saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

[Verrieres]

Hello Ivor,

John may have the name of the school I assumed there was only one to be honest.Soldier 6 is simply Case No 6 in the War Crimes Files nothing at all to do with how many bodies were in a grave etc.Sorry. In relation to the exumations perhaps this will interest you from the CWGC

During the withdrawal of the British Expeditionary Force to Dunkirk in May 1940, there was heavy fighting in the area around Calonne-sur-la-Lys, and most of the inhabitants left the area. The school was used by the Germans as an aid post, and British soldiers who died at Calonne, either in battle or of wounds while prisoners, were buried by the Germans in the field behind the school. In 1942 the local people moved these graves into the communal cemetery, but in the meantime the rough grave markers had in many instances become illegible. The identity discs and personal possessions had mostly been removed before burial, so that in 1942 few of the dead could be identified.

The communal cemetery now contains 23 Commonwealth burials of the Second World War, 14 of which are unidentified. There are also two burials from the First World War.

Just googled schools and found two modern ones addresses are ;-
141 rue du Bois

62350 Calonne-sur-la-Lys

62350 Calonne-sur-la-Lys
and
178 rue du Bois

62350 Calonne-sur-la-Lys

62350 Calonne-sur-la-Lys

Rue du Bois isnt too far away from Rue de Robecq but I do not know if these are the school(s) in question.

Jim

[Baconwallah]

Soldier No. 6 to the best of my knowledge was buried in the Robecq Road mass grave. That was to the south of St Venant, nowhere near Calonne.

John

[Verrieres]

I wonder if anyone can advise who actually holds cemetery buriel records? After yet another unsuccesful enquiry with the CWGC (unrelated to this search) in which they got my name,the casualty details including awards all totally wrong in their reply, I have now come to the conclusion they are either deliberately misleading people or totally incompetant in their admin work.(I cannot fault their horticultural staff who are 1st Class).
The records in question were produced for every War Cemetery they also show the co=ordinates of field/temp graves despite what we are being told.Hopefully the image linked below is visible and you can get an idea of what these records hold.Go to the link and click on the left side Misidentified Graves

http://www.jackclegg3.webspace.virginmedia.com/


Jim

[Verrieres]

Hello,

Just a quick update and to let everyone know this search is continuing.Behind the scenes Tony has to date had no luck with the researcher he hired so in the meanwhile I have spoken with John regarding a proposal we received in respect of composing a letter appealing to the MoD to release to the Corkhill family any `additional` records they may hold covering the final two days of Anthony Corkhills life .This letter was to be backed up by a similar letter to the Corkhills MP asking for their support in their search. We have contacted Tony and he has agreed to this course of action.
The letter is prepared,the evidence (such as we have) is copied,the letter to the MP is completed.Today Tony will send off these documents and ............ we hope and we wait.
Best Wishes

Jim

[ivor43]

hi all.
Thanks Jim, i am in full agreement with this course of action and i hope it brings results.
Sadly, however, i have found info that would lead me to believe that nothing will be found. But i will not say any more about this, yet.


ivor

[dcdl12976]

I too wish you luck with this however i have reservations as Ivor has said.

[Verrieres]

Hello,
After 73 years hope and luck is all we have,nevertheless in the past month or two we have turned up an entry in the DLI Non Effective Book for Anthony `Died in France 29th May 1940`Anthonys `Casualty Card` amended from missing 10/05/40-29/05/1940 to ` Died of Wounds 29th May 1940` and Anthonys service records pension date `29 May 1940`. Sevice Record amendment by the War Office `Dead 29th May 1940`made Oct 41 Letter to the Corkhill Family November 1941 `Died 29th May 1940` bear in mind according to the `official` records Anthony Corkhill was last seen alive on the 27th May 1940 by RSM Goddard this was received by the Red Cross in Oct 41 if this was indeed the last time Anthony was seen alive why is his date of death two days later on all documents? Why did the War Office so meticulous in searching out missing men not even despatch a searcher party for Anthony Corkhill? Because his death is recorded..................someone else bore last witness to Anthonys death will that record have survived ?.......................?

Best

Jim

[ivor43]

Hi all.

Jim, your last post has given me some interesting thoughts. Let us start with the ‘’ Missing ‘’ dates. Where actually where 2DLI and the rest of the Bgd on 10/5 /40.
When this was raised some time ago I think I asked if it was possible that he may have been taken off 2DLI and transferred to Bgd.
But now I wonder. It has been suggested that Anthony may have been a DR. Now someone is going to have to put me right on this.
Were DR’s attached to HQ’s, Sigs or units?
If so would they then wear the Uniforms of the unit to which they were then attached ?.
What makes me wonder about this is that we frequently see ‘Unknowns’ with their unit eg Manchester Rgt.
Is there any possibility, therefore that Anthony could be not an unknown 2DLI but an unknown something else.
The DR idea might also explain why Anthony appears to have been away from RSM Goddard.. He may have been away since the 10^th.

Now let us look at Oct 41.
It appears that Anthony’s DoD is accepted as 29.5.40 during Oct. The Red Cross received Goddard’s letter in Oct so it would seem unlikely that he knew of Anthony’s death when he wrote it, but it seems to prove when last seen alive.
But Oct 41 is significant for something else. The Field Grave Clearances.
Under normal circumstances the only persons authorised to sign Death Certificates are Doctors. I assume therefore that one of the purposes of the clearances was to enable a Cert to be signed.
Now we have a puzzle. A body in the ground for 17 months is going to be difficult to ID from any physical remains. The only way will be from ‘Dog Tags’ or personal effects., Anthony had no tags.
Hmmm.
Unless.
If Anthony is already in a Hospital, Calonne, Then there will be a file on him. If his manner of death is as we suspect, then his file can be closed, by a doctor. Died Of Wounds 29/5/1940. and his Burial Place Would Be Known to those who did the clearances in 1941. as I assume the Hospital files would have been made available to those doing the clearance, and I would expect his grave location to have been noted.
However. Although the Hospital report might state the burial position of a known at the time of death , if in 41 the ID could not be Proven , would the person then become an Unknown. hmmm .

ivor

[dcdl12976]

I can answer a couple of your questions Ivor, "Wearing uniforms of unit which detached to " Simlpy put no because the only real difference would be the regimental cap badge and given the pride most soldiers have in there badged regiment changing cap badges without being officially sanctioned ordered and officialy transfered would be highly unlikely (and against Army Regs anyway). It is possible i suppose but highly unlikely

Dispatch riders.
From what Dad tells me and from my own experience generally they would be part of HQ but as has been said before that does not mean they were always at HQ, quite the reverse in fact since the nature of there job means they could be anywhere, anytime, if so ordered. Of course it is posible for a DR to be seconded to Brigader or another Regiment but in my view unlikely since Brigade in particular would have a good complement of DR,s in there own right however it is possible Anrthony was at Brigade on a visit as a DR and was grabbed by an officer or senior rank and ordered to do a job for them.

Cheers now

Dave

[Verrieres]

I cannot rule anything out of course but the cap badge is a non starter even attached to brigade they would wear their parent regt cap badges.In 1940 the battledress blouse was ,in the main,very plain if Anthony had been an NCO then his stripe(s)would have been very distinct with light infantry units backed with dark green.
The DR for the DLI ferrying messages to and from Brigade was Pte Fred Cottier as Dave points out they were part of Hq Company. We cannot say for sure which Company Anthony was with at the end but we know which ever one he was with it was fighting near the canal because this is where RSM Goddard saw him.
There are no known records of Anthony Corkhill in any hospital,at least not identified as Anthony,the Red Cross checked and so did John with his German contacts.Anthonys death was confirmed in Oct 41 but it appears this was known by the Army as early as June 1940 when the dates 10/05/40-29/05/40 were first given .
Interestingly enough the amendment on his service record reads `DIED OF WOUNDS ON or SINCE 29/05/1940` which confirms even more that someone else,not RSM Goddard,saw Anthony Corkhill after the 27th May 1940. Ivor you are right about the RSM he did`nt know Anthony was dead,I have spoken with his son about this,the mystery of Anthony Corkhill haunted his father until the day he died he had always assumed he was simply in another camp.

Best

Jim