Pioneer Sgt

[beefy22]

Can anyone help me out: Why do pioneer sgt`s have beards, and in particalaur the history behind The Royal Welch Fusiliers pnr sgt.

Thanks Beefy

[jungle1810]

Hello Beefy,
The history and origins of the RWF pioneer Sjt is probably a long task to sort out. Re the beard, I believe two reasons were given for the pioneer Sjt having a beard.

1 A beard protects the face of the pioneer Sjt whenclearing routes through trees and brambles.

2 The other reason is to protect his face from infection when mixing or using explosives.

The pioneers were used mainly for clearing roads and paths for the battalion to make progress. All pioneers were tradesmen.


Credible or not what do you think.

Regards Don aka RBD

[bennyball2]

hi both, just found this:

Before 1939, British army troops were allowed, with permission from their commander, to grow a beard. Since then, the only soldier in the battalion allowed a beard was the combat engineer sergeant and colour sergeants who was allowed to keep a beard by tradition. In many British Commonwealth armies it is traditional that the Pioneer Sergeants attached to the infantry has a beard. This goes back to the days when they used to stick the slow burning fuze into their beards for safekeeping when assembling explosive charges. Today these men are responsible more for carpentry and military engineering than lighting fuses but the beards remain as a remnant of that past. Oddly enough these men also are usually issued chromed pioneer tools (axes, shovels, etc) and a work apron that they carry with them on parades. The navies of these countries also allow full sets of beards although currently this is under review

[john1]

Your question got me thinking so I did some searching about and this is one of the answers I found, I dont know if its the main reason but it sounds good to me:

Before 1939, British army troops were allowed, with permission from their commander, to grow a beard. Since then, the only soldier in the battalion allowed a beard was the combat engineer sergeant and colour sergeants who was allowed to keep a beard by tradition. In many British Commonwealth armies it is traditional that the Pioneer Sergeants attached to the infantry has a beard. This goes back to the days when they used to stick the slow burning fuze into their beards for safekeeping when assembling explosive charges. Today these men are responsible more for carpentry and military engineering than lighting fuses but the beards remain as a remnant of that past

[richie264]

I've always thought our pioneers were exellent both in their engineering skills & no parade was complete with out them at the head behind Billy.
Was it the QLR in Berlin who decided they liked what they saw & decided they wanted the same & even had the neck to ask could they borrow our aprons & tools ???

I have seen no other British Regiment with this tradition, however the Forgien Legion do have pioneers leading them.

[Scouse75]

Richie,

If I remember correctly, the QLR's had plenty of tools in their own Battalion!!!

[BennytheBall]

An Extract from the Pipkin "The Royal Welch Fusiliers"

The Ceremonial Pioneers

Before the days of good roads and bridges and level camp sites, it was necessary to have men who were able to prepare the way for the Regiment on the march and to provide services for its camps. These were the Pioneers, all tradesmen and picked soldiers, and their SERGEANT WAS AN OUTSTANDING MAN OF GREAT EXPERIENCE AND AS SUCH WORE A BEARD.

To protect their uniforms they wore leather aprons and gloves. From their position in the van on active service the Pioneers have long held the privilege of marching behind the Regimental Goat at the head of the Regiment on Ceremonial Parades. They wear white buckskin aprons and guanlets and carry their traditional tools.

In 1886 an inspecting General quistioned their right to these items of dress and an appeal was to the War Office which resulted in a letter in which the Commander-in-Chief, His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge, was pleased to consent to the continuance of the custom.

THE AUTHORITY FOR THIS RIGHT IS SHARED WITH NO OTHER REGIMENT.

Beefy
Having spoken to the Assualt/Ceremonial Pioneer C/Sgt PSI (Bambi) here in the TAC Queensferry, he informs me that there are no longer any Assualt/Ceremonial Pioneers in the Ist Bn and its upto the CO's discretion whether to have them? However, there is a vast of qualified Assualt/Ceremonial Pioneers still in the 1st Bn and it is hoped that they will re-form when back in Chester.

On a lighter note the 3rd Bn still has retained an Assualt/Ceremonial Pioneer Platoon and are very professional in what they do.

If that is the case, the tradition of the Pioneer Sergeant's beard is long gone, yet another Regimental Custom thrown under the carpet ( Sir General Jackson has suceeded in "trashing" the Regimental System, its Customs and Traditions). However, all is not lost we still have the 3rd Bn to call upon.

[Vic Hughes 53]

Hi Benny,

and what a great set of boys they are in APNR (ICE) Pl 3 R WELSH. Pass on my regards to them all. Had a great 18 months with them and the Shotton and Deeside branch of the RWF comrades. Camp last year will always stick in my head for the laughs and hard work that was put in by all to make it work down in Weymouth. I dont know if Joe and Meds have recovered yet.

As for the 1st BN, the CO and Sen Maj are keen that we have APNRS in some shape and form and we do still train soldiers in these skills, in fact one of the boys has just started his APNR Pl Sgt cse in the Royal Engineers depot.

As for a reason why the BN has not got an established platoon at present is more to do with army policies and unit establishments figures than anything else. It is certainly not driven by the BN, as they have recognised some of the skills that bring the APNR to the fore, especially on operations like Afghansistan , demolitions and field fortifications to name but two skills.

All the best Benny hope you, Carol and the boys are well , say hello to all in A Coy 3 R WELSH

Vic

[Barry69]

What a loss bring them back soon, I was fortunate that during my time in the army we had them and what a fantastic professional bunch of guys, thier was not much they could not achive and thier boss ,an insperation and well respected guy.

I personaly always had time and the gratest respect for all these guys, especialy in Gorazde where they earned more than thier crust, great team led by a real top man!

[BennytheBall]

22
Further to your Pnr Sgt beard query, I've just been told that the Pnr Sgt wore a thick beard to stop the metal shavings from which he was responsible for sharpening damaging his face also as a few other members' have stated to stop the cordite going onto his face from the explosives. I thank You for a very good "Post" it has certainly become a talking point today.

Best Regards
BennytheBall 1