saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

[Baconwallah]

Verdun, in the last days of May 1940, would be on the other side of the moon to the Germans as it was still French. The fortress did not fall until June 15th.

John

[ivor43]

John.
Thanks i wasn't aware of the dates.
As i said in a previous post the Aid Posts were by nature mobile organisations which worked independently. But, surely, they were responsible to someone. For example. any wounded German would not have been kept at the Field post for long,surely, they would have been taken somewhere else,further away from the front. A Clearing hospital ? which in turn would have been responsible to a Base or main hospital. if we are correct in assuming the Field Aid Post at Calonne closed down on 29th then would it be safe to assume that there would have been German troops there as well as Brits. so where would they have gone? would Cologne be an option?

ivor

[Baconwallah]

A General Hospital would receive the serious cases. All others would be sent from the Aid Post, the Verbandplatz, to the divisional Field Hospital, the Feldlazarett, with 200 beds, and even the serious cases would probably have had to go through there. Unfortunately there is little or no information on the medical services set-up in the war zone. We know how it was organised, but the where and when of individual units are hidden deep inside the divisional war diaries - if they still exist.

John

[ivor43]

John.
You probably know this. but it is interesting reading. came from Feldgrau.net.

http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewto...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

seems that the Base Hospital was at Btn HQ.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

Not so, Ivor. a Base Hosp would be in the rear zone. It had nothing to do with fast moving units such as Divisions and Corps. The largest a Div had was the Feldlazarett, the FIeld Hosp. At Battalion level there were just two Medical Officers, much overworked. Even a third MO for the 3-bn regiments could not be realised due to continuing shortages. If there was one, he was not a surgeon but a gas specialist.

John

[dcdl12976]

Folks as i understand this is how the German military evacuation of wounded took place for there own wounded, i assume Prisoners would go the same basic route.

HOSPITALIZATION AND EVACUATION The chain of evacuation of German wounded was found to be very similar to that utilized by the US Army, but triage, that is sorting of patients for specialized hospitalization, differed in several important aspects. First aid to the wounded was rendered in a Verwundetennest by a medical non-commissioned officer, in an extreme forward position. This treatment can be said to compare in echelon to that given by a US company aid man on the field of battle. Here the first dressing, improvised splinting for transportation ease, traction splinting, pressure bandages and tourniquets were applied. The wounded were evacuated from the Verwundetennest to the Truppenverbandplatz, which corresponded to the American battalion aid station, and where the first medical officer, corresponding to the US battalion surgeon, practiced. Treatment given at this station included: checking of the dressing (unless there was some indication the dressing was not to be disturbed) ; tracheotomy; application of occlusive dressings to open chest wounds; relief of pain; preparation for further evacuation to the rear; shock therapy in the forms of peristone, physiological salt solution, coramine, and external heat by electric heaters; prevention of infection, by injection of tetanus antitoxin and gas gangrene antitoxin, administration of sulfapyridine by mouth, insufflation of sulfanilamide powder into wound at time of first dressing, pressure bandage, and arrest of hemorrhage by application of tourniquet (rarely by hemostat or ligature); and catheterization.
From the Truppenverbandplatz all the wounded were evacuated to the Hauptverbandplatz, which was established about four miles to the rear of the combat line by the Sanitaets Kompanie of the division. This unit was staffed to perform the functions of both clearing and hospitalization. Its Tables of Organization provided for two operating surgeons, but in times of stress six or eight more surgeons might be added. The unit was designed to hospitalize two hundred patients, but often expanded to three or four hundred. When the flow of casualties was not heavy, all those patients with abdominal wounds and other non-transportable cases were given primary surgery at this installation. In addition, primary surgery was performed on minor wound cases here as well. All cases with major compound fractures, brain wounds, and chest wounds were evacuated to the Feldlazarett or to a Kriegslazarett, where they were treated with more definitive care. In the German medical field manuals the functions of a Hauptverbandplatz are listed as: tracheotomy; closure of open chest wounds; aspiration of the

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603
pericardium in cardiac tamponade; emergency amputations; final arrest of hemorrhage; administration of blood and blood substitutes; surgery on the non-transportables; and suprapubic cystostomy.
The Feldlazarett was the next unit in the chain of evacuation. It was an Army unit designed to care for two hundred patients. Ordinarily patients with head wounds and transportable chest wounds, severe muscle wounds, buttock wounds, and major compound fractures received primary surgery in the Feldlazarett. While it was attempted to perform intra-abdominal surgery as far forward as possible, such cases were often evacuated to the Feldlazarett for surgery whenever the Hauptverbandplatz was too busy. The Feldlazarett was staffed with only two surgeons, but in periods of pressure, it was often augmented by surgeons from other units.
The Kriegslazarett, or General Hospital, was usually assigned to the German Army Group. In Italy most of these installations were grouped at Merano and Cortina d'Ampezzo. It was their function to hospitalize all patients who were not returned to duty from the more forward units. In addition, certain groups of the wounded received primary surgery at the Kriegslazarett, such as penetrating head wounds complicated by involvement of the eye or ear, and maxillofacial wounds. In very busy periods, all patients with major wounds might be evacuated to the Kriegslazarett for surgery while the more forward units confined their surgery to men with wounds of such a nature that they would be able to return to their units and full duty within reasonable short periods of time after surgery. Also, as frequently occurred during heavy attack periods, abdominal and head wound cases were given no surgical care.
In addition to those units already mentioned, there were hospitals for the lightly sick, lightly wounded, and convalescent patients. In each German division was the Ersatz company which served as a replacement depot and reconditioning unit for lightly wounded who had received primary surgery at the Hauptverbandplatz. The wounded sent to this Ersatz company were given light exercise under the direction of a doctor, and were ordinarily returned to duty after one week. There were usually between fifty and one hundred lightly wounded in the Ersatz company, in addition to the replacements sent from Germany, who only stayed long enough to be equipped before being sent into combat. The officers and the doctor of the Ersatz company were limited service personnel by nature of previous wounds or illness.
In the army areas and in the general hospital centers, hospitals for the lightly sick and wounded were established by elements of transport units (Krankentransportabteilungen). They received their patients from Feldlazaretten in the Army area and from Kriegslazaretten in the Army Group area or hospital centers.

[dcdl12976]

Continued.

At the beginning of the war in Europe, all divisions had two Sanitaets Kompanies. At the end only the armored and mountain divisions had two each, but the Corps Surgeon had under his control one Sanitaets Kompanie for use where needed. When two Sanitaets Kompanies were available, two Hauptverbandplatzen were often established. In the beginning of an offensive, one Sanitaets Kompanie, horse-drawn, was placed only three or four kilometers behind the battle line to receive casualties. The other Kompanie, motorized, was held in reserve to be used after substantial gains had been made. Then, if further gains were made and the Hauptverbandplatz was required farther forward, the motorized Kompanie moved, leaving its patients to be taken over by the animal-drawn Kompanie. The patients of the animal-drawn Kompanie were left to be taken over by a Feldlazarett. Thus there were often two divisional units performing surgery ahead of the Army's most forward Feldlazarett. With a large-scale offensive division, army, and army group hospitals might all perform primary surgery only on the less seriously wounded, putting aside the intra-abdominal and intra-cranial wounds in favor of those who were more likely to live and return to full duty.

I need to stress here this is for the Germans own wounded but most i suspect would apply to Prisoners

[ivor43]

thanks guys.
while digging i found the following.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...en/Sankp-R.htm

We know that one of these units was at Calonne, so i will try and identify which one, could take some time.
well i have plenty of that.


ivor.

[dcdl12976]

3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf

SS Field Hospital 3

[dcdl12976]

Sad to say i believe we have to take into account the nature of the units in this area at the time.

SS VT, a highly politically indoctrinated unit containing a regiment (Germania) that came close to being wiped out at Merville and was only saved by the intervention of elements of the Division Totenkoph who were themselves in the main ex Concentration camp guards and thus saw any prisoners as a hindrance (Wormhoult is an example) where they massacred 65 Royal Norfolk Prisoners (15 survived to testify yet no one was brought to account) . Even German prosecutors a few years ago said there was insufficient evidence to bring Wilhelm Mohnke to trial. these units would have been followed by There Feldgendarmerie troops (including one from Corps and Army) all looking for prisoners held in hospitals or hidden by local French or just simply hiding to avoid capture which was part of there job. On finding any they would nearly always have been taken into custody no matter how badly injured they were. Following this would have come the members of the SD who were very nasty and it would seem had no conscience a all about committing atrocities, and finally the garrison troops who were generally 2nd line divisions with older more unfit men unsuitable for 1st line use. A s i said in an earlier post there may well have been units of German civilian police in the area as well.

I have asked a friend of mine an ex pat who has lived im Germany for a long time and has had a lot to do with HIAG (The SS Veterans Organisation) to see what he can find out for us, he also has many contacts within the German authorities and is as far as i am aware the only person ever to have been allowed to teach an d dress as the SS side of things in museums etc without being arrested.

Hopefully he may be able to open up avenues which non of us can.

Cheers

Dave