Frank Williams WW2 Wrexham TA, RWF mix of units, Killyleagh, Possible Commando time

[Anniek]

its almost impossible to unravel. Perhaps the war diary for the 8th Bn, may provide a clue, especially if it mentions volunteers for Norway.

During his period with 31 RWF at Litchfield, I do wonder if he was involved in Coastal Defence, in North Wales.

Coastal defence would make an awful lot of sense, it could also explain why he turned up in different coastal hospitals, plus a knowledge of the area of North Wales would presumably have been helpful as would any training he had done in the mountains (presumably in Ireland seeing as we know he was there) and Benbecula if what he said was right.

[ivor43]

Anniek.
Believe me i am finding this fascinating.
However. You say when he joined the TA on 6/6/39 he was destined for the 4th RWF. Yet when he joined in Sept he went to the 8th something, he did not get to the 4th until 22/9/40, a Year later.interesting. I do not know if the RWF were ever in Benbecula or if they were involved in Mountain training in 39/40. Any ideas anyone.

But this raises an interesting point. he does not seem to have been on Basic Training. unless he did it between 6/6/39 and 2/9/39. as TA ????.



ivor

[Anniek]

nope there is no training listed ANYWHERE. that is why I didn't copy the TA stuff because it doesn't say anything really.

standard who he is, medical stuff etc on pages 1 and 2 then on the 3rd page it says literally

6/6/39 RWF Attested, rank Fus from 6/6/39
4th posted 6/6/39 and stamped 4th Bn RWF
nothing else on that whole sheet

4th page is the military history sheet

just says place - home, from 6/6/39

the instruction/wounded/special instances/medals/injuries and so on all blank and then just his father filled in as next of kin.

absolutely nothing else whatsoever.

so no it looks like he did no training of any sort at any time for anything.

I am starting to wonder if he actually did anything at all.

my other grandad has courses, qualifications, training etc all neatly logged on his (he was also TA from 1939 but was highly skilled in setting charges in mines so was rapidly taken off to train people in mine disposal) but Frank seems to have done nothing at all.

I am pleased you are finding it fascinating

[ivor43]

hi
odd as on the page you copied it says Embodied 2/9/39 8th.
further down Posted 4th 22/9/40.

ahhh good. another puzzle.


ivor

[Anniek]

oh I hadn't noticed that. well you couldn't expect anything to match up could you? nothing else on his records seems to! All so odd. He must have done SOME training surely. It is quite sad in a way, he was a lovely man and very intelligent from all accounts, went on to employ hundreds of people, fitted in with everyone whatever their background, experienced miner before the war and so on (is listed as being a steel erector on his forms) so he would presumably have been a useful soldier and he signed up early as well rather than wait until he was forced.

mind I have learned something else, his religion is listed as a Culmonistic Methodist! I presume they mean a Calvinistic Methodist although I had never heard Calvinistic before so had to look that up.

[ivor43]

hi guy's

another thing which seems odd is. within 3 months he was a Lance Corporal and 4 months later is acting Corporal. was this normal. as it seems a bit quick to me. he was only 20.


ivor

[Anniek]

well I wondered if that was something to do with Norway.

[Anniek]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/einnaf/12075122585/
on this page which seems to be the most 'confused' of the pages (mind I haven't really read the driver ones yet but they look straight forward) it says about him being Corporal right at the top, date given May 27th 1940. It presumably COULD be possible that the change to Acting Corporal occurred in Norway if the dates suggested earlier of 25-29th May 1940 might apply - he did say they were very heavily bombed and not on land for that long, Bodo would seem the one likely for bombing although he said he went to Narvik at some point and I can't see why he would even know much about Narvik if he hadn't been somewhere vaguely near for some reason. I notice that entries 2 and 3 on this sheet are in the wrong order. August before June so obviously written up some time after the event. Can anyone make out what the location was on the 3rd entry here it says posted to the 50th HB? I can't work it out. It looks like it starts with a B..lub..gh? Doesn't even hint at anywhere I have heard of.

And my mum says thank you very much for all your efforts and thoughts. She has been quite sad looking through all his records and them not making much sense so she really appreciates people spending time investigating.

I did ask her again about the bizarre story from bumping into this chap in a stately home last year. She is going to look up where it was they had been on a day trip but the chap was the owner of the House and his father had been a medic in the RWF and then went to Norway with 1 Commando. The man who became his (the house owner's) uncle was sent to India with one of the units where it was supposed to be the other half who went but they were all ill with pneumonia or some other such serious illness so his half went instead. She came back from the day trip quite unsettled because she said it all matched too closely what her dad had said about the India thing but she didn't think to ask the man if he knew any more. If she tells me where they were I will try to contact him to ask.

[ivor43]

anniek.

the word is Denbigh. the 50th was formed there from the 7th HB.then moved to Lancaster.


ivor

[Anniek]

gosh some of these people had awful handwriting! I did wonder about Denbigh after it was mentioned earlier but I just couldn't make the scrawl fit the letters. Mind to be fair Cpl next to it doesn't actually look like Cpl either.

I like the person a few lines later who wrote in capitals.

thanks