Infantry crisis as troops quit

[ap1]

I've been out 5yrs, and I really don't recognise the life the guys lead now. JC is right when he says it was different years ago, you worked hard, but were allowed to play hard aswell.

I don't think the young lads in the army today are any less disciplined than we were, watching the video footage of them fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, they do it with great professionalism, courage and determination.

The BBC this week has been identifying that the Deed of Covenant(We will die for you, but you must look after us and our families, and respect us) between the nation and its Armed Forces has broken down. I agree, slum housing, poor health care, poor pay for Jnr ranks, lack of good equipment, lack of funding, overstretched, over committed, politicians using the armed forces for party political gain.......the list is endless.

During the furore over the last few days, it has been left to a junior minister to face the media, that just about sums up the govenments atitude to its soldiers, where the hell was the Secretary of State for Defence. Probably on holiday, enjoying his extremely large salary, over his extended xmas break.

I would still like to see a General resign on the steps of Whitehall

[ukcalling]

Sorry if I offend as I am not Ex RWF and by default a guest but I thought this forum was called General Discussion

not at all mate im not disagreaing im in agreance 100%

[jcj]

UK calling
as Al Poole has indicated to me it looks as if I made a gaff (not the first time) and misread your quote. A sheer coincidence but today one of my new recruiting Sgts (2 R Welsh )had to give a talk as part of his training and the subject was poor retention, reasons why etc . What could and should be done to stem the flow of good soldiers leaving.It was very interesting informative and not least sad to see the decline in quality of life for single soldiers and pads. Anyway apologies for getting your post wrong.

[ukcalling]

UK calling
as Al Poole has indicated to me it looks as if I made a gaff (not the first time) and misread your quote. A sheer coincidence but today one of my new recruiting Sgts (2 R Welsh )had to give a talk as part of his training and the subject was poor retention, reasons why etc . What could and should be done to stem the flow of good soldiers leaving.It was very interesting informative and not least sad to see the decline in quality of life for single soldiers and pads. Anyway apologies for getting your post wrong.

No worries mate were all men

[Rog Ball 01]

With all the publicity about accm, for singles and married men, no wonder some are not happy and leaving the army.

Do you think that raising the age of enlistment and discharge for all is going to solve the problem, I certainly dont.

Rog 401

[beefy22]

My personal opinion is that i think that the soldiers we have coming through the gates these days are no better or worse then the soldier around 10-15years ago, however the army system has changed, from recruiting, depots, military law to name but a few.......and just to qoute what al has said "i don't think the young lads in the army today are any less disciplined than we were"

Belive me the boys do get disciplined these days but probably not in the same way as we all used to, the big one of any discipline action these days is AGAI 67 which probaly most of you are not aware of, and there is a lot of do`s and dont`s that come with this, so the system has changed 100%.

We still do a professional job throughout the armed forces, but the days of 'old and bold', scarey CSM`s and Provo Sgt`s with their own little ways of dealing with discipline have long gone. There are other ways which have been enforced.

[ianto73]

As always, a very good discussion on a very relevant topic. There is no doubt that our politicians have lost the respect not only of our service personnel, but the population at large - irrespective of their party. Although my nine years ended a very long time ago, it was still a very important part of my life and my failing was to lose touch with all my former comrades. National Service will never be re-instated because it will not buy votes at election time - that is all a politician thinks about - how do I get people to vote for me. I am so very glad that I do not have children or grandchildren for that matter that are likely to ask me about joining up because on the one hand I feel it is a good career but on the other hand I feel the services are completely undervalued by the public. Of course, there is an alternative to National Service to the Regular Forces and that could be a mandatory two year attachment to a TA unit which could help the undermanning. Apologies to those who may not agree, but being cynical comes with old age in my case.

[UKSniper]

Beefy was bang on. The soldiers of today are as good as those from the past. They have a massive range of technical equipment to learn nowadays and it all takes time to learn and adds to the reason why they should be paid good money. The equipment we have today is the best I have seen in my 23 years service. Some of it does arrive as an urgent operational, off the shelf buy, but its better than going without. It's probably a good idea the younger generation play games on Playstations as a lot of the equipment they now use is just like a game.

OP FRESCO, the Fireman strike started a massive decline in manning because all the troops were on the ground covering the strike and they saw their pay compared to the Fire Service, Police and Paramedic etc on the TV daily. It became obvious to them then, that they were not being paid enough. Now that they are spending most of their time in Iraq, they can see that they may as well be doing it as a civvy security operator and earn big bucks at the same time. It's a bit riskier but then the extra money makes up for that.

I do not agree with National Service or sending young offenders into the Army as we are too busy to sort out the problems of todays society. As it is Company Sergeant Majors spend 95% of their time sorting out the 5% of their Companies that do not toe the line.

The figures for the Royal Welsh do look bad but recruiting is going very well and all the Recruiters deserve a pat on the back. The problem is 'retention' in the training depots and the Battalions. Retention has been a long term problem and I have seen all sorts of initiatives to stem the flow. The only way to stop soldiers leaving is by paying them a decent wage. Bonuses here and there will not work. It needs to be a massive pay rise for the Pte/LCpl and bring them into line with a firefighter/Policeman.

Sorry if I've rattled on but recently I have seen some very good professional men walking through the door because of the risks for the lack of money. I know some of you will say the Army is not about the money but it is when a Pte cannot pay his bills or buy a house. He could not even afford to buy a house on the Gurnos in Merthyr. (No offence to any of our Merthyr brethren).

On a final note its good to see so many "serving Generals " now voicing their opinions to the public. It's good to see them standing up and being counted.

[Braz]

It's really sad to see so many fine Regiments struggling to keep hold of enough of their Men. I hope this Government sort it out soon. As for the Bad Lads, if Civvy Street don't want them, why should the Army have to have them.

[Gwyn Nicholas]

Dutch when I mentioned "Bad lads" And National Service, I wasn't actually suggesting anything it was meant as a rhetorical answer along with Addressing the situation etc. My personal view is that , I do not think National Service would be good for the forces and hopefully it will never come to that. To say that it will never happen would be a brave statemen given that Terrorism is now global and continuing to grow at an allarming rate. As for our current forces, I still believe them to be the best professional forces in the world with probably the worst administrative support from the MOD.