms Way.
With regard to the reasons why British troop were in St Vennant. When it was known that the German’s were there on 23rd and the British were holding at St Floris.I will not comment. I have my own opinion regarding this but that is how it will stay.
In conclusion I will just say that yes I believe that there is something very odd here and I do not believe that we are going to get any further with this, unless we are able to find someone outside this forum with a Lot of Seniority and Authority..


Ivor''

Sadly these recent posts do nothing too change my opinion of 7 months ago.
All i will say is that spending some time looking at the background etc of certain individuals killed in possible FF incidents is quite enlightening.


ivor

[dcdl12976]

Hi Ivor, you have im sure looked into the names and background of the people i have sent you a while back maybe you have come to the same conclusion i have that this goes right to the very top even above Field Marshall level. I am not going to post that information on here for what i think is obvious reasons howwever i can now give the forum some more information on the rest of Dads war.

After his para training which was at RAF Cardington near Bedford he was posted to Shorncliffe which he says was because it had an airstrip and was only a short hop to France, he says the reason for him being picked for these duties was they wanted people with a good knowledge of Northern France and who spoke very good French (this i didnt know) he made a lot of trips either by aircraft landing or by parachute into the area where he fought (possibly even the St Venant area though he says he cant remember exactly).

He says he did not know who he was working for which i dont think is correct, however the point of this is he could only have been working for one of two agencies, Secret intelligence services (later Mi6) or the SOE both of which if this is true may be part or all of the reasons why there is silence from all directions on this matter since if his name is mentioned in any paperwork relating to the enquiry even if only in passing then they will not release the information whilst he still lives except to him and in any case the 75 year rule will apply.

Fancyfull you may say, well possibly but a distinct possibility non the less.

Cheers
Dave

[ivor43]

Thanks for the Info Dave. but i would be quite surprised if your dads actions after May 1940 would have had any bearing on the original requests from Tony, as they were different units. I can fully understand why anything after his retraining would be unavailable, for the reasons you have stated.
I fully believe that the reasons for this 'Non Cooperation ' is based on the action at St Venant.


ivor

[dcdl12976]

Ivor whilst i understand your point, we have to consider that if ANY paperwork from the events of the time have dads name on it (or anyone connected to dad and the events) because of the later SIS or SOE connections it will be considered to be under the 75 year rule or only released to him personally mate.

Here is an extract from a lady who has investigated SOE etc many time.

SOE papers do exist in TNA, and slowly they are being made public domain however as you say personnel files are by Chancellors order retained for 100 years (on the assumption of individuals birth in 1930) if the individual is either proven or thought to be alive. However SOE personnel files of surviving/living members can be accessed by the member without restriction (post 2003 from memory).... but, the decision was made that any file of a living member that contains information of a member thought or proven to be alive will still be restricted without formal consent of that individual too.

So in reality this is a bit of a daisy chain as in most cases one document relates to another and that relates to another an so on...... but it is by no means a fait accompli.

Information on accessing the SOE files at TNA is obviously on the TNA website, I cant be 100% sure but in the past they were under the purview of Howard Davies in the Records Management Department. File statement: Special Operations Executive: Personnel Files (PF Series) code: HS9

It is also worth noting, that although the files initially can only be accessed by the surviving SOE member, once this has been done and there is no restricted material within they be released for family/public viewing if the member gives formal permission in writing to the appropriate archivist.

Last bit of advice I can give on the topic so far is that as suspect a large proportion of the SOE documentation was possibly destroyed by fire at the end of the war whilst in storage at Baker Street (many I have spoken with have some suspicion over this fact.. or more to the point if this was accidental or deliberate!). Below is the TNA statement put out when there files were released and there was a lot of dismay at the gaping holes...

..."SOE's archive is confused and incomplete. To some extent this is due to the haste and piecemeal fashion in which the organisation developed. For reasons of security no central registry was kept and each branch kept its own papers according to its own filing system. Toward the end of the war there was an attempt to reclassify the papers by subject, irrespective of origin. Only about a quarter of this task was completed in 1946 and as a result two unfinished systems of classification were left. Moreover two major destruction exercises took place, firstly the Oriental mission in Singapore destroyed it files in light of the pending Japanese advance and secondly the Middle Eastern Mission in Cairo, one of SOE's largest foreign stations, similarly destroyed its records as the Germans approached Alexandria. Instructions were subsequently issued for all surviving papers to be sent home after weeding of ephemeral material (Massingham, the Algiers base operating in France, destroyed virtually all its records with the exception of the personal files). Furthermore, a drastic weeding exercise was carried out by inexperienced staff in London. A fire in late 1945 also accounted for a further unknown number of files. Suggested subjects include Finance, FANY, Belgium and Poland. As a result an estimated 85% of SOE records held in London were destroyed..." The National Archive 2002

If your father was with SIS TNA will be a greater help as SIS was much better organised (being of military decent), they held a full Registry unit (incidentally based not far away in St Albans).

[ivor43]

Thanks Dave.
But Shorncliffe was an Airfield, however SOE and their Lysanders also flew into and out of Fields.
Having lived in Huntingdon for a number of years the no of WW2 airfields within the area was quite remarkable.
Alconbury (USAF).Wyton. Warboys. Upwood ( USAF Base Hospital ) and several others.
But there was a little known Field used by SOE at Somersham.

http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?4206-Somersham

I suspect that there were a no of similar fields dotted about the south.

But i still think that whatever your dad's activities after May 1940 i do not think they are the reason behind the attitude of MoD etc; which as far as i am concerned Stinks.
quoting Jim.
''Do they not deem the disappearance of a British soldier in the course of his duty, fighting for the freedom of this country sufficiently important to warrant a reply?''

Of course it warrants a reply and a possible investigation. I suspect that we may wish to change our attitude towards MoD/CWGC with regard to this enquiry. To do that we need someone with some Clout.
I believe that we have enough info which in the right hands could cause some serious embarrassment if it was made known.
So anyone have any contact with any Ex Officers/MP's who might be sympathetic to our cause.


ivor

[dcdl12976]

If im honest neither do i mate, but if does illustrate the sort of rules we are up against though if it is these rules holding the information back then why not just say so.

[ivor43]

Morning Dave.

If it is rules, then we have a problem. As we are both aware, when dealing with stuff from the public then Gov Depts are not very forthcoming. As Jim said they possibly are thinking that we will go away. Sorry No Chance.There is something peculiar here and it needs sorting. as i have said, as far as i am aware there is no forum member with enough clout to even cause a ripple, let alone a wave. We need someone with a lot of seniority or authority, who we can brief as to what we believe and if they are in agreement, to take this forward.

ivor

[ap1]

Guys just a thought. It might be worth posting a half page precis on this thread, about the original search query and where you are now. It's now 66 pages long and probably difficult and time consuming to bring yourself upto date if your a new visitor to the thread?

[Verrieres]

I`ll give it a go its not complete and who made what enquiry isn't on either but its what is roughly contained here on the Forum. Sorry if I`ve left anything or anyone out.

Anthony Corkhill (Durham Light Infantry) Killed during the Dunkirk Withdrawal - The Search for Answers



1940 Family are notified Pte Corkhill is missing.

Family enquire with the Red Cross and RSM Goddard(Durham Light Infantry) who was taken prisoner, into their sons disappearance

Correspondence received from the War Office regrets Pte Corkhill presumed Died of Wounds in France

Confirmation Pte Corkhill died of wounds 29th May 1940 No Known grave

Reply forwarded by the Red Cross from RSM Goddard who saw Pte Corkhill on the Canal bank wounded in both legs and a slight neck wound.Germans forbid RSM Goddard from taking his former batman with them instructing them to make him comfortable and to await their Field ambulance.

Contact with RSM Goddards family who confirm that Pte Corkhills fate was something which saddenened him throughout his life.

War Crimes files released by the MoD relate to several murders of British troops in the area during May 1940.Most unknown.File states possibly 60 men killed 6 cases highlighted 4 investigated men of Germania and Totenkopf Divisions interviewed all claim to have passed through the area.No outcome of trial/investigation recorded.Large mass grave at St venant containing 60-90 British dead.

Enquiries to CWGC into verification of date of death 29th May 1940 for Pte Corkhill.Date according to CWGC was supplied by the War Office.CWGC claim they know nothing further and hold no information on any `unknowns`

Mass grave is denied by CWGC despite it featuring on their Website.

Tony applies for service records death ammended in 1941 to 29th May 1940.

Anthony Corkhills will is obtained date of death 29th May 1940

Missing men file examined as enquiries were made regarding those missing in 1940.No enquiry found relating to Pte Corkhill .Roll within the file states Anthony Corthill (Mispelled but number confirmed) DEAD reference Q80.

Investigation into what `Q` Reference is possibly `Form Q` relating to report of War Crimes

Enquiries into Forms Q only extracts available actual wearabouts of Forms Q `Not known- National Archives.

Searcher party files explored and no instruction found to `search` for Pte Corkhill.

Check on DLI Non Effective File for 1940 `Pte Corkhill died in France 29th May 1940.

Investigation into unknown soldier buried next to Pte Walt the only other DLI casualty listed for May 29th 1940. Despite previous statement from CWGC that no information regarding unknowns is recorded they confirm unknown is a `Corporal` not a Private.

Investigations conducted into German records German war graves commission and the Bundeswehr Museum No Trace for Pte Corkhill.

CWGC confirm dates of death are last seen or body found which in Pte Corkhills case should have been the RSM Goddard last sighting on the 27th May however it isnt its two days later prompting the question who was last to see Anthony on the 29th May 1940

Researcher given list of 29 officers and men repatriated in 1941 in the hope that one filled out a Form Q in addition to their Liberation Questionaire. NO questionaires can be found for any of them.

Officer Michael Farrs questionaire located in locked MI19 file Freedom of Information request made. National archives deny its existance.

Tony approachers MP who promises to contact MoD in relation to enquiry nearly six months later no reply despite another two approaches from the MP and Tony.

MoD correspondence office state they are busy and not every enquiry wil receive a reply

Press contacted and after initial interest suddenly decide they are too busy to investigate further.

Enquiries made into known exumation of bodies in 1946 no official confirmation received.French Historian holds local records but cannot help the Corkhills after his help was instrumental in the Rodgers family obtaining a headstone for another DLI soldier

Enquiries made to the Mayors Office in St venant regarding surviving records-No reply

List of dead from mass grave obtained no mention of Anthony Corkhill but at least two other soldiers listed as missing No interest from official bodies.


Jim

[dcdl12976]

Thanks Jim saves going over a lot of old ground

[Verrieres]

UPDATE from Ministry of Defence.

I contacted the Minister of Defence via EMail questioning the lack of response to Tony`s questions .Since then I have received two acknowledgements and more importantly Tony has received a reply the relevant paragraph is featured below. Please read it ,then read it again I have and the more I read it the more I believe that they tend to agree that theres more somewhere...just not with them?


In many instances it would have been routine practice, to put an individual in the `missing category’ because the local military authorities were not in possession of sufficient information to decide what had happened to him and were unable to satisfy themselves that he was in fact `dead’. Subsequently, extensive enquiries were made through every possible channel during the war, and in the post war period these enquiries would have been intensified with the repatriation of thousands of former Prisoners Of War and former comrades. Some of this work has ended up in the casualty packs now held in the National Archives in WO 361. It is quite possible that more detailed information was received by the casualty branch/unit on particular casualties but that once they had been able to confirm a date/location of death this information was not retained for permanent preservation. At this juncture in time we simply have no way of saying if this was the case or not. All I can do is assure you that if such data had been retained and selected for permanent preservation then it would be within files held at the National Archives.
You may already be familiar with the workings of the War Office Casualty Branch during the War. There are reports in the National Archives including the following which may be of interest in providing some background of the types of enquiries undertaken to determine details of casualties:

WO 32/14356
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C6291346

WO 32/14358
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C6291348




Jim

[Baconwallah]

In short:

"The information may exist, but then it may not. In either case we know nothing about it so stop bothering us."

John

[dcdl12976]

Ref the holding of records i can say that those still in possestion of the MOD are now run by a civy company since 2008 so that could explain the lack of cooperation, also various records have over the years been held at a number of places for instance MOD civilian records used to be held in LLangennic and when they were sorted for the move when that establishment closed many were disposed of unless they were either of national importance or related to a person of great standing either at the time of service or later. SIS records are i believe held in St Albans and many SOE records were held in Baker street until a fire destroyed most of them, other MOD records are held in two places one in the midlands and one on the South coast (do a search on google cos i wont name the places for obvious reasons). There was an article in a paper http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/06/ministry-of-defence-files-archive which shows what problems we will encounter with the MOD although these records relate mostly to Northern Ireland who knows where and how many other records may be sitting waiting to be found, processed and released (a good 75 % will of course be destroyed for the reason stated earlier) family ties and problems like Tonys may well not be considered important enough to be saved for posterity.

Next is my post on the wardrobe guestbook ref dad has at last been replied to, the first post in December last year has gone completely however the second post in May has been replied to albeit i believe censored any mention of the friendly fire incident appears to have been edited out.

Dave Cooke - 6th May 2013 My father (1st Btn) was at St Venant circa 24/29 May 1940. On the 24th he and several others were guarding the footbridge over the canal to the North West of St Venant and close to Haverskerque. His is Name Ronald Edward Cooke i think he may have been a L/Cpl at the time he survived the battles in this area and arrived safely back in England (though wounded) and spent time in hospital at Warwick . He is still alive at 95 this year and still with it mentally though he doesnt get around much. Regards Dave Cooke
The first time i posted this i mentioned the friendly fire incident and the name of his mate and father (i reckon that is why it has been deleted).


Lastly Jim your info about "locked files" in MI 19 i feel that freedom of informatrion will do us no good here since as part of the Secret Intelligence Service there files are closed for 100 years and considered as not in the public interest to know as well as being likely to put the security of the realm at risk (this is a blanket assumption no matter what the file relates to.
Now lets look at MI 19 itself.

From Wikipedia.

MI19 was a section of the British Directorate of Military Intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directorate_of_Military_Intelligence), part of the War Office (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Office). In World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II) it was responsible for obtaining information from enemy prisoners of war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_war).
It was originally created in December 1940 as MI9a, a sub-section of MI9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MI9). A year later, in December 1941, it became an independent organisation, though still closely associated with its parent.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MI19#cite_note-Foot-1)
MI19 had Combined Services Detailed Interrogation Centres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Services_Detailed_Interrogation_Centre) (CSDIC) at Beaconsfield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaconsfield), Wilton Park and Latimer as well as a number overseas.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MI19#cite_note-2)
MI19 operated an interrogation centre in Kensington Palace Gardens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_Palace_Gardens), London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London), commanded by Lt. Col. Alexander Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Scotland) OBE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE), known as the "London Cage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Cage)". It was a subject of persistent reports of torture by the prisoners confined there, which included war crimes suspects from the SS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS) and Gestapo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo) held in the facility after World War II.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MI19#cite_note-London_Cage-3)

The BBC reported that MI-19 staff were sent to the Channel Islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Islands) in 1945 to look for evidence of collaboration during the German occupation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_occupation_of_the_Channel_Islands). The intent may have been to silence speculation. The Channel Islands were demilitarised by Britain when France fell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_France), and were occupied by substantial German forces. The islands had no strategic value, unlike Malta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta), and any tactical value would have been outweighed by the effort to maintain forces there. The Channel Islands did contribute to the war effort, by tying up large numbers of German troops who were not available for more aggressive military tasks. There was also a very substantial investment in fortifications, all of which were in the end pointless.[4]
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MI19#cite_note-4)The point here is that since the department was responsible for the interrogation of prisoners of war especially ones suspected of war crimes what the hell is this questionaire doing with then, i can only guess that in some way Michael Farr had witnessed some executions and just maybe one was Anthony (strange is it not that the only form to come to light is this one). Here it may be useful to give some information about Michaels incarceration as a prisoner "

Michael Farr's medals are located in Medal Case 15 , Display Group 2
Born in 1918 in Burma, he was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in the DLI in January 1939. He fought with the 2nd Battalion DLI on the River Dyle and then back on the long retreat towards Dunkirk. He was taken prisoner along with most of his battalion on 27 May 1940 at St Venant in northern France. After his first escape attempt, which also involved a raid on the Camp Commandant's wine cellar, he was sent to a special camp in Poland, where he was kept in a dungeon. He was then moved to Biberach POW Camp and again tried to escape. After several other unsuccessful attempts from Warburg and Eichstatt POW Camps, including one in June 1943 when he tunneled out and made it across the River Danube before he was recaptured, he was finally sent to Colditz Castle. At Colditz, he joined other "hardliners" in the top security prison and worked on the construction of the famous glider in the castle's roof that was only abandoned when the war ended. He also made wine and ran the castle's distillery. Finally liberated in April 1945, Lieutenant Michael Farr was awarded the MBE in January 1946 for his efforts to escape whilst a POW. After the war, he worked for the family firm in Plymouth making "Hawker's Pedlars Sloe Gin". Michael Farr died in January 1993. So a checkered prisoner then, is it possible he was working for military intelligence because if so this whole thing would start to make sense as to why no records or assistance is forthcoming.

Dont know if this makes any sense but i hope it will throw some light on the weird events we are coming up against.

Cheers
Dave

[ivor43]

Hi all.
well at first it seemed that finally we have been given some constructive info. nah. don't we already know the date when the DoD was amended. so is this just a '' lets give them a bit. they might go away ''. Not a Hope in Hell. there is something wrong here which needs sorting.

ivor

[Verrieres]

Update.

The Freedom of information request to have Lt Farrs Liberation form opened from the MI 19 file has been declined with the NA saying if it existed then a duplicate would be in the open file ..which it isnt but is in the index any further enquiries are reccomended to be sent to....THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE!
Round and round we go again!

Best Wishes

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Jim my belief is this is deliberate obstruction by the authorities and has been all along.

[Verrieres]

Update time again.

Three liberation reports identified
Liberation No 1587 L/Cpl Edward
J Watson 2nd Durham Light Infantry,Captured St Venant May 1940 Escaped from St Venant 1940???? File WO208/3334
Liberation No 1058 Lt Col R B Y Simpson Durham Light Infantry File WO208/3332
Liberation No 588 Lt M Farr Durham Light Infantry File WO208/3331 (this I
presume was the original reference)

I`m afraid the files relating to all 3 2DLI are sealed the
range of files/reports available are WO 208\3298 - WO 208\3327 and then from WO
208\3348 -WO 208\3352 those between 208/3328-208/3347 are not available.19 files not
available the 3 identified reports amongst them

Three Gallantry awards for actions at St Venant identified
Captain Stallard DSO
Lt Colonel Simpson DSO
CSM Qualtrough MC

No citations available awards simply state `For Services Prior to Capture`

Lt Farrs personal papers found! He wrote a book (unpublished?) entitled `Wine and War`
First chapter deals with the Dyle and subsequent capture at St Venant no mention of Anthony by name but heres a summary of the St Venant section;-

Lt Farr was Hq company, signals officer his signals equipment was lost at the
Dyle so he took his place..in the barn with the other riflemen ..no orders to
withdraw were received from Brigade the men were forced back to the bank of the
canal where the Germans had infiltrated to the far bank and proceeded to fire
into the DLI`s backs. Lt Farr gathered seven men from HQ and attempted to get
them across the canal but they were under fire from all sides in an attempt to
clear a way through they pushed a truck into the canal before he decided to
turn back with his signals sergeant and take out the snipers. Rushing towards
the ruins of a building on the canal bank the building was hit by a shell and
destroyed the whole area was now under heavy machine gun fire Lt Farr dropped
into a hollow on the canal bank here he remained for several hours lying
undetected by the canal bank watching as the German armour rolled on by he
wrote "If I had detonators I could have destroyed some from my position I felt
so helpless if only I could have stopped the swines!" he went on "My friends
and men I had trained with were blown up before my very eyes" "I should have
done better I should have killed more but always the laughing echo returned ..
you fool with what? Damn it what could you have done!"

Then it was over a German soldier discovered him he was surrounded by the Hun
"all pointing their machine guns at me and cocking their rifles" Farr was
dragged off to the German Hq which was set up nearby and was put before an SS
officer with a large scar across his face the soldiers who had captured him
were "deaths head hussars" SS Storm troopers "I knew nothing I said nothing not
even rank and number I was very bewildered but most of all I was angry, sad and
angry" Farr was taken to a Barn where he found a discarded Belgian blanket
soon he was marched off the SS Officer sneered "We will be in London in 10days"

Farr certainly had no love for the Germans up until his imprisonment in Colditz and refers
to the SS as "murderous swine". He also witnessed the shooting of a 8th DLI officer
in a Camp by a guard too whom he refers to as having the satisfaction of seeing
him hang six years later.



In respect of Colonel Simpson I also found reference to a MiD and on the bottom of the recommendation is
marked `secret` there was a note that this officer was in touch with the war Office by
`secret` means and any references to the award must not include those details.


That's all at present the search for the next piece of the puzzle continues.

Best Wishes

Jim

[ivor43]

Thanks Jim.
Very interesting, i wonder does the files being '' sealed '' refer to the 75 year rule or are they sealed permanently ?. the second puzzle is, why would a MID be classified ' secret ' very odd. This would, to me at least, confirm my suspicion that there is a ' cover up '.
but thinking about this, if there is, then there is a distinct possibility that the Frenchman also found it in the Rodgers investigation. is this why he has become non cooperative in our case. he has been effectively silenced. It might explain why files which should be open to the public are in private hands with no access.

ivor

[dcdl12976]

Jim, great stuff mate.

As Ivor i still have many reservations about the Sealed files i assume from " those between 208/3328-208/3347 are not .19 reports not
available the 3 identified files amongst them" i assume this means the files are NOT Mi9 files, however logic says that the whole series MUST be in some way connected to and/or hold information (maybe) names that involves SOE or one of the MI departments. It is possible though that these files have just not been checked and indexed for release yet (as i said in another post thousands of files are waiting to be processed round the country)

"In respect of Colonel Simpson I also found reference to a MiD and on the bottom of the recommendation is
marked `secret` there was a note that this officer was in touch with the war Office by
`secret` means and any references to the award must not include those details."

This reinforces my belief there is an MI dept involved somewhere here, assuming that Col Simpson was a POW then it may relate to him being in touch by radio or an underground organisation from the camp so may have been providing intelligence via the war office to MI or SOE, shades of Hogans heroes or Allo Allo you may think well maybe but things like that did happen.
Is there any info on where Col Simpson was held in a POW camp (if indeed he was) ? as this may help to explain the secret.

From Farrs information it would appear that he would have been on the canal bank with Anthony and so would have been captured at the same time could it therefore have been he who last saw Anthony alive before he was taken off to an officers Oflag and Anthony taken to an enlisted camp (or otherwise dealt with) after Farr had gone.
From the description the SS involved were certainly Totenkopfverbande

Whilst the officer in the book could have been almost anyone it may well have been Fritz Knöchlein (May 27, 1911, Munich – January 28, 1949) was an SS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel)-Obersturmbannführer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obersturmbannf%C3%BChrer) (Lieutenant Colonel) during the Second World War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_World_War) who was subsequently convicted and executed for war crimes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime). It was in his capacity as a company commander that he gained notoriety, being responsible for the 27 May 1940 massacre (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/massacre) of British (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) prisoners-of-war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners-of-war) at Le Paradis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Paradis) in the Pas-de-Calais (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pas-de-Calais). Ninety-nine members of the 2nd Battalion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battalion) of the Royal Norfolk Regiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Norfolk_Regiment) who had surrendered to his unit in a cattle shed were stood in front of the barn wall, and Knöchlein ordered two machine-guns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine-guns) turned on them, followed by bayoneting and shooting any apparent survivors.

At his war crimes trial Knöchlein claimed that he was tortured during his detention in the "London Cage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Cage)", which the head of the "London Cage" Alexander Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Scotland) dismisses in London Cage as a "lame allegation". According to Knöchlein, he was stripped, deprived of sleep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deprived_of_sleep), kicked by guards and starved. He said that he was compelled to walk in a tight circle for four hours. After complaining to Alexander Scotland, Knöchlein alleges that he was doused in cold water, pushed down stairs, and beaten. He claimed he was forced to stand beside a hot gas stove before being showered with cold water. He claimed that he and another prisoner were forced to run in circles while carrying heavy logs. "Since these tortures were the consequences of my personal complaint, any further complaint would have been senseless," Knöchlein wrote. "One of the guards who had a somewhat humane feeling advised me not to make any more complaints, otherwise things would turn worse for me." Other prisoners, he alleged, were beaten until they begged to be killed, while some were told that they could be made to disappear.

Scotland said in his memoirs that Knöchlein was not interrogated at all at the London Cage because there was sufficient evidence to convict him, and he wanted "no confusing documents with the aid of which he might try to wriggle from the net." During his last nights at the cage, Scotland states, Knöchlein "began shrieking in a half-crazed fashion, so that the guards at the London Cage were at a loss to know how to control him. At one stage the local police called in to enquire why such a din was emanating from sedate Kensington Palace Gardens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_Palace_Gardens).

Upon being found guilty, Knöchlein applied for clemency, arguing that he had a wife and four children that depended on him, but was sentenced to be hanged, a verdict that was carried out on January 28, 1949.

So once again we have a reference to MI9

My understanding is that although the files we want may not be actual MI9 files if they contain reference to MI9 or names of any one connected to or detained in that department then they come under the ruling i have stated elsewhere in this thread.

Cheers now

Dave

[ivor43]

Morning all.

In view of this info it has changed my thinking to a degree. First, from the reports it gave me the impression that the prisoners were marched off into captivity straight away. but this may not have been the case.there were so many men captured at St Venant that to have small groups of men marching across country would have been impossible. Would the groups not have been taken to a holding area away from the front line and held there maybe for a few days. this also may explain something else. We know that there were several British men in the hospital at Calonne,maybe including Anthony, if they were fit enough then would they have been expected to march with the rest, if not, well we know a number of men were shot on 29 may. could this have been the day when the long march started ?
If L/Cpl Watson escaped could he have been the witness that reported Anthony's murder.

now
I`m afraid the files relating to all 3 2DLI are sealed the
range of reports available are WO 208\3298 - WO 208\3327 and then from WO
208\3348 -WO 208\3352 those between 208/3328-208/3347 are not .19 reports not
available the 3 identified files amongst them

i think there is a typo here i think is should read
'' are not. 19 reports etc''
it might be interesting to know if the other 16 refer to other units at St Venant. would this be possible. i have a suspicion they might.

ivor

[Verrieres]

Hello,

Just a little clarification

The files are all MI 19 Files dealing with Liberation Reports etc.

Sorry there are 19 Files unavailable from the range of reference numbers now held at the NA not 19 solitary reports

They are sealed and although the Index states the reports are within these files a Freedom of Information request has ,in the case of Farrs report, been met with a `Sorry we do not have that one Please contact the Ministry of Defence`

Simpson was the DLI Commanding officer in 1945 he was in Camp OFLAG 12B in Bavaria on 14th April 1945 the Germans attempted to force march the occupants away from the advancing Allies a short distance from the Camp the long columns of bedraggled PoWs were mistaken by the USAAF for German Troops Fourteen British officers were killed and 46 were wounded. The camp was liberated two days later with no transport available the British contingent marched back to their own lines.

The MiD was awarded for `Services whilst a PoW` the DSOs and MC for `Services Prior to Capture`

Dave I too believe that Farr must have been on that Canal Bank at the same time as Anthony as he recalls been there for hours afterwards.

Ivor.It would indeed be interesting to see what the other 16 files relate too I will set about trying to find out and let you know.



Jim

[dcdl12976]

Hi Jim thanks for that, if the files are Mi9 then as i understand it they are sealed for 100 years from the date of the youngest file related or mentioned in them and may only be accesed in the first place by the individual mentioned in them if still alive after then the individual may give permission for others to see them (this is on the instructions of the Lord Chamberlain apparently).I would guess it is easier for the clerk to say we dont have the file than to explain the rules.

This would apply I think to he info about the MID secret information as well.

Cheers

Dave

[Verrieres]

Hi Jim thanks for that, if the files are Mi9 then as i understand it they are sealed for 100 years from the date of the youngest file related or mentioned in them and may only be accesed in the first place by the individual mentioned in them if still alive after then the individual may give permission for others to see them (this is on the instructions of the Lord Chamberlain apparently).I would guess it is easier for the clerk to say we dont have the file than to explain the rules.

This would apply I think to he info about the MID secret information as well.

Cheers

Dave
Cheers Dave
Unfortunately that 100 year rule appears very flexible as all of the WO 208 series are MI 19 Files and they are open? From what I can gather some files have in addition to the reports held within have appendices with `other` detailed information and this may be the reason they are `locked`.
The MiD is freely available from the NA for £3.50 I have had my copy for a few years when for a short period the NA were digitising records free of charge,something which was halted without notice a short while after .They now charge for everything unless you can visit in person.
Strangely enough I have read loads of files relating to the murder of British servicemen,read files naming possible collaborators so what is hiding in our files that there seems to be a blanket ban on all of them? Puzzled!

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Yes Jim I agree, when you could download the files for free I got a full set of the ones relating to Laurence of Arabia (including his dental records) over 500 pages if I remember correctly.

Apparently the MI files are like a pyramid and ones with any reference names or even just file reference) to a locked one are also locked, reasons can be many and include names of living agents, unsolved war crimes an possible litigation from living persons who may claim torture or treatment in breech of the Geneva convention etc don't forget we are dealing with spys here and for good reason MI are naturally a secretive organisation.

Cheers

Dave

[ivor43]

Morning all.
Well, if these files are on a 100 year seal then it is probably 'Game Over ' as we are not going to get any further.
But, this has got me wondering. What is the difference between our quest and the Rodgers case. First it appears to have had a lot more publicity. Second , in the beginning they also drew a blank from authorities it wasn't until they were put in contact with the Frenchman that they had any success. Why? Because the Frenchman has 'the Files ', which the u.k. do not accept.
So,although not accepted, was the evidence in the French files sufficient for CWGC to allow the Marker, which is a ''somewhere near this spot' i think. Or, because of the publicity involved, was it allowed as a means of getting the Frenchman and his files out of the picture.
Now, in our case, for reasons best known to himself,the Frenchman will not help Tony.
But what evidence of our own do we have. We have evidence from the RSM that Anthony was somewhere along the Canal Bank. although not exactly where, still a fairly specific location. we know that a German Field Ambulance was operating in the area,and a field hospital was located at Calonne.
Now i believe it is reasonable to assume that Anthony would have been taken to this hospital. on the 27th.
On the 29th it is recorded he is dead.very specific.So it would seem to me that whoever witnessed the death,Must Have Been in the Same Place. so,surely, when the death was reported then the location would also have been reported.
I have the impression that the confirmation of the DoD was given before 46, so would not have been in a Liberation report. could L/Cpl Watson who escaped have been the one who reported it.
Somewhere there must be, i believe, a report with the location of Anthony's death probably with the circumstances surrounding it. But Where?


ivor

[Verrieres]

Over the years I have often had a small nagging doubt that the Q57 and Q80 referred to after Anthony Corkhills name may not be a reference to Forms Q especially as we have not unearthed any direct link to Forms Q ,St Venant and War Crimes indeed we are constantly running into brick walls in our quest to uncover leads.
Tonight was different in my possession I have a couple of pages from The Royal Berks `Missing Men` file again we have several Q57 references but one in particular is, in my eyes anyhow, quite significant. Halfway down the list is the words `5332412 BAKER DIED Q57` Baker was MURDERED there is a War Crimes File documenting his murder, his identification and the investigation in 1946 for the trial. BAKERs case was one of four selected to represent those war crimes reported in May 1940 from the SIX documented in the War Crimes file. Ironic that the last of the two not selected was the murder of a British soldier in Ferme Boulet from which this thread has taken its name/lead ?

Seasons Greetings to All

Jim

[chow]

Thanks Jim.

Have a great Christmas and new year.

A very interesting thread this...I am sure the answer is out there.

maybe one of the two files you mention..

All the best I look forward to more posts on this..

Steve..aka..chow

[ivor43]

hi.
thanks Jim,
seasons greetings to you.
Your last post stirred a niggle i have had for a while re the war crimes files.
Some time ago i wrote re a piece of 'SS' nastiness named Dix. i think he was involved with murders in the St Venant area. and i speculated that he might have been involved in shooting troops in hospital, possibly Anthony.
unfortunately he got himself killed before the end of the war.
Now. as you say not all files were used in prosecution, would have been too many, but what i have been wondering is. when a prosecution has been completed the file would be kept. but if a known murderer was investigated and a file prepared, if it was then found the person had died, what would happen to the file.
would it be buried. there seems to be very few prosecutions for war crimes relating to 1940's so what is the possibility that there are somewhere a heap of files lying around that could not be used which might contain references to many more murders.
The reports re Anthony's murder and others must be somewhere. if we accept the authority's don't have them. then where are they??????.


ivor

[teecee1941]

I would like to say thank you to everyone who has contributed, viewed, talked about or even just thought about this thread. I really appreciate it. I wish you all a peaceful and happy Christmas and a healthy and prosperous New Year.

Thank you,

Tony

[dcdl12976]

Same to you Tony, im sure I speak for all involved when I say we are only sorry we have not been able to help fully and solve this for you SO FAR but don't give up hope new avenues may open up mate.

[dcdl12976]

Jim, I would think the reason the other two Q forms were not used for prosecution was because there were no witnesses and therefore would not have stood as evidence, this would mean the cases are still open and help to explain why they are likely held by MI. I think just maybe one of the men in the hospital was Anthony. Don't forget it may not have been the assaulting units that perpetrated these crimes, more likely he following Feldendarmerie (Field Police) following up one of whose jobs was to search for and round up stragglers, escapees and wounded or hidden enemy.

May be worth contacting the Wiesenthal center see if the have any info on this after all they have been chasing the perpetrators of war crimes for many years with great success.

It would be interesting too see the other pages as el mate if possible.

Ivor, do you have a first name for Dix mate ? it my be useful to investigate him fully.

[Verrieres]

Bearing in mind the NA website has stated that Forms Q are not with them but possibly in the case files of the relevant investigations .Touching on what Dave has said about open cases I took a look online to see if I could find out who might hold these papers? Remember there were only four selected for trial and we have found no mention of Anthony of the DLI in any of them so I believe if they were used at all it was only as background and not actually submitted as evidence. If not then they are still with the MoD or NA.
Moving on I found a reference to Microfilm of Documents ;-
http://www.archives.gov/research/captured-german-records/microfilm/t1021.pdf


GERMAN DOCUMENTS AMONG THE WAR CRIMES RECORDS OF THE
JUDGE ADVOCATE DIVISION, HEADQUARTERS, UNITED STATES ARMY, EUROPE
Introduction
Many German documents from the World War II period are contained in the war crimes case files of
Headquarters, United States Army Europe (HQ USAREUR), Judge Advocate Division, dated 1945-58.
These files contain transcripts of trial testimony, clemency petitions, affidavits, prosecution exhibits,
photographs of concentration camps, etc., as well as original German documents used as evidence in the
prosecution of the numerous war crimes cases, excluding the Nuremberg Trials, concerning atrocities in
concentration camps, atrocities committed on Allied military personnel and Allied fliers who crash landed
in Germany, and other crimes. Only the German documents predating May 8, 1945, have been included
in this filming project.
A data sheet describing the material in each folder microfilmed is included before the items filmed. The
Judge Advocate Division file number has been used to identify each item wherever given. In other
instances whatever identifying information is available, such as the case or exhibit number, has been
given as the item number. Overall provenance for the records is HQ USAREUR. Judge Advocate
Division, as all German documents in the files were made a permanent part of the records of that office;
however, the original German provenance of the items filmed is given as the provenance on the data
sheets.





In the Index is a single file relating to St Venant and another possibly associated

000-11-102, Vol. I
Wehrmacht Graboffizier Karten
Grave registration card of deceased German military personnel of SS-Germania
Division, who died at St Venant, France, on May 25 and 27, 1940



000-11-103, Vol. I
Ortskommandantur Bethune Feldpostnummer 33098
Kriegsgräber
Report of the Ortskommandantur Behtune to the mayor of Lestrom, France, concerning
the listing of German and foreign military graves on index cards. Sep. 1,
1940


It would be interesting to find something else related to St Venant but even this scrap proves efforts were made to identify those units present/responsible for whatever occurred during May 1940

Jim

[ivor43]

morning all.

while browsing stuff on ''War Crimes'' i found the following interesting article.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/nazi-war-criminals-got-away-with-atrocities-because-of-evidence-hidden-in-uk-and-us-archives-8640776.html



ivor

[dcdl12976]

So once again we have reference to MI9 then

[ivor43]

hi.
yes.
MI 19. appears to be a very shadowy set up. what i also find interesting is the date of the article. 26/12. i wonder. could be an interesting programme on Sunday.


ivor

[ivor43]

Jim.
Good Morning.
A very interesting find , my friend.
I would never have considered that the US would have had any documentation from 1940. I suppose they just hoovered up anything in their path and never gave it back to mod. however this may account for their apparent lack of knowledge.
can we now get access to these documents. i have very little trust in MI and even less in USMI.

ivor

[Verrieres]

Jim.
Good Morning.
A very interesting find , my friend.
I would never have considered that the US would have had any documentation from 1940. I suppose they just hoovered up anything in their path and never gave it back to mod. however this may account for their apparent lack of knowledge.
can we now get access to these documents. i have very little trust in MI and even less in USMI.

ivor

Hello Ivor,

I am assuming that these were part of some war crimes evidence as the St Venant trials were overseen by American,British and Canadian personnel? Acces to these documents has been available (Im told) for some time now on an American History Research Site called `FOLD3` which is owned by `Ancestry` I will see what I can find out . Thinking aloud here are those `Grave cards` the ones now in `Private` hands?

Best

Jim

[ivor43]

hi Jim.
further thoughts re ''Grave Cards''.
the impression i have is that the Frenchman has 'files'.while our authorities may not be prepared to accept them i suspect that the US. JAG. may not have the same problem. It may well be that these '' Cards'' are 'index cards' with info extracted from the French files. We will have to see.
Good Luck.

ivor

[dcdl12976]

HQ BAOR also investigated war crimes, just possible any of the files have not yet been transferred to the NA.

[Verrieres]

Thanks to Tony we have viewed these `American records` The Mayors file is simply an instruction on what colour cards German and Foreign graves are to be recorded on and the procedure for viewing these there are no actual cards.
File two related to GERMAN graves at St Venant 40 cards showing original field grave, cemetery, name, unit and date of birth where known. From these cards the majority of SS Germania graves are in the region of rue de guarbecque (Royal Berks and D Comp 2 DLI). The other areas re- Rue de Busnes etc appear to be units associated with 3 Panzer Div. The FOLD3 search is a nightmare

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Thanks Jim so nothing of much use there then

[ivor43]

thanks guys.
typical.
but, if there is a procedure for viewing these cards that should possibly give a clue to where they are, and can the procedure still be followed.
with regard to FOLD 3 is this a possible '' we have to release this. but we don't have to make it easy '' thing. remember they didn't even tell the Germans who were investigating ''War Crimes '' about it.



ivor

[dcdl12976]

A little info on a possible perpetrators of the killings in the area

A little research comes up with Rudolf Dix "Ustuf (Untersturmfuher) (leutnant) with the LSSAH (Liebstandarte Adolf Hitler) they were attached to the SS VT division in France and would likely have been in the St Venant area at the time, They were responsible for the massacre of bout 80 POWs of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment nr Wormhoudt not far from Dunkirk.

[ivor43]

Dave.
this was the guy i wrote about. but i lost my link to him.
a very good candidate.


ivor

[dcdl12976]

Though so mate, just so happens he was OC 3 Zug (platoon) of 8 Kompany 2 Battalion under Otto Baum who was in command at the time of the Wormhoudt massacre for which he was incidently never brought to trial, was at some time member of the Totenkoph division and most photos of him show him wearing the deaths head collar patch rather than the SS runes (ring any bells from a previous post).
LSSAH was I reserve for Amy group B at this time and therefore would have been following up the Division as it moved forward to clear stragglers from the area.

A file sent to us mentions a man with a pistol and another with a bayonet it seems obvious to me the one with the pistol is likely an officer.

[Baconwallah]

...the LSSAH (Liebstandarte Adolf Hitler) they were attached to the SS VT division in France and would likely have been in the St Venant area at the time...

At the time they were still in Army Group B Reserve.

John

[ivor43]

hi Dave.
when you look at the records there was only one prosecution from the 1940's and that was of Fritz Knochlien in 1948, for La Paradis Massacre. the only other recorded for 1940 was that at Wornhoudt. from which there where NO witnesses.
The problem appears to be that, whilst La Paradis shocked even the SS and records were kept by them. But a couple of soldiers shot in the Hospital at St Venant or Calonne and no doubt other places as well. were of little concern. so there would be no record, except a Death Cert. So unless these records can be found i fear we are stuck.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

I doubt the SS were in the habit of issuing death certificates for the Allied prisoners they shot.

John

[ivor43]

hi John.
i was thinking of PoW's shot while in hospital. i assume that a death cert would have been issued by a member of the staff.


ivor

[ivor43]

John.
you say that SS VT were in the reserves at the time, but as the Germans took Haverskirk on 26th i think it was. what would be the chances of the reserves being in the area by 29th.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

The Leibstandarte was much further to the north, between St Omer and Calais, on the 26th. From there they advanced east towards Wormhoudt.

As most civilians in the area had fled and did not return until the first week of June, I don't think there would be many hospital staff left to fill in forms. Those civilian attendants still functioning would have had more important things to worry about. And besides, filling in forms for patients just murdered by the SS would probably have been a very bad idea in any case.

Identification in most cases was not effected until the temporary graves were relocated, and then in a rather haphazard way. The extant grave lists demonstrate that only too clearly. Misspelled names, wrong numbers, no names or numbers at all.

John

[teecee1941]

The Leibstandarte was much further to the north, between St Omer and Calais, on the 26th. From there they advanced east towards Wormhoudt.

As most civilians in the area had fled and did not return until the first week of June, I don't think there would be many hospital staff left to fill in forms. Those civilian attendants still functioning would have had more important things to worry about. And besides, filling in forms for patients just murdered by the SS would probably have been a very bad idea in any case.

Identification in most cases was not effected until the temporary graves were relocated, and then in a rather haphazard way. The extant grave lists demonstrate that only too clearly. Misspelled names, wrong numbers, no names or numbers at all.

John

[dcdl12976]

Tony, I assume you meant to post a comment on your last post mate. ?

[ivor43]

good day all.
John, i have been looking at ''the Order of Battle'' regarding Army Group B. and accepting that there may be some errors, it makes interesting reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_battle_for_the_Battle_of_France#OKH_Reser ve

on the above link, if you scroll down the reserves, This is a Lot of Men and Equipment. holding in a relatively small area.
If my reading is correct this area is networked with ditches and Canals, and that makes it,as you, an ex tankie will know well not suitable for tank warfare. This was a concern with ''High Command'' and part of the reason for the 'Stop' order. several of the field commanders were of the opinion that the tanks should be saved as the terrain was more suitable for Infantry as the approach to Dunkirk was considered a ''mopping up'' exercise.
Now, we have 2 SS Divisions the SS VT and the SS ''Der Fuhrer'' as well as the SS ''Adolph Hitler '' Reinforced Regiment. This is a lot of highly mobile SS men. so i would question the accuracy of knowing where any particular group of men were at any given time. especially as they were out of the ''action ''.
I would not be surprised if some one like Dix would be capable of going off on his own initiative seeking some murder and mayhem. As an SS Lt i doubt he would have been challenged very often.
With regard to the Death Cert's to an extent i would agree with you. But, with regard to the Local Hospital at St Venant. yes staff may have left, it would depend on their dedication to their patients. But in the case of Calonne that would not apply as this was a German Post.
now, finally.The Men shot in the hospital at St Venant were Known, i think that there is a very strong probability that Sid was one, the two who possibly were shot in Calonne, were known. These were not Field Grave Exhumations 18 months later and even Anthony's lack of ''Dog Tags '' may not have been a problem presumably he would have had his Pay Book. Also i do not think the issue of 'Death Certs '' would have been a problem to whatever med staff were there. as once the murders had been committed the perps moved on.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

This is a lot of highly mobile SS men. so i would question the accuracy of knowing where any particular group of men were at any given time. especially as they were out of the ''action ''.
I would not be surprised if some one like Dix would be capable of going off on his own initiative seeking some murder and mayhem.

To get from where LAH was assembling for the attack on the Dunkirk perimeter to Saint Venant, Dix would have had to move across the divisional areas of 20 Inf Div, 29th Motor Div, 6th Pz Div, 8th Pz Div and SS Verf Div. From St Venant to Merville, add 3rd Pz Div and SS Totenkopf Div. I would call that impossible, even with air support from several squadrons of flying pigs.

Yes, people were shot in hospitals. But they too would be buried more or less where they fell, next to the aid post. Aid post moved on, graves remained - often in the middle of nowhere. And keeping records of shot prisoners would have been hazardous in the extreme, especially for Wehrmacht personnel. Even had they cared, which they probably didn't anyway.

John

[ivor43]

John.
the map tells me that St Omer is about 16 miles from St Venant. about 25 mins drive. less if they were south of the place. and if my memory is correct 3pz etc were to the east of St Venant. any way Dix had been photographed with ''deaths head ''badges on.
i have stood down the squadrons of flying pigs.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

LAH was halfway between St Omer and Gravelines, Ivor, not south of St Omer.

A 25 k drive on a peaceful day in spring is not quite the same as the same distance across the divisional areas of three infantry and two armoured divisions in a contested advance, I am afraid. And then there were refugees, shot up roads, traffic jams with horse drawn corps artillery and all the other mod cons of 1940.

Make no mistake about the SS discipline. They may have been a threat to all and sundry, but within the Div and Corps discipline was discipline. A commander leaving his unit to go on a killing spree thirty miles down the road would have found himself in serious trouble indeed. Not for the killing but for his disobedience.

John

[teecee1941]

Dave, sorry about that but I was having a hell of a time trying to type out a complete sentence. The words kept breaking up and running into each other.

In the meantime, I asked Jim the question I was going to ask on here. It was a geographical question about Saint Venant, so, no harm done.

Thanks again,

Tony

[ivor43]

John.

Mon Ami, you have defended your position admirably and for this i salute you. I might have awarded you a medal, but i do not have any handy.a accept your arguments. it would not have been a Sunday Afternoon drive in the country. It is a pity as he seemed a natural for the part.
And i fully agree with you regarding the discipline within the SS. this is highlighted by the reaction of the SS Officers who found the ''La Paradise'' aftermath. I think that Knochlien became a marked man by his own people.

But.
in post #690, Dave poses the following question.

', was at some time member of the Totenkoph division and most photos of him show him wearing the deaths head collar patch rather than the SS runes'

is there a possibility of him transferring between the units.
this is my parting shot.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

is there a possibility of him transferring between the units

Very unlikely, Ivor. The Totenkopf regiments consisted of former concentration camp guards. A man from the Leibstandarte, Hitler's bodyguard, would not have relished a transfer.

Re Dix: i can't find any photo of him so can't deny or confirm his membership of the Totenkopf. Two notes, if I may: 1/ it may have been a pre-war uniform; 2/ there was at least one other Rudolf Dix.

John

[ivor43]

thanks John.
Dave had the link so we will have to ask him.
in the meantime i will look around


good night

ivor

[Baconwallah]

Nos da Ivor.

John

[ivor43]

Good Morning all.
John.
you were right there were 2 Rudolf Dix. one we can forget

1) Rudolf Dix B 1884 D 1952.
a lawyer who was part of the defence team at Nuremburg. was at sometime a member of the German Gentleman's Club. and certainly not Pro Nazi. so i think we can forget him.

2) i have a one line entry from an '' Axis History Forum''.

'SS Pz Gren Rg2 (20.9.43)
18. (AUFKL) Komp. SS.OSTF Rudolf Dix.

still looking


ivor

[ivor43]

i think i have the right guy.

Ostuf. Rudolf Dix
Postby Moniroth You-Bell on 12 Apr 2013, 07:16


Ostuf. Rudolf Dix


B:16.12.19
Ostuf. 18(Aufkl.)/SS-PGR.2 9.43
Ostuf. LSSAH 4.42
Ustuf. 8./LSSAH 12.40
SS:357248 Ostuf:20.4.42


while i have no real idea of German.I suspect this is an extract of his service record. Promoted to I/C 8 Pl 12.40. and to Lt on 20.4.42. So prior to 12/40 he was just an OR maybe NCO.
Both these within the ''Adolph Hitler''. No Mention of ''Totemkopf''.
I wonder. could he have used 'False Insignia' to cover up his actions.

will keep looking


ivor

[dcdl12976]

Ivor, sorry mate but I cant find the site I found the reference to Totenkoph now so I guess we have to consider that a no no

[Baconwallah]

while i have no real idea of German.I suspect this is an extract of his service record. Promoted to I/C 8 Pl 12.40. and to Lt on 20.4.42. So prior to 12/40 he was just an OR.
Both these within the ''Adolph Hitler''.

Quite correct, Ivor. Dix was a 2nd Lt (Unterscharführer), age 20, at the time of the Fall of France. He is not mentioned in any of the books I have on the subject of the SS and must have been a very obscure junior officer who never rose past the rank of Lt.

John

[Verrieres]

I might be able to help a little more on this but I am waiting on the postman to deliver me a copy of the `St Venant trial papers` I don't know if it actually came to trial but these are the papers detailing the suspects and the units involved I am reliably informed ? We will see of course, I must point out that there are no mentions of Anthony in the file and they concentrate on the `four` adopted cases,
In respect of the `deaths head` insignia it has to be remembered that German Army Panzer units also wore a skull insignia on their lapels...............OOooops Is that the door bell?

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Jim I look forward to the suspects list, yes I meant to mention about the Panzer units deaths head but clean forgot. There was instance of the Russians mistakenly executing Panzer troops in there black uniforms with deaths head collar patches believing them to be SS

[ivor43]

John.
as it took him 16 months to go from 2nd to Lt, i think there is a distinct possibility he may have been killed before he could progress any further. as i understand it he was killed somewhere in the east.

[Baconwallah]

as i understand it he was killed somewhere in the east.

Wouldn't surprisae me, Ivor.

John

[ivor43]

John.
Maybe you can answer this. Would the SS remove their own people if they ''broke the rules''. I was looking through ''Fieldgraw net'' for any possible ref to Dix, and an item in it referred to an execution of an Officer. i think it was in German so i didn't bother with it. I know that discipline was quite hard in the SS but that seems a bit extreme.



ivor

[Baconwallah]

That certainly happened, ivor. Discipline was harsh, lapses were not tolerated. Mind you, their idea of right and wrong was rather different from ours.

As an afterthought: discipline within the SS was rather like the discipline of the Freikorps, the volunteer companies who fought the socialist and communist insurrections in Germany in 1918-1920. A crime against the group or its members would be punished quickly and without compassion, a crime against outsiders on the other hand was rarely a problem.

John

[Verrieres]

i think i have the right guy.

Ostuf. Rudolf Dix
Postby Moniroth You-Bell on 12 Apr 2013, 07:16


Ostuf. Rudolf Dix


B:16.12.19
Ostuf. 18(Aufkl.)/SS-PGR.2 9.43
Ostuf. LSSAH 4.42
Ustuf. 8./LSSAH 12.40
SS:357248 Ostuf:20.4.42


while i have no real idea of German.I suspect this is an extract of his service record. Promoted to I/C 8 Pl 12.40. and to Lt on 20.4.42. So prior to 12/40 he was just an OR maybe NCO.
Both these within the ''Adolph Hitler''. No Mention of ''Totemkopf''.
I wonder. could he have used 'False Insignia' to cover up his actions.

will keep looking


ivor

Well the file arrived but I have yet to look at it in detail but while we wait I`m afraid I`m going to add a little fuel to the `Dix` fire. I do not think you have the right `Dix`. There are lots of Dixs and there are five listed on the German `Grabersuche Online` all killed in action/died . One is an Oberstumbanfuhrer Rudolf Herman Dix born 16th February 1917 presumably by the rank a member of the SS .There is no recorded date of death for him but he died on the Eastern Front .Rudolf Hermann Dix has not yet been transferred to a military cemetery and according to their information his grave is still at the following location : Zhitomir - Ukraine. Another possibility for you Ivor?

Jim

[ivor43]

Thanks Jim.
first. may i wish you all a Happy New Year.
My friend i am only too pleased that you have found some more as mine appears very unlikely. so well done.


ivor

[ivor43]

morning .
and a happy new year to all.
Once the LSSAH was taken out of the picture, then the ''Totenkopf'' takes it's place. They were active in the area. So i have been looking at their activity after May 40. interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_SS_Panzer_Division_Totenkopf#Barbarossa_and_th e_Demjansk_Pocket


this puts them in the area.
see following link.


http://www.distancefromto.net/between/Kharkov/Zhytomyr


so i think your Rudolf Hermann Dix could be a very strong candidate. He appears to be in the right places at the right times and even dies in the right area. Maybe we should look at him in more detail if possible.
Dave this could be the guy you found the photo's of.




ivor

[dcdl12976]

May well be mate, I shall investigate when I have time

[Verrieres]

To the West of St Venant there were members of the SS-Verfügungs-Division which in 1940 consisted of elements of Deutschland, Germania and Der Führer. Germania was withdrawn in late 1940 to form the nucleus of The Germania Division.
Extensive investigations into which actual units were at St Venant. Germanias III Regt was found to have been in the area of the atrocities on two seperate occasions and invetigations then centred upon tracing men of this unit. A German clerk in the SS Germania Unit SS Sturmbanfurher Erich Heinrich claimed that had such atrocities in the area occured and been known then at Divisional,Regimental and Battalion there would have been a death sentence passed upon the men respnsible. However there is a note that the commander DEMELHUBER`s character is well known and bearing this in mind this PoWs statement bears no weight.
A second SS prisoner Stumbanfurher Robert Kraft is described as a`stupid type`who was a Private soldier in 6th Coy in 1940 and who claims to remember none of his units movements for the period.
From Germania III efforts were made to trace
Medical Officer Dr Strotz
Admin Officer Schmidt (Killed)
Hauptsturmfurhrer Willy Franz MT Officer
Sturmfurhrer Kling
Plus a further 12 SS men of lower ranks .Presumably to question in relation to events/actions rather than as direct information into their actual involvement in any crime?
Each step of the investigation has summaries and conclusions attached at each step one significant finding was something Ivor touched upon regarding Insignia it was found that Germania did not wear the same uniform throughout the Regt but wore a mixture of Camo Smocks and field grey service uniforms this may have been down to supply but it was noted that members of the Regiment whilst retaining their SS lightening flashes and swasticas on their helmets removed sleeve eagles ,rank and cuff title insignia in an effort to conceal their SS identity and in particular associaton with GERMAIA.
In one of the summaries it is noted that up until this point no proof of a Regimental order has been obtained and the orders possibly came from a Battalion Commander or lower. Importance was put on the interrogation of DEMELHUBER who had been traced to a PoW facility near Hamburg.It was agreed that DEMELHUBER be asked what he knew of the perpertrators and what action (if any) was taken against them.If KARL MARIA DEMELHUBER can not confirm the identities of other supporting units at St Venant then he as sole commander would(Should) be held responsible for the actions of his men.
It was identified at this time that 16th Company (Engineers) SS Germania were forward of the main Germania battle group and fighting `independently` it was agreed that members of this Company be sought and brought for interrogation.

I hope this helps its as far as I`ve got up until now
Jim

[ivor43]

Thanks Jim.

very interesting.
You may, have explained a puzzle as well.
If you recall the RWF.WD recalled that when they were approaching St Venant along the canal they came across some Bridging equipment which they captured. the following day a party of Engineers was seen approaching from Haverskirk.
Could it be possible that this equipment and engineers were from this 16th Co (Engineers) SS Germania.


Ivor

[ivor43]

Good Morning All.
Found a interesting article on the actions of the 22 May to the 27th May 40. From the German perspective. you will need to scroll down to a picture of German Troops in Paris.

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=2475

Ivor.

[dcdl12976]

Jim it was nothing unusual for there to be a mix of cammo smocks and field grey uniforms within the same SS unit and there was not supposed to be any insignia on the smocks other than SNCO and officer ranks which consisted of bars and ok leaves in either green for lower ranks or yellow for generals but the general thing was for no rank to be worn, regarding he removal of insignia this was a general order to all SS units in France from Himmler and not jus to Germania.

Ivor, it does not surprise me in the slightest there was a Engineer bridging unit in the area after all it is riddled with canals and rivers so would have been standard practice to have one available in case of blown bridges on the line of attack.

Cheers
Dave

[ivor43]

Dave.
The puzzle to me was, who the stuff belonged to. i was aware that 3Pz had bridging gear, but i did not realise that Germania would also have had similar equipment, and that they were that close. it was the bit about the engineers being an ''independent fighting unit'' that made me realise it could be theirs.
It would be interesting to know when and which way they got there. From the accounts we have there would be a quite narrow time frame for them to get there.
Interesting.



ivor.

[dcdl12976]

Hi Ivor, I suspect it was this sub unit as engineers were more commonly know as pioneers in the German army
SS-VT-Pioneer Abeilung

[dcdl12976]

I believe the Divisional commander would have attached them to the Infantry attacking the area because of the number of canals and rivers that may have needed crossing by raft or a pontoon bridge put in place by the Pioneers for the infantry to replace any potentually blown bridge.Therefore tey would haven right in the thick of the fighting though probably not involved in the man assaults unless needed.

[dcdl12976]

By the way Karl Maria Demelhuber was held in Bridgend POW camp in 1945 in special camp XI Island Farm from which on 10th-11the March 1945 seventy German prisoners tunnelled to freedom www.islandfarm.fsnet.co.uk (http://www.islandfarm.fsnet.co.uk)

Worth a look cause the "guest" list reads like a whos who of the German high command

[Verrieres]

I was aware of Himmler`s orders to remove insignia which were made in 1941 and applied I believe to the Totenkopfverband here their unique Deaths Head was replaced by the SS runes. Several units removed insignia in Russia for obvious reasons.A General order was made in April 1945 after several cases of SS personnel being shot out of hand after SS Divisional troops were mistaken for concentration camp guards but I had not heard of such an order in 1940?
The smocks worn in May 1940 were M38 and M40 pattern which fitted over the uniform rather than replaced it the only insignia was an arm eagle I believe but unofficially soldiers added cuff titles etc which the authorities ordered removed. The insignia in the War Crimes File refers to all SS identifying insignia but it was noted not all Waffen SS men did this and no orders divisionally had been issued.In 1940 the SS were not yet known to have been involved in widespread atrocities .
Demelhuber was found in a PoW camp near Hamburg and brought to Britain for interrogation in relation to St Venant. Polish authorities asked for him to be handed over to them where he was wanted for atrocities in 1939 the application was ,for unknown reasons, refused and Demelhuber was released by the British in 1948. DEMELHUBERS testimony/report is not in this file the last date I can find up until now is 1946.
Some documents refer to other cases and this once again appears to incomplete with several important statements missing and no continuity of evidence which Ivor will agree is needed for a successful case.

Best
Jim

[dcdl12976]

So more missing documents then Jim possibly because they refer to other cases which may or may not be closed, I just wonder if these are more still held in MI9 files.

The order in 1940 was not to remove all insignia as such but rather to remove the runic collar patches which at that time had a 1, 2 , or 3 numeral on them an to replace them with the simple rune patch. Apparently it was not very clear and as often happens was read differently by different people so some removed the patches and all other insignia as well whilst others simply ignored it and of course others did exactly as the order stated thus leaving a mishmash within any unit.

Cheers

Dave

[ivor43]

Hi all.
I have spent several hours today reviewing stuff in the light of Jim's independent fighting Engineer Co. and my last link to the German account.

I have gone back to the RWF.WD, to see if there is anything that may have been missed. I am working on the assumption that it is 1 day out.
We know that the 1St Bn was approaching St Flores on the evening of 23rd when they came under fire. I am still of the opinion that this may have been F.F.
The W.D. states that Enemy Troops were reported BETWEEN St Floris and St Venant. note Between.
The following day (24th) the advance continues and Bridging Equipment is captured,again,Between St Floris and St Venant. the Eng Co troops from the previous night ? This is a much more restricted area than i first realised. also enemy forces are seen approaching from Haverskirque, from the North. Eng's again? On the 26th when the advance continues they come under fire from a point on the North side of the Canal.
This would seem to indicate that the German's were either IN or Around Haverskirque or between Haverskirque and St Venant from 23rd.
On the same day the HQ Party came under heavy Mortar fire when trying to cross the Bridge.
Now i do not know the range of Mortars maybe 1,000+ yds. so the German's had to be that close to the bridge.
For some reason i had assumed that the patrol that passed through St Venant had come from the South, i think this is wrong. I now think it came from the North. Could it have been acting as cover for the bridging stuff till it got over the St Venant bridge. Or was this patrol part of the Eng Co.
This bring me back to the question of the Defensive line Being St Floris. which is where 2/5 WY were holding ,If it was accepted that St Venant was in enemy hands from 23rd then why was the actions of 1 RWF etc not notified to ''arty'' or why wern't their orders changed. Or were they expected to fall back to St Floris.
O.K. we will never know, but ....


ivor

[Verrieres]

No statement from DEMELHUBER but there is a note stating he had been questioned and named the only SS unit operating inside St Venant itself together with its Commander at the time.
Jim


To; Lt Ritchie
J.A.G.S Office
From; W.C.I.U/ L.D.C
__________________________________________________ __
J.A.G REF;MD/JAG/FS/7/5(2F)
　
SUBJECT; MURDER OF BRITISH PRISONERS OF WAR ST VENANT 1940
　
Further to the telephone conversation of this morning (Lt Ritchie-RSM Ullman ) it is confirmed herewith that information so far obtained from OBERGRUPPENFUHRER DEMELHABER and other sources;- the II BN /SS Regt GERMANIA was the only unit in action in St Venant itself., and III BN/SS Regt GERMANIA the only formation which fought in LE NOIR MAILLOT near to St Venant.
The O.C II BN GENERAL MAJOR (BRIGADEFUHRER)
WERNER DOERFLER-SCHUBAND
Is now held in custody by US authorities at;-
C.I.C No 4 -HERSBACH (GERMANY)
And it is believed it would be useful to have him made available for interrogation at an early date. DOERFLEUR-SCHUBAND was with the Bn during its fighting at St Venant.
A detailed report of the interrogation of DEMELHABER as well as his own voluntary statement
will be submitted in due course.
Meanwhile enquiries are being conducted at P.W.I.B and at USFET FRANKFURT for the whereabouts of other persons who might give useful information.


I assume `only` unit refers to SS not units in General? Alt spelling Werner Dörffler-Schuband but interrogation records held by Americans on.......FOLD3



Statement below of Heinz KOEKE 1st Germania 1940



CONFIDENTIAL
Report No. WCIU/LD0/LDC 1262/( a) - UWMPB
JAG Ref MD/JAG/FE/7/5 (2F)

.VOLUNTARY STATEMENT of PRISONER of WAR

LD 1189 SS-Obersturmfuhrer Heinz KOEKE

Report of my service in the `GERMANIA` Regt
The GERMANIA Regt was formed from the Regt SS2 of the pool of reserve troops (Verfuegungstruppe) and was named thus at the Reich Party Rally at Nuremberg in 1936. The various Bn's were garrisoned as follows :-I Bn. at HAMBURG-; 2 Bn at ANOLSEN; 3 Bn at ',WOLTERDINGEN. 3 Bn was transferred in 1937 to RADOLFSZELL am BODENSEE. The Regt Staff and the Regt units were at HAMBURG.
On 9.9.1934. I came to the 1st Bn and belonged to 3 Coy until I was wounded on 17.7.1941. In April 1937 I became Unterscharfuhrer and my appointment was that of Gruppenfuehrer (Section Commander). As Scharf\ihrer I was appointed Officer in charge of the Goy in the autumn of 1938 and
in that capacity I took part in the Polish campaign.
After its termination the Regt was transferred to the area of BERNN, Czechoslovakia and some time later about the end of Nov 1939, to the KITZINGEN area. 1 Bn was at MARKBRIET At the beginning of February 1940 the Regt was moved to Western Germany, into the area of BECKUM in WESTPHALIA and towards the end of March 1st Bn moved to WALTROP which we left on 10th May 1940 to go into action on the .Western Front.
On the way to HOLLAND we passed BREDA. We had no contact with the enemy in Holland. Our first battle was at .ACHTERBRODE, Belgium, in mid-May, against rearguards of the French army. When the fighting - -which lasted only a short, time - was finished, we continued on the way to France. After several days' journey during which we had no contact with the enemy, we passed ARRAS and reached LILLERS later on. There we took up positions on the Northern exit of the town. On the same day, in the afternoon, it must have been near the end of May, our Coy was advanced to the LA BASSEE CANAL. We then moved along the CANAL in a south easterly direction, crossed the canal by means of an emergency bridge, reached ROBECQ as Coy in reserve.
In that area I saw two shot-up English or French tanks. ROBECQ must have boon taken by 2 Bn because a comrade Of mine, Rottenfuehrer WETEKOMP, was killed in action there. In ROBECQ I noticed 8 to 10 English soldiers who were prisoners, some of them were wounded and were being bandaged by our medical orderlies. In ROBECQ we remained until about 11 o'clock at night and were later withdrawn again via the same route. Lighters in the canal were on fire. In the e LAMIQUALLERIE area,, not far from BUSNES, we took up positions and on the next day again about noon, we reached the LA BASSEE canal again, where the LILLERS-ST. VENANT road crosses the canal.
There our Coy received orders to attack in the direction of ST.VENANT in order to form a bridgehead across the canal. An emergency bridge had been thrown across the canal at this point as a result Of which our Engineers Coy had lost two vehicles because the drivers, ignorant of the position, had driven across the bridge in order to turn round in ST. VENANT. The two trucks stood, shot-up, on the road up from the canal to the town. At that time I knew only that the unit on the left , I cannot remember which - had already made contact with the enemy on the other side of the canal, I do not know which troops were deployed on our right either We were not told because the orders were given hurriedly and perfunctorily. At that time the OC Regt was Standartenfuehror DEMELHUBER, Battalion commander was Sturmbannfuehrer SCHMIDTHUBER, , my Coy commander was Hauptstummfuehrer Franz SCHREIBER and my Platoon commander was Unterstummfurher HAUS. The other two second in commands of our Platoon were Oberscharfuehrer WISCH and Unterscharfuehrer Rolf SUEL.
-.
WISCH was killed in action in Russia and SUHL is in Russian captivity in Siberia. At that time I had orders to proceed 50 metres on the right of the road leading to ST VENANT. I and my section went over the bridge first. Right and left of the road there stood some houses and I had some cover from gardens and hedges. After I had gone about 50 metres out of the covered area the ground began to rise a little and we were fired on by several Heavy MGs so that it was impossible to proceed further. The order came to dig in and I was able to reach a small trench which was also occupied by my Zugfuehrer. We lay there alone for some time as our men who were huddled together in the dip could not gain any ground on account of the concentrated fire. We knew we were face to face with British soldiers of good quality and after mortars had been brought against us, we expected a counter-attack. Heavy arms were 'brought into play on our side and the enemy's fire slackened off. We were lying right opposite the water-tower and on the railway line, which was hidden by the trucks standing there, we could pick out Heavy MG positions. The distance was some 5-600 metres. Late in the afternoon dive-bombers were sent in against ST VENANT and I presume that after the air attack most of the English and French troops evacuated ST VENANT.
We remained in position during the night and here and there left of the road battle noises were heard, The next day our platoon became the reserve platoon and we were able to clean our arms which had been dirtied by the rain in the proceeding night. About 10 or clock in the evening we were relieved by the 7th company. When we mustered on the road south of the canal our Motor Transport arrived and was shot at by artillery and turned round and drove back empty in the LILLERS direction.
We marched to BUSNES where we waited for our MT. After we had a days rest in the LILLERS area we marched to LA BASSEE canal but this time arrived at a spot 4km west of the emergency bridge. A little way from the canal we came under heavy artillery fire and as we were still marching in close order the company had 7 fatal casualties.
At midday we went on in a more or less westerly direction towards ST VENANT. The town was clear of enemy troops and we assembled on the edge. It was then I heard that our Engineer Coy had lost 27 men killed in the fighting on the canal north of ST VENANT. We then marched through ST VENANT, crossed the second canal and in the evening arrived at HAVERSKERSQUE 2 km north of ST VENANT. Here we were supposed to go into rest but on the same evening the order to move off came and we marched through the wood in a general northerly direction,
A little way on the other side of the wood a halt was called on the LILLERS-HAZEBROUCK railway line near STEENBECQUE and a search was made for quarters. At MARBERQUE we spent the night in a barn and the next morning moved off in the HAZEBROUK-CASSEL direction. We did not get as far as CASSEL.
The next day we were back as far as ST QUENTIN where we had three days rest. After that the only thing I can report on is a battle which we fought near ROSIERES with French Colonial troops. Our platoon had taken over the guarding of a part of the place and did not go into action. This day (6th or 7th June) the Comander of the second platoon Oberscharfuehrer BAHNSEN was killed and buried in the cemetery there. Then, acting on orders, I took over the command of the 2nd Platoon. Neither during the time of the French campaign nor at any time later have I ever heard of any shooting of English or French prisoners. I have made the above statement voluntarily and without compulsion.
(Sgd) Heinz KOEKE
(Sgd) M. ULLMAN, WOI
　
Signed in my presence: LDO 12 July 1946
Distribution Copies
JLG : 2
AG-3 1
(VW) File 3
　


*****SCHMIDTHUBER *****executed on February 27, 1947 for War Crimes (Yugoslavia)

Statement below of ROBERT KRAFT 2BN GERMANIA

Report No;- WCIU/LDC/1259(a)-U/WMPS
JAG. Ref; MD/JAG/FS/7/5(2F)

VOLUNTARY STATEMENT BY PRISONER OF WAR
LD 1216 SS-OSTUF ROBERT KRAFT 2BN GERMANIA

My position
At that time I was Rottenfuhrer and drove a vehicle (Kuebelwagen) in the 6 Coy, 2 Bn , this was . the vehicle in which the Gruppenfuhrer (Section Commander) of the heavy Machine gun and his runner, together with the apparatus„ were driven. It was my duty to drive the section during battle to the position ordered. As soon as the section dismounted, I had to drive the truck some distance away under cover, according to the circumstances, and to see that it was safe from air observation and artillery fire.
The Campaign in Northern France
We came from the ANTWERP area area and drove towards ARRAS As far as I remember no fighting took place in the course of this journey. The direction was then changed and we drove into the area of BURBURE„ LILLERS. In LILLERS we were bombed by German aircraft when entering the town. We then continued in the direction of the canal and, as far as I remember, we were pushed out to the left and went via BUSNES into action in the area of GUARBECQUE, on the canal. The fighting during the first few days was severe and we had about 16 dead . Opposing us were English units, who wanted to hold the canal. After a few days it became quiet and the English units were withdrawn. The Battalion assembled and we continued on in the direction of ST. VENANT. We had no fighting during this journey but I believe other units had moved along this road before us We then continued into the HAZEBROUCK area.
I can no longer say which road we took.
Of Prisoners of War during this period I only saw one Englishman. Who was wounded and was taken by a medical orderly to a First Aid Post situated on the road LILLERS . I do not know of any other fighting in this area. I testify by my signature that I know nothing of the shooting of Prisoners of War nor have I ever heard any talk about it.
I have made the above statement voluntary and without compulsion.

(sgd) Robert KRAFT
Signed in my presence: (sgd) M.ULLMAN W.O.I.
LDC 12 July 1946.
Distribution: copies.
JAG 2
AG3 (VW) 1
File 5



Statement below of SS Hastuf- Herbert CHRISTIANSEN (Technical Column III GERMANIA)

Report No; WCTU/LDC/1260 (a) -U/ML
JAGs Reference;- MD/JAG/FS/7/5 (2F)

CONFIDENTIAL

VOLUNTARY STATEMENT BY PRISONER of WAR
LD 1187 SS-Hastuf HERBERT CHRISTIANSEN
STATEMENT OF MY ACTIVITIES IN MAY1940

　
　
In my position as TF.,K II (2nd in Command Technical Mobile Company) with the Bn.Staff, I worked together with the T.F.K I on all questions connected with technical and administrative matters, I had. nothing to do with tactical matters. I was mostly with the vehicle repair column, which was under my orders. Here un-serviceable vehicles were repaired.. Therefore we drove at the tail end of the marching column and. were about 10 - 15 km behind the battalion Battle Hq during engagements.
The Bn reached LILLERS district from the South or Southeast from the neighbourhood of .ARRAS. The attack in the district of St. VENANT took place after the advance air-field at LIGNY LEZ AIRES had been captured. I got orders at the air-field to go into quarters with the repair-column and all vehicles which were not needed during the fighting at, LIGNY LEZ AIRES. The repair column moved into quarters in the school and remained there with the Coy supply columns which were parked in the immediate vicinity until the fighting had ceased in this district and the march was continued to the Northwest. The schoolhouse was not inhabited and the lady of the house returned only after a few days. Her husband the teacher, was a French soldier and she told us, had been captured by the Germans in this neighbourhood.
During the first days I drove back on the road of the advance to look for a lorry that had fallen out at ARRAS and to bring it up. Also on the other days I was often on the road to obtain missing M/T spares. Several times I was together with the fighting units.
During the first day I met 1 Coy, which had received a direct hit shortly before I arrived, during an Artillery attack; it might have been in BUSNES, I also heard there that my Battalion n Commander Hauptsturmfuehrer POLEWACS had been wounded. He had been shot in the stomach from an M.G.-burst. I visited him in the field hospital and the next day brought him a few things -which he wanted from his luggage. A company commander took over the Battalion in his stead.
I might have been fairly often at the Battalion Battle HQ, but do not remember any particulars.
During my last visit to the Battalion I found it in the last phases of an attack on a stretch of wood. After reconstructing the situation on the map, which was not at my disposal at the time, it might have been the "BOIS D'AMONT", Vehicles stopped on the road North-west from HAVERSKERQUE and picked up troops for the pursuit. Recce - troops, arrived continually, and more were still on the way. The enemy had evacuated the terrain en masse during the night, as far as I remember, and the reminder feigned a full complement in a Self Sacrificing fight..
I cannot remember having seen any Prisoners of War on that morning, but I saw some dead on the western side of the road who undoubtedly were killed in action, as they were still in possession of their weapons and some still partly in their positions. I myself did not leave the road. I spoke however, with several colleagues whose impressions of the fighting were still fresh. I was shown the position whore 10 Coy had to interrupt their attack temporarily as the Company Cmdr Obersturmfuchrer POLETIN had been killed and there were further casualties. In my opinion this place must have been several hundred metres south of the wood "BOIS D'AMONT“
The attack may have taken place the previous day as there had been some fighting in and around HAVERSKERQUE. Several shot,blown and burnt out lorries lay there. North of St Venant in the neighbourhood of the auxiliary bridge however several shot down enemy tanks and armoured vehicles stood about, which had been shot down during a counterattack to prevent the establishment of the GERMAN bridgehead. It was evident from the conversation that the fighting including the day before had been very heavy and that a tough opponent prevented a further advance. Also losses were heavy.
I could not stay for long as I received the order to get the supply column ready to march. The same day we continued the march as far as I remember towards the North West in order to drive the next day towards the southeast into the district of ST QUENTIN.
On the return journey I stopped at the Auxillary Bridge north of ST VENANT owing to the formations which did not belong to our Regiment coming towards us from the opposite direction.
At the beginning of my interrogation I was told that executions were supposed to have been carried out in this operational area. Since I belonged to the same Regiment uninterruptedly until the summer of 1943 I would have heard something about it. If nevertheless it did occur? Then I consider it out of the question that parts of GERMANIA or any of its personnel took part in it.
I declare hearby on oath that I have no knowledge of such occurrences nor have I heard anything about it in conversation.
I have made the above statement voluntarily and without compulsion.

(sgd) Herbert CHRISTIANSEN
Signed in my presence

(sgd) M.ULLMAN WOI
　
L.D.C
12 July 1946
　
Distribution Copies
AG3 (VW) 1
JAG 2
File 5.



Statement of ERICH ODDEY III GERMANIA


CONFIDENTIALReport No WCIU/LDC/1263(a) U-HV
JAG Ref;- MD/JAG/FS/7/5 (2F)
　
　

VOLUNTARY STATEMENT BY PRISONER of WARLD 1459- OBERSCHARFUHRER -ERICH ODDEY III GERMANIA Regt
Description of my part in Operations at ST VENANT During the campaign in France May 1940I served as a rifleman in the GERMANIA regiment, 9th Coy/III Battalion as Coy runner. The mot Regt GERMANIA came to the airfield of LILLERS as reserve; the III Bn being in the rear. The troops now dismounted, and the vehicles were parked. Our Coy was made ready on the airfield, but I do not know which Coy was on our right and which was on the left. This was at dawn. We were then bombed by our own airoraft. For this reason a change of clothing was carried out, but I no longer know exactly why. It was said that we had been mistaken for the enemy from the air. We then started in the direction of the canal, and all I remember is our reaching factory buildings. I believe it was those on the sketch. We lay down to rest, with some men on guard, but I do not know how many and over what area. I iwas quartered in a building with the 0C Coy. It was my Job to signal white flashes by means of Very pistols and bandoliers to the German aircraft during the march or while resting; besides this I carried the automatic pistol of the Coy Cmdr.
On the following day we dug in over the whole width behind the canal. I believe I could recognize the cana1 by the high banks. The enemy was said to have armour on the other side. Therefore the 14 Coy covered this with its guns. Engineers laid mines and plain wire concertinas. At sunset orders were given to start and we crossed the Canal as far as I could tell from the map shown . It was an asphalt road with a ditch on either side. We were conducted through the mines by Engineer Company Troops. Then 1st Platoon of 9th Coy turned off the road into a lane on the left and took up positions there. I do not know anything about our neighbouring units on the left and right I only know that the Coy battle HQ was in a house on the left side of the road not far from the lane. There the Coy Commander was billeted, also .several runners and myself.
The next morning I bicycled to the No 1 Platoon to take to them the order to attack. I returned on foot because the firing was too intense. The Coy battle HQ was under Artillery or Mortar fire. Later the 2 Platoon was also deployed on the left side of the road and the Coy Cmdr was moving alonug the road. A Dispatch rider from the Battalion passed and told us that Obersturmfuhrer POLLETIN Commander of 10th Coy had been killed. 10th Coy were said to have been on our right; I do not know who was on our left. The attack progressed slowly because the ground on the left where the Platoons were was very marshy and there were lots of ditches running across the ground. At about noon we reached ST VENANT and it was there that I saw 1st Platoon again for the first time since delivering their orders. But there were already German soldiers in the town.
At the other end of the town we rested a while on the road in front of the bridge. I fell asleep and was woken by a loud rumbling the first Artillery fire of my life. It was well-directed Artillery fire, and we escaped from it by rushing over the bridge out of the line of fire. It was the bridge over the LA LYS on the road to HAVERSKERQUE. One could clearly see the small town. I remember the church and the cemetery because we advanced on the left of the road and dug in not far from the town. We had casualties, DECKER, and HARZIG. Before that the anti-tank guns and Infantry Mountain Guns (J.G.Ks.) shelled the town. covering detachments which were further forward. It became dark and orders were given us to withdraw immediately behind the Canal because we had advanced too far.
We then arrived at a place behind the Canal where assault guns and armoured MG. carriers had arrived. Where this place was and what its name was I cannot tell by the map because it was dark and I could not see anything. I believe that the attack started again next morning. The armour was in front and also another Battalion which was probably one of our Regiment. I know that we passed through. ST VENANT once again far enough to see the forest. We also passed by the deserted British Artillery positions. We spent the night beyond HAVERSKERQUE. It was said that the Regiment "Der Fuhrer" was combing, a wood obliquely to us. In HAVERSKERQUE I saw British Prisoners of War for the first time, about 30 men who were taken to the rear guarded by two men, but I do not know where they were taken to. I do not believe that they were shot.
The next day it began to rain and it was only in the afternoon that we proceeded along the road into the wood where we found the assault guns already in position. After a short skirmish in the wood we came through it and could see the goods trucks on the railway. The Battalion Comdr POTTOWTSCH was wounded in this wood and RUMOR took over. As far as I remember we retreated obliquely to the left, and had to wait until the Rest of "Der Fuhrer" reached us. I did not see it myself but I believe we were heavily fired upon by this Regiment by mistake of course as it was night. I have drawn the sketch from the map of HASBROUCK and have reproduced from memory the movements of 9th Coy. I no longer remember the dates.
I have made the above statement voluntarily and without compulsion.
　

(Sgd) Erich ODDEY 　
Signed in my presence
　

: (Sgd) M ULLMAN WOI 　
　
LDC
Distribution Copies
JAG 2
AG3(VW) 1
File 5
　
12 July 1946


Jim

[ivor43]

Morning All.
Continuing with my reviewing i have gone back to another German account of the St Venant action. That of a Diary by one Horst Kallmyer.
He was with 7th Co SSVT and ''Germania'' Rgt. Incidently ''Germania'', later in 1940 was renamed ''Wiking''
What is interesting is, that he found an abandoned Diary, somewhere near the La Bassee Canal, belonging to a Lt R.C.T. Goodwin of 7th Worcestershire Rgt. not only did he keep it he actually used it. His first entry being on 9th May 40.
It makes interesting reading.The translation is terrible but it gives an idea as to what was happening from his point of view. I will link it at the end.
as far as i can understand things went as follows.

On the night of 23/4 his unit halted outside Lilliers, west of the Aire Canal, Their first action of the day appears to be a covering action by the British to allow the bridge to be blown.I am going to assume that this was the bridge that 1st RWF were tasked to defend. They were able to cross the demolished bridge with some difficulty and advance to the outskirts of St Venant where they came under fire again from the withdrawing British. I am not sure which unit this would have been as i thought this gap was caused by the French Pulling out ?.
So this would reinforce the British belief that on 24th the Germans had taken St Venant. with considerable numbers. He also says that his co boss had been able to ferry men to the North Bank of the canal and they were attacking in the direction of Merville. Due to sustained gunfire, from houses and a Church Tower,possibly 2/5 WY in St Floris, they had to withdraw back behind the canal.
He also recounts that the bridge was partially damaged by British 'arty' fire killing 6 men.
They appear to have withdrawn 2/3 km behind the bridge for the night which is where they were when the RWF attack came in.

This is the link to the Diary
http://www.worcestershireregiment.com/wr.php?main=inc/german_h_kallmeyer

i have also linked this map which gives a good idea of the amount of water in the area

https://maps.google.com.mt/maps?q=lillers&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x47dd1b8e59a6ca4b:0x40af13e8163e550,Lillers ,+France&gl=mt&ei=skPJUpKLN-rg7Qb-_oHQAQ&ved=0CJcBELYD

In conclusion.
this reinforces my belief that any Bridging Equipment must have come from the North. the bridges to the South were defended.And as the German's were able to cross the canal by boat unchallenged it would seem that either the N bank was undefended or was in friendly hands.
All this raises some interesting questions. not least being, why are we told that the R.V was Haverskirque when the British Defensive line was St Floris. then the Forest.and what was the plan to extract form St Floris.

ivor

[dcdl12976]

Ivor Haverskerque being the RV fits with Dads incident at the crossroads guarding the footbridge to Haverskerque

[dcdl12976]

What is certain is that Dorffler-Schuband was commander of Junkerschule Bad Tolz by 1942 and died of tuberculosis 27th Sept 1959, I can find no evidence so far of him being accused of an war crimes.

So yet more "hidden papers unavailable for perusal"

[ivor43]

Hi All.
re my last post.
I Wonder if the troops withdrawing in front of Kallmyer were actually 2/5 WY withdrawing to St Floris ?


ivor

[Verrieres]

Rather than confuse the discusion further I will add the statements I find to Post 733 that way the War Crimes Transcripts are kept together and an overall picture of the events leading up to,during and after Anthony Corkhills disappearance can be read in one (large) post whilst the discussion of what units were where can continue and hopefully some conclusions can be drawn. If thats okay with you guys of course?

Best

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Good idea Jim logical to keep it all togeather

[dcdl12976]

Shame he can only date to about the end of may, ivor it seems you were correct in saying the engineer company came fro North of the canal mate, well thought out

[ivor43]

hi.

It seems that ''Germania '' had a First Aid Post somewhere on the Lilliers Rd.

ivor

[dcdl12976]

One of the interrogations tells us there WAS a field hospital in the area as well mate, don't forget a German Regiment was not like ours, there were three in a division so much like a brigade in strength infantry wise however I have see somewhere that Germania was engaged in the Forest of Nieeppe at the time the supposed murders were committed ie on the 27th May so as I have aid before it is my belief the follow up troops were responsible (Feldgendarmerie maybe)

Do we believe the claims they new of no murders, well lets face it they were never going to admit It anyway.

[ivor43]

Dave.

As you say the fighting troops had moved on. But how far behind them were these ''field Police''. I take it they were similar to the Russian ''Political Commissars''. who also were quite capable of solving a problem by murder. Even their own men.
with regard to the fighting troops not knowing of these murders. I think there is a real possibility that they didn't.
These ''police'' were working to the rear committing whatever Murder and Mayhem they chose, but i have some doubts that they would even come into contact with the ''front line'' guys. that might be a bit too hot for them, they might get shot at.


ivor.

[dcdl12976]

I tend to agree Ivor, I will post an outline of the duties and format (and reputation!!!!) of the Feldgendarmerie when I get home from work, not sure where the FG units sat in the scheme of things in France (I have plenty of info from later in the war),

Cheers
Dave

[dcdl12976]

Ok a brief outline, Felgendarmerie, field Police similar to our Military Police known as Chain Dogs from the duty gorget they wore (a name well deserved).
Duties were
post signs and mark routes
Control traffic at key points
Control traffic at the division command post
supervise all movements to the rear
disarm local civilians
Investigate accidents
Establish POW collection points
searching enemy dead for intelligence
Searching for and detaining enemy stragglers and wounded or hiding enemy
collecting abandoned weapons

Just a short list of there many duties folks

Many Feldgendarmes were ex Odnungspoltzei (civy police) however they had much more power than our military police and could (and did) shoot deserters on the spot if they refused to go back to the combat area.
There reputation was such that later in the war they were issued with dual papers showing them to be a normal soldier rather then a Felgendarme (in case of possible capture the were to throw there police paperwork away) a the Russians in particular were not given to treating them very well because of there reputation.

Many German Police battalion were formed in the war and gained a reputation for murder second to only the death camps.

So there you have it folks, a nastier bunch you could not come across.

Dave

[teecee1941]

Some time last year I sent away for Anthony's death certificate. The circumstances surrounding the issue of this document have had me puzzled, if not intrigued, ever since. I have wondered who would have issued it and the fact that it was ever issued at all leads me to think that Anthony was in hospital when he died. If he was lying on the canal bank when he met his end, it is unlikely that someone would come along and write out a certificate.

In hospital, rather than an aid post, there may have been officials of one sort or another, going about their daily business and attempting to create some sort of normality, regardless of what was going on outside. The opportunity to issue a death certificate may have been greater under these circumstances than in any other situation.

If it was issued by a German, at what point was it handed over to the DLI? If not issued by a German, was there a British official present at the time of Anthony's death? I would think that, even in times of war, evidence of death would be a piece of vital information, considering that from the day of death, payment to that soldier would cease. Surely the War Office would not just accept second or third hand information from anyone who told them that one of their men had been killed.

I suppose that finding out any information about the death certificate is just as difficult as the mystery of Anthony's disappearance but it certainly makes me wonder. Whilst I agree that there were more important issues than handing out death certificates at that time, the fact remains that one was in fact issued, so what were the circumstances and who handed it out?

Tony

[Baconwallah]

If I'm not mistaken, the Army would issue a death certificate when the death of a soldier was reported - and that must have happened in 1941. Jim will know more about this, I think.

John

[ivor43]

Good Morning.

Hi Tony.
I am in full agreement with you on this issue. But the problem is, as far as i see it. If we were sure as to where he was on the Canal bank it might indicate which units area of operation he was in. Germania was in St Venant and Totemkopf in Calonne, both with 'aid posts' so which unit dealt with Anthony.
If Germania then it would be reasonable to assume he would have been taken to their post, St Venant area. If Totemkopf then Calonne would be likely.
But whichever, i believe some record would have been kept of his being there. and of the DoD. maybe even the circumstances.
I would imagine that these records would have remained with the Med unit HQ. and have been handed over in 41 to those responsible for the Field Grave Clearances. As to whether the Germans issued a Death Cert, Maybe but i am sure some record Must have been kept.
As to the manner of his death.Well. Dave has given us a quite detailed account of the FP, and a very nice bunch of guy's they sound. i have absolutely No Doubt that they would remove a couple of wounded British Soldiers if they were causing some inconvenience.
Now tying up dates. It is on record that 2 soldiers died on 29/5 in Calonne. is there any record of deaths in St Venant on that date, will look that up.
Jim. in the 'War crimes files' are there any statements from 'Totemkopf' personnel.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

Germania was in St Venant and Totemkopf in Calonne, both with 'aid posts' so which unit dealt with Anthony.

And 3rd Panzer Div was in between, Ivor, with its own medical services.

John

[ivor43]

John.
You have me puzzled here.

the 3rd SS Pz Division was Totemkopf.


ivor