Staying in the EU

[ap1]

Thanks Gwyn,

An excellent precis of why I feel I need to vote out. Over the last few days I've been mulling over the potential pitfalls of Brexit for my daughters and grandchildren, knowing my gut-feeling was to walk away, but with potential to bottle it on referendum day and vote "In". But you're so right, this grouping is not what we joined, although Heath and his cohorts knew it, they never told the voting public, who blithely believed it was just a trading group. In some ways it's a little like Fifa. Probably corrupt and unaccountable. Ultimately it's controlled by Germany and France, a good example is the crazy situation where the EU upsticks every 6 months between Strasbourg and Brussels, clearly a huge waste of money, but to stop it would require a treaty change and France would never agree. A small aspect perhaps, but replicated in other areas of the EU.

I think an "out" vote will cause a massive of re-assesment of the EU and potentially it might actually become something that the British public would support and respect.

My final point..Cameron, a man without a political ethos in his body, he has no real hard and fast views on anything….he's all PR and craves power and he's hugely misjudged this referendum. Why would any leader offer his people the option to vote for war, recession, job losses, and all the other plagues that are apparently coming our way on the 24th June if we vote out. Especially as 6 months previous he claimed he was an "Undecided" but waiting to see how his so-called renegotiation went. Obviously because his initial strategy was flawed, he never thought the vote would happen…like everyone else he thought Labour would get in at the last election. He's been exposed as a political lightweight, who is only good at PM's Questions. He's finished.

[jones20]

Agree with what you say Al saw the BBC programme are we better in then out could not believe it when they said about the upping of sticks between Strasbourg and Brussels costs £154 million a year.Anyway sat down watched Grove on sky last night thought he came across better then the other idiot the night before therefore I will be voting out on the 23rd.They keep mentioning that Europe is a big trading block 500 million people but the commonwealth with whom we have strong links is 2billion strong and if Europe imposes trade tariffs on our goods we just do the same to theirs and as regards the European arrest warrants well it's works both ways if they won't give us someone then when they won't someone off us they can go and whistle.Sorry for getting on my soapbox but I feel a lot better now

[steve wright]

Out for me -simple as. The EU are scared that we will leave and rightly so, they have more to lose

[Keith Jones 989]

Thanks Gwyn,

An excellent precis of why I feel I need to vote out. Over the last few days I've been mulling over the potential pitfalls of Brexit for my daughters and grandchildren, knowing my gut-feeling was to walk away, but with potential to bottle it on referendum day and vote "In". But you're so right, this grouping is not what we joined, although Heath and his cohorts knew it, they never told the voting public, who blithely believed it was just a trading group. In some ways it's a little like Fifa. Probably corrupt and unaccountable. Ultimately it's controlled by Germany and France, a good example is the crazy situation where the EU upsticks every 6 months between Strasbourg and Brussels, clearly a huge waste of money, but to stop it would require a treaty change and France would never agree. A small aspect perhaps, but replicated in other areas of the EU.

I think an "out" vote will cause a massive of re-assesment of the EU and potentially it might actually become something that the British public would support and respect.

My final point..Cameron, a man without a political ethos in his body, he has no real hard and fast views on anything….he's all PR and craves power and he's hugely misjudged this referendum. Why would any leader offer his people the option to vote for war, recession, job losses, and all the other plagues that are apparently coming our way on the 24th June if we vote out. Especially as 6 months previous he claimed he was an "Undecided" but waiting to see how his so-called renegotiation went. Obviously because his initial strategy was flawed, he never thought the vote would happen…like everyone else he thought Labour would get in at the last election. He's been exposed as a political lightweight, who is only good at PM's Questions. He's finished.

And which PMQ was it that Cameron was good at? I thought I watched them all but must have missed one!

[ap1]

In fairness he's easily been better than Millband or Corbyn….Sitting targets perhaps, but you get my point.

[Bricoates]

What puzzles me is that the Scottish National Party want to break away from London, (on the same Island) and run the Country under their own democratically elected Leader, the same can be said of Plaid Cymru, both party's hate to be governed by Westminster citing the fact that neither Country voted for this Tory Government and yet both party's are shouting from the rooftops to stay in the E.U. not only they have not been given a vote to elect the commissioners who has the final say on E.U. decisions I bet they cant name any, they hate a democratically elected government in the UK, and welcome the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, We in Wales do have a handout from the E.U. because we are a poor Nation, nothing to be proud of but you can bet your bottom Dollar that as soon as the poorer Eastern block Countries start knocking at the door there will be no more crumbs to share out, and you can shout from the rooftops or the top of Snowdon, all you will hear is Non, Non, Non, or Nein, Nein, Nein, better to opt out and fight for some crumbs on home soil, this is our last chance, and please Carwyn Jones, you don’t speak for all of us when you say that Wales want to remain in Europe.

[ivor43]

hi folks.
I am keeping well away from this discussion. Mostly. But, there are times when stuff needs possibly Correcting. Bri, you mention 'crumbs' the following link is from''The Welsh Government'' and makes interesting reading. If these figures are 'crumbs' then i would not mind a few myself.
http://gov.wales/funding/eu-funds/?lang=en

ivor

[Bricoates]

Maybe I was a bit harsh on the amount of benefits we in Wales get back from Europe, I believe that the UK puts in 8.5 Billion a year, and according to The Welsh Government’s heading on Ivor’s link we receive £500 million back in European funds annually, so that leaves 8 Billion so I’ll re-phrase my sentence and say that “We in Wales should be grateful for the small piece of cake that we receive back from Europe each year”.

[0752chris]

Frankly doubt there would be a motorway in Wales without EU funding and no dual carriageway to Carmarthen.

There is no certainty that any of the money Wales is allocated by virtue of EU policies would get allocated when "control" returns to England. This goes for scientific research in the universities, for farmers, and for infrastructure.

To those who believe the stories about EU being undemocratic I would say that it is a lot more democratic than Brexiteers admit. All important decisions are taken by the Council of Ministers in which Britain has a veto. Of the decisions put to a vote in the last 15 years, UK voted with the majority over 9 times out of 10. The times UK voted against the majority was to protect banker bonuses and stop money being spent on science and infrastructure (2012). In addition to the Council there is a democratically elected Parliament tasked to improve legislative proposals - hardly the fault of EU that UK sends a lot of parliamentarians to Brussels who never make a contribution, preferring to sound off about pigs at the trough.

Good luck making up your minds. It is simply tragic how politicians and media are spreading so many falsehoods.

[jones20]

Take on board what you say Chris and I have been doing a hell of a lot of reading over the last few days and it's certainly an eye opener The common market as was when we joined was for trade purposes and I have no problem with that but now it's gone beyond that and I have no wish to belong to a United States of Europe.I am afraid that those in charge of the EU don't like us one of the articles I read was from a MEP not Uk who stated that any thing put forward by the UK will go nowhere Then I see today that two ex PMs are warning against leaving and that's rich from a bloke that took us into a war with a pack of lies and the other one was so weak and gutless