saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

[ivor43]

John.
I may have confused this a bit.
What i mean is, original Time of Death Burials. With the Deaths in Calonne at least 3 died before the German hospital could have been operating so there is a possibility that they would have been buried in the cemetery not the school field so would presumably not have been part of the 41/2 clearance. This is what i would understand as Final Resting Place Burials,Meaning not moved later. ( Could be wrong ).
But we know that a number were buried in the School Field and moved in 41/2 . so just slightly confused. But thats nothing new. :)))




ivor

[Verrieres]

Hello Ivor,
I think I caused the initial confusion.Final resting place refers to where they lie today irrespective of previous buriels and exumations.Sorry

Best


Jim

John.
I may have confused this a bit.
What i mean is, original Time of Death Burials. With the Deaths in Calonne at least 3 died before the German hospital could have been operating so there is a possibility that they would have been buried in the cemetery not the school field so would presumably not have been part of the 41/2 clearance. This is what i would understand as Final Resting Place Burials,Meaning not moved later. ( Could be wrong ).
But we know that a number were buried in the School Field and moved in 41/2 . so just slightly confused. But thats nothing new. :)))




ivor

[ivor43]

Jim
Thanks for that. Am on holiday in Cyprus at the moment and dont have full access. be in touch more next week.


ivor

[Verrieres]

Hello,
I spent a couple of hours in Durham City this morning and managed to visit the records office there.This place holds the documents previously held at the DLI museum.I found one mention of Anthony Corkhill in the Non Effective Discharge book for 1940.The entry simply reads;-
4449147 CORKHILL.A, PTE. DIED IN FRANCE 29th MAY 1940.

Nothing new, simply confirms really that Anthony was known to have died on this date,not believed missing,not believed killed ...died 29th May 1940.Who witnessed this? Who reported his death to the Army?


Jim

[dcdl12976]

Hmm by that Jim it would appear that someone may have been present when he died it may have been another prisoner and was reported when he returned to England or maybe a French national or even the Germans through the red cross

[ivor43]

Hi all.
after a nice sunny and relaxing week in Cyprus, now ready for battle again.
Jim, Final Resting Places. Ok i accept your explanation, but i am still puzzled.In your post #493 you quote 15 temp/field graves in St Floris and 34 in Robecq. But CWGC have only 7 in St Floris and 9 in Robecq. all of which appear to have died prior to the German advance. Would i be right in thinking that these could have been buried in the local cemetery by their units and the burials fully recorded so there would have been no need to exhume them in 41/2. this means that 8 of the St Floris and 25 of the Robecq burials were moved somewhere else, St Venant ?
At Calonne you quote 22 although John says 25. but that is not a problem, we know at least 3 must have died prior to the Field Post starting operation, again these may have been buried in the Cemetery and recorded. This would indicate 22 either in the School field or in field graves in the area. I believe the only way to solve this is to find out if a 41/2 list exists for Calonne.
Would it have been kept by the Mayors office or would it be with MoD/CWGC which is where i would expect it to be, they may be more helpful here than St Venant.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

Calonne: 2 - Great War, 22 - May 1940, 1 - RAF Oct 1940, so 25 in all.

John

[ivor43]

Thanks John.No great problem it just means revising figures, which just might be interesting.
So we go back to 22 burials.we have 11 known burials and have just discounted 3 knowns 2 WW1 and the RAF guy. then we have 8, three of which may have died before the Germans arrived, 2 on 24th and one between 25/27 so may be already in the cemetery. leaving 5.one on 27,one on 28 and 2 on 29 with one between 26/27, which where most probably in the school field.
There are 11 unknown and 3 whose unit was known (14) we are told that 5 had their ID removed in Hospital so we are down to 9. Now if it could be possible to establish if there were any field graves,other than the school field, in the area then, in theory, it should be possible to establish if any other unknowns died at the hospital. Possibly Anthony if he was taken there.
Although this seems complex it would seem to indicate that there could be as few as 10 or so graves in the school field. A list would be very handy.



ivor

[Verrieres]

Hi all.
after a nice sunny and relaxing week in Cyprus, now ready for battle again.
Jim, Final Resting Places. Ok i accept your explanation, but i am still puzzled.In your post #493 you quote 15 temp/field graves in St Floris and 34 in Robecq. But CWGC have only 7 in St Floris and 9 in Robecq. all of which appear to have died prior to the German advance. Would i be right in thinking that these could have been buried in the local cemetery by their units and the burials fully recorded so there would have been no need to exhume them in 41/2. this means that 8 of the St Floris and 25 of the Robecq burials were moved somewhere else, St Venant ?
At Calonne you quote 22 although John says 25. but that is not a problem, we know at least 3 must have died prior to the Field Post starting operation, again these may have been buried in the Cemetery and recorded. This would indicate 22 either in the School field or in field graves in the area. I believe the only way to solve this is to find out if a 41/2 list exists for Calonne.
Would it have been kept by the Mayors office or would it be with MoD/CWGC which is where i would expect it to be, they may be more helpful here than St Venant.


ivor

Hello Ivor,
The figures are not mine as I stated I quoted them from M.Faivres account he is the man on the ground so to speak.These were field graves not proper buriels as field graves I would not think these would have been directly into a cemetery the term field grave is simply a `battlefield grave` who was buried where and from which original location are contained on lists.M.Faivre has one,as do the MoD as both were quoted in the book `The Search for Tom`that was why Tom Rodgers was given a `believed to be`headstone because both lists differed somewhat.Does the CWGC hold a list ?? Thats a million dollar question and one which only the CWGC can answer...but they wo`nt!
The CWGC do not even list where the unknowns lie we have had to use other sources to determine their positions within the St Venant cemetery the other cemeteries are proving a little harder to source.
Dave ,Tony is at this time attempting to locate a possible Q Form detailing Pte Corkhills demise failing that a prisoners questionaire? The Red Cross hold nothing apart from the enquiry to RSM Goddard. The Germans have no record of him.Did a Frenchman witness his death ?Possibly but how would he know Anthony ?Tony believes he was`nt wearing a Dog Tag and the DLI had only been in St Venant a couple of days.Somewhere there is a statement detailing the last hours of Anthonys life..we have to continue to believe that .


Jim

[ivor43]

Morning all
First, Jim, i have a great deal of faith in the outcome of this, we will succeed.
Second. if you think that my mathematical musings of last night were the ramblings of an old man who had lost his marbles, maybe, but it has proved an interesting exercise for me at least.
I have come to the conclusion that something doe's not fit.
In order to reorganise my marbles i ask you to stick with me on this it will make sense in the end.
Ok, the German Aid Post/ School, do we know exactly where it was, possibly not.
In the UK there was a practice of naming a school for the particular area ,like New Road Primary or similar.Is there a possibility that there could have been a Robecq Rd school on the edge of Calonne, this is a rural community so there may be a possibility. so maybe the Aid Post was out here.
Speculation, well possibly not.
Right, Jim, early in the thread we spoke of Soldier 6. who i believe fitted the description of Anthony' wounds. who i also seem to recall was found in a grave in a field at the side of the Robecq Rd. Could This Have Been The School Field ?????
Even the number Soldier 6 may be significant. We know that 5 men had their ID removed in the Hospital could Soldier 6 be a man who did not have ID to start with,Anthony.
Do you know how many bodies were in this grave. i would expect al least 11.




ivor