saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

[Verrieres]

Hi, Its been a while so I thought I`d pop back with an update on how things are going .
Anyone following will recall the list of PoWs from 2 DLI that I posted ? Thanks to Mr Brian Simms we have been able to establish that out of the whole list including officers there are no records to suggest any of them filled out Liberation questionaires or followed up with Forms Q.
In relation to updates from either the MoD ,CWGC or the MP ...there has been none.
The `Missing Men File` from the National archives dealing with the DLI has ,after researching those named within it, proved to be a part file (only) dealing mainly with men of `D` Company. Other men known to be missing like Anthony Corkhill have no mentions what so ever.
Contact with other families has resulted in the finding of another `wounded` soldier who disappeared the family were told he died in hospital possibly in an air raid? But no one knows where he is buried.
In relation to those whom enquiries were made then a pattern has emerged most were last seen alive but wounded on their way to the aid-post or awaiting medics.
An enquiry in 1946 (I now have the file) into War Crimes at St Venant focused on four cases (there were more) Statements were taken from men of the Germania SS Regiment who were present in May 1940.In the statements none of those interviewed admitted any knowledge of the killing of British soldiers at this time and each one denied any orders were given at Regimental level in relation to prisoners. Indeed few claimed to have actually been at St Venant when the town fell most speeding on to the Forest of Nieppe. There is a mention that another unit was operating in St Venant and from the descriptions of the uniforms, insignia and rings which these soldiers wore they were likened to Totenkopf SS (not in the area according to official publications) and there was a note in the file that further investigation into this was needed.
The investigation were satisfied that someone at a lower level of an unknown unit had issued an order..and these are the words in the official file..." That no prisoners be taken and wounded British soldiers were to be slaughtered" Some of those killed are known to be Royal Berks but other cases the victims are unknown ,wounded soldiers executed and plenty of civilian witnesses and their testimony was accepted by the court. The file reiterates that whilst only 6 cases are dealt with over 60 soldiers may have been murdered.
An account by the DLI signals officer Michael Farr was thought to exist I reviewed the Family papers last week but could not find the detailed account which does exist.In a letter to his mother following his capture there is reference to hundreds been killed but the letter was not the right way or time to go into detail of what had happened.
Whilst I was looking through the papers Mr Simms contacted me to tell me Farr had completed a Liberation report together with numerous others these Questionaires are currently `locked` in a MI 19 file. He has put in a Freedom of Information request to view these only to be told they are not there! He knows they are and will take this up on a later visit.
Tony is to recontact his MP it was my intention to offer to accompany Tony (as a bit of moral support) to visit his MP however his surgeries and my shift pattern make this impossible at present.

That I think is that for now although I`m sure I have simplified things a little, not much to hearten the search but we soldier on..

Best

Jim

[dcdl12976]

Thanks for the update Jim, much food for thought in it.

[ivor43]

Hi Folks.
Been a quiet summer but something has come up which just might have some relevance to Jim's research into 2 DLI. Have a look at the Thread
4192026 L/Cpl Leonard Brooks.
While not directly connected to this thread it contains info re the PoW situation.It might be that Brooks was a survivor of Robecq (B Co RWF) who ended up in Stalag XXA in Poland.With some 4,500 others from Dunkirk.
It is possibly worth reading the Wartime Memories Link. as it was a march of some 800 + miles and a lot of guys died during the march.
What would have been the procedure in these circumstances. a field grave. But would they have been recorded, and dealt with under the clearances. or are there dozens of unknown grave along the route of the march.
To strengthen this theory. there is evidence that RSM Goddard was in Stalag XX1B which is only 45ish miles from XXA. Have a look and get back to me.

ivor

[ivor43]

Hi All.
A thread has just been posted which contains something that may have some serious implications for this quest.

Private 9956 John Woodford, RWF WW1.

AP1 has attached a MIC which has the annotation '' Death Accepted 30/10/14 ''.Now in explanation Richard Ward says that usually, at that time, that would indicate the last time they were known to be alive. I have asked him for confirmation if the same system was being used in WW2.
This would have a considerable impact on our search and the responses from ''Officialdom''. we have worked on the assumption that it was evidence that Anthony was known to have Died on 29/5/40. if the WW1 system was being used then that may have been the last date he was known to be Alive. I hope someone can clarify this as it would change things quite dramatically.



ivor

[dcdl12976]

This would indeed open a whole new can of worms

[Baconwallah]

Here is the full text, Ivor:

"It is my painful duty to inform you that it has been decided by the War Office Casualty Branch that in view of information received by that department and the lapse of time during whieh no further news has been received your son 4449147 Pte Anthony Corkhill 2nd Bn Durham Light Infantry will be recorded as presumed died of wounds on or since the 29th May 1940."

In short, Anthony was still alive, apparently, on the 29th and then disappeared.

The crucial bit is of course the 'information received' - what was it, who gave it?

John

[dcdl12976]

Quite agree John, of course if it was one of his companions or in fact anyone given the info by word of mouth to the authorities then they may well be deceased logically there fore we are only going to find out more on this subject if something was put down in writing and this i suspect will not be the case. Do you know the date this sad message was given to the family ?

Dave

[ivor43]

John.
you may have missed a bit. and from WHERE.

ivor

[Baconwallah]

The 'who' will also answer the 'where', I think.

The letter was dated 28th November 1941. Points to a returning PoW in my opinion.

John

[ivor43]

Hi.
So this letter is only a 'Presumption of death' not a notification of death. In fact a 'missing in action'.

ivor