saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

[Verrieres]

Not sure these Hospital Units would have been used initially, the DLI I have researched with more serious wounds were sent on the 27th May 1940 to St Pol and those with minor wounds or wounds so serious that they could not be moved were treated at the Sanatorium Augustus??(or similar/illegible document) in St Venant itself using captured medical staff and orderlies . Prior to the German advance Ferme Boulet was as originally stated an aid post.

[Verrieres]

Latest update from Tony,

No reply was received from the MP so Tony contacted them again he confirmed that no reply had been forthcoming from the MoD hence no update for Tony. The MP agreed to re-contact the MoD and see what was causing the delay. Again Tony received no update .Tony re-contacted the MP again and enquired once again if there was any reply, he in turn contacted the MoD again and this time received the following reply

Thank you for your email. We have been trying to get you a response, but the MoD have answered neither the original letter, nor a subsequent letter asking for a reply, hence our lack of contact with yourself.

Upon contacting their correspondence office to enquire into this, they stated that due to a high levels of incoming correspondence they cannot guarantee a response on all issues.

Do they not deem the disappearance of a British soldier in the course of his duty, fighting for the freedom of this country sufficiently important to warrant a reply?

Jim

[Baconwallah]

Do they not deem the disappearance of a British soldier in the course of his duty, fighting for the freedom of this country sufficiently important to warrant a reply?

That is precisely the question the MP should be asking in the House, Jim. But somehow I don't think he will. Nobody gives a damn. What a world.

John

[dcdl12976]

Sadly this is the attitude we have had in all avenues of approach to this from government departments and officials my feeling is they are delaying tactics in the hope the questions will go away. I am convinced there is more known about this officially than is being said, i am equally convinced that we will not be told whatever that is. Of course it may just simply be that staff cuts and relocations of MOD staff at head office buildings in London has meant that a lot of work which was done previously is now not being done.

Cheers

Dave

[dcdl12976]

There is an interesting photo here http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/4143...t-photographs/ British soldiers outside what later became the Lunatic Asylum they look like prisoners to me but i could be wrong.

Apologies if this photo is known to the thread.

Dave

[ivor43]

hi all.
can i refer you to my post of 22nd Mar #583.

''Good Morning.
Well guys , you probably now realise that we are into something not quite what we expected. Welcome to St Vennant
In ‘’Ye Olden Days ‘’ a map would have shown the area as ‘’Do Not Enter. There Be DRAGONS Here’.I am very,very reluctant to enter there, as I believe I know who the Dragons are.
You have found that by looking at the War Diaries of the 3 units involved, that they are either wrong, RWF Dates, missing, rewritten. 2DLI or just plain missing. 1RB.
This would not have surfaced otherwise.
There are several known incident of FF.. I believe that the deaths of Lt Garnett of the RWF and 6 others ,Grave markers 23/5/40, RWF WD 24/5/40 . were a result of the advancing RWF coming under fire from a Co of 2/5 WY who had been tasked with the defence of St Floris to hold against the Known German advance into St Vennant. On 23^rd.
The account from Mr Cook Snr of the arty fire and the comments of the FOO that they believed that the Gremans held the position, would seem to indicate that British troops were not known to be further west than St Floris.which appears to have been the British Holding Position.
So why were they there ?
Another very strange thing occurs to Mr Cook Snr. On his return to UK he is Hospitalised and he arranges to speak to the parents of his friend who was killed in the FF incident. When he is released from Hospital he is not posted back to his regiment, he is posted, without any prior notification, for Parachute training to become an Air Gunner. I am not sure if you are aware but the life expectancy of an AG was measured in Days/weeks not months. Very Odd. But fortunately he survived and he has my total respect.
I might be a cynical old sod but it might seem that Mr Cook may have been deliberately put in Harms Way.
With regard to the reasons why British troop were in St Vennant. When it was known that the German’s were there on 23^rd and the British were holding at St Floris.I will not comment. I have my own opinion regarding this but that is how it will stay.
In conclusion I will just say that yes I believe that there is something very odd here and I do not believe that we are going to get any further with this, unless we are able to find someone outside this forum with a Lot of Seniority and Authority..


Ivor''

Sadly these recent posts do nothing too change my opinion of 7 months ago.
All i will say is that spending some time looking at the background etc of certain individuals killed in possible FF incidents is quite enlightening.


ivor

[dcdl12976]

Hi Ivor, you have im sure looked into the names and background of the people i have sent you a while back maybe you have come to the same conclusion i have that this goes right to the very top even above Field Marshall level. I am not going to post that information on here for what i think is obvious reasons howwever i can now give the forum some more information on the rest of Dads war.

After his para training which was at RAF Cardington near Bedford he was posted to Shorncliffe which he says was because it had an airstrip and was only a short hop to France, he says the reason for him being picked for these duties was they wanted people with a good knowledge of Northern France and who spoke very good French (this i didnt know) he made a lot of trips either by aircraft landing or by parachute into the area where he fought (possibly even the St Venant area though he says he cant remember exactly).

He says he did not know who he was working for which i dont think is correct, however the point of this is he could only have been working for one of two agencies, Secret intelligence services (later Mi6) or the SOE both of which if this is true may be part or all of the reasons why there is silence from all directions on this matter since if his name is mentioned in any paperwork relating to the enquiry even if only in passing then they will not release the information whilst he still lives except to him and in any case the 75 year rule will apply.

Fancyfull you may say, well possibly but a distinct possibility non the less.

Cheers
Dave

[ivor43]

Thanks for the Info Dave. but i would be quite surprised if your dads actions after May 1940 would have had any bearing on the original requests from Tony, as they were different units. I can fully understand why anything after his retraining would be unavailable, for the reasons you have stated.
I fully believe that the reasons for this 'Non Cooperation ' is based on the action at St Venant.


ivor

[dcdl12976]

Ivor whilst i understand your point, we have to consider that if ANY paperwork from the events of the time have dads name on it (or anyone connected to dad and the events) because of the later SIS or SOE connections it will be considered to be under the 75 year rule or only released to him personally mate.

Here is an extract from a lady who has investigated SOE etc many time.

SOE papers do exist in TNA, and slowly they are being made public domain however as you say personnel files are by Chancellors order retained for 100 years (on the assumption of individuals birth in 1930) if the individual is either proven or thought to be alive. However SOE personnel files of surviving/living members can be accessed by the member without restriction (post 2003 from memory).... but, the decision was made that any file of a living member that contains information of a member thought or proven to be alive will still be restricted without formal consent of that individual too.

So in reality this is a bit of a daisy chain as in most cases one document relates to another and that relates to another an so on...... but it is by no means a fait accompli.

Information on accessing the SOE files at TNA is obviously on the TNA website, I cant be 100% sure but in the past they were under the purview of Howard Davies in the Records Management Department. File statement: Special Operations Executive: Personnel Files (PF Series) code: HS9

It is also worth noting, that although the files initially can only be accessed by the surviving SOE member, once this has been done and there is no restricted material within they be released for family/public viewing if the member gives formal permission in writing to the appropriate archivist.

Last bit of advice I can give on the topic so far is that as suspect a large proportion of the SOE documentation was possibly destroyed by fire at the end of the war whilst in storage at Baker Street (many I have spoken with have some suspicion over this fact.. or more to the point if this was accidental or deliberate!). Below is the TNA statement put out when there files were released and there was a lot of dismay at the gaping holes...

..."SOE's archive is confused and incomplete. To some extent this is due to the haste and piecemeal fashion in which the organisation developed. For reasons of security no central registry was kept and each branch kept its own papers according to its own filing system. Toward the end of the war there was an attempt to reclassify the papers by subject, irrespective of origin. Only about a quarter of this task was completed in 1946 and as a result two unfinished systems of classification were left. Moreover two major destruction exercises took place, firstly the Oriental mission in Singapore destroyed it files in light of the pending Japanese advance and secondly the Middle Eastern Mission in Cairo, one of SOE's largest foreign stations, similarly destroyed its records as the Germans approached Alexandria. Instructions were subsequently issued for all surviving papers to be sent home after weeding of ephemeral material (Massingham, the Algiers base operating in France, destroyed virtually all its records with the exception of the personal files). Furthermore, a drastic weeding exercise was carried out by inexperienced staff in London. A fire in late 1945 also accounted for a further unknown number of files. Suggested subjects include Finance, FANY, Belgium and Poland. As a result an estimated 85% of SOE records held in London were destroyed..." The National Archive 2002

If your father was with SIS TNA will be a greater help as SIS was much better organised (being of military decent), they held a full Registry unit (incidentally based not far away in St Albans).

[ivor43]

Thanks Dave.
But Shorncliffe was an Airfield, however SOE and their Lysanders also flew into and out of Fields.
Having lived in Huntingdon for a number of years the no of WW2 airfields within the area was quite remarkable.
Alconbury (USAF).Wyton. Warboys. Upwood ( USAF Base Hospital ) and several others.
But there was a little known Field used by SOE at Somersham.

http://www.airfieldinformationexchan...4206-Somersham

I suspect that there were a no of similar fields dotted about the south.

But i still think that whatever your dad's activities after May 1940 i do not think they are the reason behind the attitude of MoD etc; which as far as i am concerned Stinks.
quoting Jim.
''Do they not deem the disappearance of a British soldier in the course of his duty, fighting for the freedom of this country sufficiently important to warrant a reply?''

Of course it warrants a reply and a possible investigation. I suspect that we may wish to change our attitude towards MoD/CWGC with regard to this enquiry. To do that we need someone with some Clout.
I believe that we have enough info which in the right hands could cause some serious embarrassment if it was made known.
So anyone have any contact with any Ex Officers/MP's who might be sympathetic to our cause.


ivor