saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

[ivor43]

hi.

It seems that ''Germania '' had a First Aid Post somewhere on the Lilliers Rd.

ivor

[dcdl12976]

One of the interrogations tells us there WAS a field hospital in the area as well mate, don't forget a German Regiment was not like ours, there were three in a division so much like a brigade in strength infantry wise however I have see somewhere that Germania was engaged in the Forest of Nieeppe at the time the supposed murders were committed ie on the 27th May so as I have aid before it is my belief the follow up troops were responsible (Feldgendarmerie maybe)

Do we believe the claims they new of no murders, well lets face it they were never going to admit It anyway.

[ivor43]

Dave.

As you say the fighting troops had moved on. But how far behind them were these ''field Police''. I take it they were similar to the Russian ''Political Commissars''. who also were quite capable of solving a problem by murder. Even their own men.
with regard to the fighting troops not knowing of these murders. I think there is a real possibility that they didn't.
These ''police'' were working to the rear committing whatever Murder and Mayhem they chose, but i have some doubts that they would even come into contact with the ''front line'' guys. that might be a bit too hot for them, they might get shot at.


ivor.

[dcdl12976]

I tend to agree Ivor, I will post an outline of the duties and format (and reputation!!!!) of the Feldgendarmerie when I get home from work, not sure where the FG units sat in the scheme of things in France (I have plenty of info from later in the war),

Cheers
Dave

[dcdl12976]

Ok a brief outline, Felgendarmerie, field Police similar to our Military Police known as Chain Dogs from the duty gorget they wore (a name well deserved).
Duties were
post signs and mark routes
Control traffic at key points
Control traffic at the division command post
supervise all movements to the rear
disarm local civilians
Investigate accidents
Establish POW collection points
searching enemy dead for intelligence
Searching for and detaining enemy stragglers and wounded or hiding enemy
collecting abandoned weapons

Just a short list of there many duties folks

Many Feldgendarmes were ex Odnungspoltzei (civy police) however they had much more power than our military police and could (and did) shoot deserters on the spot if they refused to go back to the combat area.
There reputation was such that later in the war they were issued with dual papers showing them to be a normal soldier rather then a Felgendarme (in case of possible capture the were to throw there police paperwork away) a the Russians in particular were not given to treating them very well because of there reputation.

Many German Police battalion were formed in the war and gained a reputation for murder second to only the death camps.

So there you have it folks, a nastier bunch you could not come across.

Dave

[teecee1941]

Some time last year I sent away for Anthony's death certificate. The circumstances surrounding the issue of this document have had me puzzled, if not intrigued, ever since. I have wondered who would have issued it and the fact that it was ever issued at all leads me to think that Anthony was in hospital when he died. If he was lying on the canal bank when he met his end, it is unlikely that someone would come along and write out a certificate.

In hospital, rather than an aid post, there may have been officials of one sort or another, going about their daily business and attempting to create some sort of normality, regardless of what was going on outside. The opportunity to issue a death certificate may have been greater under these circumstances than in any other situation.

If it was issued by a German, at what point was it handed over to the DLI? If not issued by a German, was there a British official present at the time of Anthony's death? I would think that, even in times of war, evidence of death would be a piece of vital information, considering that from the day of death, payment to that soldier would cease. Surely the War Office would not just accept second or third hand information from anyone who told them that one of their men had been killed.

I suppose that finding out any information about the death certificate is just as difficult as the mystery of Anthony's disappearance but it certainly makes me wonder. Whilst I agree that there were more important issues than handing out death certificates at that time, the fact remains that one was in fact issued, so what were the circumstances and who handed it out?

Tony

[Baconwallah]

If I'm not mistaken, the Army would issue a death certificate when the death of a soldier was reported - and that must have happened in 1941. Jim will know more about this, I think.

John

[ivor43]

Good Morning.

Hi Tony.
I am in full agreement with you on this issue. But the problem is, as far as i see it. If we were sure as to where he was on the Canal bank it might indicate which units area of operation he was in. Germania was in St Venant and Totemkopf in Calonne, both with 'aid posts' so which unit dealt with Anthony.
If Germania then it would be reasonable to assume he would have been taken to their post, St Venant area. If Totemkopf then Calonne would be likely.
But whichever, i believe some record would have been kept of his being there. and of the DoD. maybe even the circumstances.
I would imagine that these records would have remained with the Med unit HQ. and have been handed over in 41 to those responsible for the Field Grave Clearances. As to whether the Germans issued a Death Cert, Maybe but i am sure some record Must have been kept.
As to the manner of his death.Well. Dave has given us a quite detailed account of the FP, and a very nice bunch of guy's they sound. i have absolutely No Doubt that they would remove a couple of wounded British Soldiers if they were causing some inconvenience.
Now tying up dates. It is on record that 2 soldiers died on 29/5 in Calonne. is there any record of deaths in St Venant on that date, will look that up.
Jim. in the 'War crimes files' are there any statements from 'Totemkopf' personnel.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

Germania was in St Venant and Totemkopf in Calonne, both with 'aid posts' so which unit dealt with Anthony.

And 3rd Panzer Div was in between, Ivor, with its own medical services.

John

[ivor43]

John.
You have me puzzled here.

the 3rd SS Pz Division was Totemkopf.


ivor