Frank Williams WW2 Wrexham TA, RWF mix of units, Killyleagh, Possible Commando time

[Anniek]

Thanks John. Wonder why he was only fit for home service then - especially given he hadn't gone anywhere anyway apparently. mind he had 4 unexplained trips to hospital so if they genuinely were illness related that would explain it but interesting that my Grandma never mentioned him having been in hospital (and they were married by then) or ever being ill.

[Drew5233]

Scrub my last - I have found the 9 Independent Coy war diary for May and June in another series (WO 168 Norway). It's only two pages, not much detail, I'm sacking it for the night now so I'll post the pages tomorrow.

Cheers
Andy

9 Ind Coy War Diary for May and June - Not much really. I suspect looking for post action reports at Kew may hold more info.

[Anniek]

[QUOTE=Drew5233;78396]9 Ind Coy War Diary for May and June - Not much really. I suspect looking for post action reports at Kew may hold more info.

/QUOTE]

Thank you for finding this

[ivor43]

Hi all.
I am beginning to wonder if we are actually looking at some 'disinformation'. It is recorded that 8th Btn RWF was designated as a Home Defense unit, it would seem to me a good place to 'hide' men who would be immediately available for Special Duties, and would be a way of ''keeping them on strength'' with No Problem with them being sent for Special Training.
I wonder if the 'Hospital' entries were actually Debriefs, Medicals and some R&R after raids.


ivor

[ap1]

Hi all.
I am beginning to wonder if we are actually looking at some 'disinformation'. It is recorded that 8th Btn RWF was designated as a Home Defense unit,
ivor

The 8th, 9th and 10th Bn's were second line units, responsible for supplying the frontline units with replacements. At the onset of war, they were also required to supply a number of "volunteers" to form 9 Ind Company….Likewise the 4th, 6th and 7th Bn supplied the men for 2 Ind Company. It's important to remember, a large number of the frontline infantry units, which would have the best trained men were already in France with the BEF, so the supply of men had to come from units elsewhere.

I don't think the secrecy was available at that stage. These units were very much at the "Boys Own" stage of development. Very little funding, just enthusiastic officers, throwing up ideas, and putting together small missions, on a shoestring budget….Such as Op Collar…..Later that may have changed, as they began to produce results. Finally attached is a portion of the service record of Hugh Maines. A Royal Welchman from the 9th RWF, who served with Ted Jones MM, in 11 Ind Company in 1940 and took part in Op Collar. The units are clearly shown.

Z400.jpg

[Anniek]

Hi all.
I am beginning to wonder if we are actually looking at some 'disinformation'. It is recorded that 8th Btn RWF was designated as a Home Defense unit, it would seem to me a good place to 'hide' men who would be immediately available for Special Duties, and would be a way of ''keeping them on strength'' with No Problem with them being sent for Special Training.
I wonder if the 'Hospital' entries were actually Debriefs, Medicals and some R&R after raids.


ivor

this is what I have been starting to wonder. Interestingly he didn't even have leave recorded for his honeymoon which he definitely went on - only 72hrs but I am sure it would be recorded because it is on my Grandma's records (they came yesterday and whilst I haven't seen them my mum says if he was where he officially was then she can't see how they managed to meet where they always said they did and how they managed to see each other)

Still puzzled how/why he was compulsory transfer to being a driver at the end of 1943, why was he so unfit suddenly having been a very good boxer, worked down the mines before the war, being a labourer etc, hadn't been wounded because he hadn't been anywhere to be wounded, was never ill after the war and didn't have any injuries. none of it makes sense.

[Anniek]

The 8th, 9th and 10th Bn's were second line units, responsible for supplying the frontline units with replacements. At the onset of war, they were also required to supply a number of "volunteers" to form 9 Ind Company….Likewise the 4th, 6th and 7th Bn supplied the men for 2 Ind Company. It's important to remember, a large number of the frontline infantry units, which would have the best trained men were already in France with the BEF, so the supply of men had to come from units elsewhere.

I don't think the secrecy was available at that stage. These units were very much at the "Boys Own" stage of development. Very little funding, just enthusiastic officers, throwing up ideas, and putting together small missions, on a shoestring budget….Such as Op Collar…..Later that may have changed, as they began to produce results. Finally attached is a portion of the service record of Hugh Maines. A Royal Welchman from the 9th RWF, who served with Ted Jones MM, in 11 Ind Company in 1940 and took part in Op Collar. The units are clearly shown.

Z400.jpg

but this is the thing though isn't it -if any of what he said was true then it should be on his record like this where it shows what companies they were in. as it doesn't show any of this the only thing we can assume then is that he never did commando training in Scotland, never went to Norway and saw his friends killed, never saw any active service and was obviously very sickly randomly in the middle of the war for the only time in his life. unless there is a page of information missing or information recorded against another Frank Williams which I shouldn't think is possible because I would presume they used their numbers not names alone or he was doing something odd that for some reason they didn't record.

[ap1]

but this is the thing though isn't it -if any of what he said was true then it should be on his record like this where it shows what companies they were in. as it doesn't show any of this the only thing we can assume then is that he never did commando training in Scotland.

I still think its possible, a lot would depend on the quality of administration at a particular unit. Ted Jones MM, only spent a few months with the Ind Company, before moving to 2RWF….Some of the men probably only did weeks! Hugh above, stayed with the Commando fraternity. We do know that the volunteers for the Ind Company's trained in Scotland. We need an example of another 8th Bn man's records, who went to an Ind company to make a final assertion.

[dcdl12976]

Hi all.
I am beginning to wonder if we are actually looking at some 'disinformation'. It is recorded that 8th Btn RWF was designated as a Home Defense unit, it would seem to me a good place to 'hide' men who would be immediately available for Special Duties, and would be a way of ''keeping them on strength'' with No Problem with them being sent for Special Training.
I wonder if the 'Hospital' entries were actually Debriefs, Medicals and some R&R after raids.

I tend to agree Ivor my dad was in hospital when he was told he was going to the Parachute regiment, a week or so after he came out he and a couple of others were told they were not going to the Para regiment but would be going to an undisclosed location for training for "special Ops" this proved to be RAF Cardington (though the official records say no parachute training was undertaken there), he is adamant he did the training there and remembers the two large hangers that used to hold the airships in WW1. Also although he was still shown on Royal Berks strength he was not with them for the rest of the war being on special ops making several jumps and or landings in occupied Northern France. None of this is in his record so proving anything is very hard, I only have his word for it as does Anniek only have the word of the person involved.

Cheers

Dave


ivor

[Anniek]

Dave - did your Dad get any random SPP at any point? I remember it being suggested pages ago that this could have been for something like parachute training.