Frank Williams WW2 Wrexham TA, RWF mix of units, Killyleagh, Possible Commando time

[Anniek]

thank you - that is all very interesting. Yes I am not sure where this 31st Battalion comes from. It doesn't seem to be showing up on anything. It looked like they wrote 30th battalion but then went over with a thicker pen to make 31 so they obviously initially made a mistake writing or changed their mind but it is quite clearly recorded as 31st.

It is reassuring it looks likely he was a commando then. I was starting to wonder if he had been making that up although why he would I don't know.

I really appreciate your help. Even if we find out no more I am much further on with information and possible ideas than I was a few days ago. Thank you.

[ivor43]

Anniek.

just found this'

http://www.llgc.org.uk/ymgyrchu/Heddwch/WW2/HEAR07.jpg


ivor

[Anniek]

thank you - will have to get a magnifying glass out I think. I have been to Criccieth.

[Anniek]

I have just realised I think I have been a bit dim, I assumed (not having looked at service records before) that it was saying he was in Lichfield all that time because it just said field in that column underneath Lichfield but it has just dawned on me that that might mean he was 'in the field' so therefore could have been in any number of places in Wales hence the Welsh hospitals.

out of curiosity if the RWF were on the whole all Welsh people did they just speak Welsh? I know my Grandfather didn't learn English until he was an adult and his parents never spoke English.

[ivor43]

hi.
Firstly i do not think you are being at all dim, this whole thing is quite complex as there are huge gaps in his record for which there is no written explanation.
I have wondered about it myself but to me it seems to be too vague, in effect they are saying well he is still on the strength but we do not really have a clue where he is, or what he is doing. which, if he was Commando would be perfectly true. it would only be when he went into hospital that his unit would be informed. This would appear to be more evidence that he was Commando.
This Tatton Park, possibility is interesting as it was used for Parachute training which as Dave said earlier might account for him being awarded SPP.
What i now wonder is, if he was 1 Commando,for instance, would they have kept records themselves and if so where would they be as it is obvious they were not sent to his unit when he left ?.

Your second point. i think there were a lot of Non Welsh speakers within RWF, but i think others will have more info on this.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

Perhaps I should point out that the records as supplied may well be incomplete. We have already discussed this in the St Venant thread, where there was mention of missing medical records (if I remember correctly).

John

[dcdl12976]

Ivor, Tatton Park was also used by the SOE/SIS which raises other posibilities mate and as know from my dad men were often seconded to them for various reasons yet they remained within there parent regiment.
not saying this is the answer just a possibility.

[ivor43]

Morning
I am quoting an extract from a document re 1 Commando. this is from the nominal Roll.

''Formed 13th June 1940 with personnel from No's 6 & 8 Independent Companies as No 11 Independent Company. Redesignated No1 Commando 14th June 1940 and disbanded on 27th July 1940 and became part of No1 Special Service Battalion.


Reformed as No1 Commando 5th March 1941 in Dartmouth.


Raids included 27/28 August 1941 on the French coast.


2-7 April 1942 Bayonne ….Operation Myrmidon (Aborted)
A troop from No 1 took part in the raid on St Nazaire where Sgt Tom Durrant was awarded the Victoria Cross.


1942 No1 Commando was then withdrawn from raiding to prepare for the North African operations and landings ‘Operation Torch’. November 1942, during Operation torch, No 1 Commando were the first unit in history to wear the green beret in battle.


Several operations were undertaken by the Commando in North Africa before fighting as part of the line and then returning to the UK for refitting and re-equipping.
Nov 1943 the unit sailed for the Far East and jungle training in India.''

This now makes some degree of sense of his record.
If he took part in the St Nazaire raid was he injured and on his return in CRS Vaynol 18 to 20 /4 42 as a result.
The same can apply for Operation Torch Nov 1942. his record is blank from his marriage entry 5/10/42 till he is granted SPP on 3/3/43.
similar gap appears from 7/8/42 until he is married on 26/9/42. He does not appear to have asked for leave to do this so that i would think that he was stationed in the area, possibly Tatton Park. Para training ?
If he was involved with Operation Torch he would have left the UK probably not long after his Marriage and if he was again injured, more seriously this time, i can quite well believe he may not have returned to UK till April when he was Hospitalised in Abergele. If this injury was the reason for his 2 later visits to CRS Portmadoc then it might raise questions regarding his fitness.
This would be more critical as they were going to India for Jungle Training.Not the easiest job. and it might account for his refusing Inoculations.
This could well have been the reason for him leaving the unit and his posting to the ''Y''List.


ivor

[ivor43]

hi all.

I Have linked this as it makes interesting reading.

http://www.commandoveterans.org/site/the-army-commandos

Oh. and Pte F Williams is listed on the 1 Commando Role of Honour.
there is a link within the document.

Total Respect is given.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

Er, the Pte F. Williams mentioned in the Roll of Honour was killed in the war.

John