Regimental Colours

[jungle1810]

Hello Mike Donnelly,
Your post mentions the 23rd 24th and the 41st. Query which 24th of foot did you mean.??? Y Cymro lists 16 V.C's won by the 24th we all know this was the Warwickshire Regiment who won these medals in the Andaman islands, Isandlwana, Rorkes Drift, Ashantee, and Zululand. All these are listed as the 24th Regiment, but to me it is like a subliminal advert. Why not list them as the WARWICKSHIFRE REGIMENT after all it was the Warwickshire Regiment that won all these V,.C's. Another point is the fact that at best only two Welsh men won the V.C. in the South African wars. these were Fielding aka Williams and Jones, Both of these men were born in Monmouth and at the time of the Defence of Rorkes Drift took place Monmouth was in ENGLAND. So maybe they were ENGLISH what do you reckon.I think maybe the correct place to hold a RORKES DRIFT dinner would be STRATFORD ON AVON. I welcome your prognostications on my e mail.
Regards RBD aka "DON"

[BennytheBall]

I would just like to make my last comment on the this subject of the new regiment's colours, as stated by Barry 69 everyone can have their opinion on the matter and I just "aired" my personal opinion and this was not intended to cause any dispondency or to upset any Forum Member, Comrades or any member of the new regiment, if I have, I apologise. Barry 69 and Mike Donnelly are correct in stating that people where missing the point on the new regiments colours, and I for one totally agree, I was giving my personal opinion only on the matter and I believe that this forum allows us members' to do that.

In not condradicting my personal opinion, our branch members' will still have an interest and give their support to the new regiment in any shape or form as does the 1st Bn with our RWFCA, and we have to thank them for that.

I work with many Royal Welsh soldiers on a day to day basis and hear their views and opinions (especially from the older ones who had served with the RWF) and their comments are the same as mine but they are told to get on with it, which they do in a very professional way and I for one praise them for that.

Yours
BennytheBall

[Rog Ball 01]

I have my opinions about the new Regiment which I will keep to myself, but as the Banner says at the top, we are Royal Welch, and as it has been said by others we will remain so with the L of O, the RWF Comrades Association and of course this forum. There is nothing we can do about the GREEN or anything else about what is going on with the Regiment, but we can be positive and proactive and support the 1st Bn the Royal Welsh (Royal Welch Fusiliers) and also support the RWF CA and the Forum.

[keithwill38]

I honestly think we should put the threads us and them to bed now,there are now 2 regiments ROYAL WELSH,so let them get on with it,we had a wonderful regiment so lets just remember what was a great regiment,the new Batallions now have to go forward and create there own identities,the old ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS will never be forgotten,to much great history and a great bunch of guys who served in it.
and thats me jumping off the bandwagon.........

[Rog Ball 01]

I agree Keith, and as I said above, lets concentrate on who we are, Royal Welchmen and not on the battle between the two rgts/bns.

[mikedonnelly]

Hello Jungle1810,
I dont belive we have meet however i can see you are a well read and proud Royal Welchman as am I, Having served in the 23rd for 23 years and my last post being as the RSM of The 3rd Battalion and now just entering my 33rd year of service currently as the RQMS of The 3rd Bn The Royal Welsh i have allways kept in mind the words: People who live in Glass Houses should not throw stones:

As we all know the 23rd of foot "Herberts Regiment" was raised at Ludlow (England) in March 1689 and it was not untill 1702 that we were given the title "The Welsh Regiment of Fuziliers" and in recognition of its distinguished service during Marlborough's campaigns Queen Anne dubbed it "Our Royal Regiment of Welsh Fuziliers. (Nothing stays the same)

As to the VC's

Maj Gen Luke O'Connor VC Born Ireland 1849.
Maj Gen Edward Bell VC Born Essex 1824.
Cpl Joseph Davies VC Born Staffordshire 1916.
Pte Albert Hill VC Born Manchester 1895.

And i could go on and on. So where do you suggest we celebrate the Battle of ALMA.

As i have said in previous posts those of us who were lucky enough to have served in the 23rd should cherish those memories and support those who go after us after all it is they who will put new Battle Honours on Their Colours, ours will be hanging in St Giles Church for all to see.

[Lofty-25]

As everyone can see from the posts that have been submitted, there are passions for each Regiment, and rightly so, but what has been done to forge the Regiments together has been done

I myself served 15 years with the 1 RWF and although there were some bad times, as i look back i can see all the good times, with all the great characters that made it so good

We all know are Regimental historys, and the who won what, where and when but one thing is now for certain - we are all "Royal Welsh men" and like the new Battalions, move forward as one

[neil(george)wilson]

1756. A second battalion of the 23rd, raised in Leicester recruited in County Durham. Later to be the 68th of foot and later still,
The Durham Light Infantry. Colours very green..!

[jungle1810]

Hello Mike,

You missed my point. My e mail referred to the VCs won by the 24th (Warwickshire Regiment), not the RWF. The RWF are laying claim to the VCs they won, not another Regiment's VCs - as the list in Y Cymro is showing.

Many myths are doing the rounds in South Wales. Namely the Warwicks won the most VCs in A SINGLE BATTLE - simply not true!

In fact there were a record 24 VCs won at the Relief of Lucknow in a 24 hour period in 1857. 20 VCs were won at the Redan on the 18th June 1855; there were 19 awarded at the Battle of Inkerman in 1854; 17 VCs were awarded for the Sikander Dag in 1855; 12 VCs were awarded for the Great Redan; 11 VCs were awarded for the Drift - SEVEN of which went to "B" Coy the 2nd Warwicks.

These awards were spread out over 14 MONTHS, so this makes the defence of the Drift SIXTH in line for the most VCs won in a single action.

Another myth is stated to be that the Warwicks won 11 VCs - not true! They won 7; the others were won by the Commisariat (RASC as we knew it) The medical establishment (RAMC as we knew it) and the Natal Native Contingent and the Royal Engineers etc.

The new regimental formation is listed as winning 43 VCs, yet only one Regiment is listed as having at least 10 VCs, or more won, in a list run by the VC web site naming Regimental Museums who fall into the above category and that is the RWF. Neither the South Wales Borderers or The Welsh regiment are listed!

I take your point about my prediliction for reading. I am a great lover of the truth and my peers who I look up to in this field include Thomas Paine, John Hancock, Benjamin Franklin and last, but not least, Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

I freely admit and thank all who read my e-mails and I support them and their right to express their point of view with out let or hinderance and will fight to preserve that right to the "NTH" degree whether they agree with my views or not. After all this, this is what we all fought to preserve, whether we were National Service men or career soldiers. I have taken the trouble to try and correct a lot of errors that go the rounds.

Another subject that is a complete anathema to me is the lack of veracity of the BBC and local editors when giving un qualified accounts of the defence of the Drift. I was also under the distinct impression that history could not be changed but we have all witnessed two glaring events that have proved many pundits, myself included, as being wrong. I most sincerley hope that the two German Nationals who won the VC do not turn up, for what ever reason, in our new list of VC winners.

In conclusion, if I can be of help to any one on the forum please sing out and I will do my best, but that is not an absolute guarantee of being right all the time (Tongue in cheek).

Mike are you going to the LOF in April? If you are, we can meet and have a drink. Otherwise, there is a motorway named the M4 and it will take you to CF31 4 RE.

I now rest my case m'Lud. RIP

Regards "DON" aka RBD

[Rog Ball 01]

Doln

It is time to move on. The original thread was about the Regimental Colours of the Regiment and not about the VCs won by the SWB/RRW and the Drift.

There are a minority of the forum that still dont agree with the merger, and I will not deny, that I am one, but as I have said and others have also said also, there is nothing that can be done, so it is time to move on.

We are all Royal Welchmen (or Royal Welshmen), which ever you prefer, and we should be looking to the future and not looking backwards.