Not really interesting, Ivor. The first article concerns the bombing of St Venent by the Luiftwaffe on the 22nd. The second article is a short review of the fighting, as taken from M Faivre's book. Nothing we didn't know already.
You may recall some time ago I posted in regard to an `oral` account of the battle seen from 2DLI HQ Companys perspective held at the IWM which unfortunately is`nt available online at present (or the near future for that case) so I do not know if this will come as good or bad news.Anyway I have found a second `oral` account the bad news is it too is at the IWM and is `unavailable` online. What it contains is an account from Pte Fred Cottier 2nd DLI the IWM lists this amongst the topics covered in the interview/account
...attack on Headquarters Company in graveyard; near attack on asylum; evacuation of patients from asylum; shelling from Germans; events in Battalion Headquarters; dispatch taken to brigade; events on return journey; capture of Battalion and Brigade Headquarters; start of period without unit; reaction to situation; story of Bugle Major Mason; activities and events during retreat to Dunkirk;....
Frustrating is`nt it!
<DT>Catalogue number </DT><DD>
10601
</DD><DT>Subject period </DT><DD>Second World War</DD><DT>Production date </DT><DD>1991</DD><DT>Alternative Names </DT><DD>
"Frustrating" doesn't even come close, Jim. Two eyewitness accounts, and even from HQ Coy, and no way of getting at them.
Would the IWM be more inclined to assist if they knew we need this material to try and bring an old soldier in from the cold? But then, I assume you told them.
There must be someone who knows someone who knows a brass hat at the IWM.
"Frustrating" doesn't even come close, Jim. Two eyewitness accounts, and even from HQ Coy, and no way of getting at them.
Would the IWM be more inclined to assist if they knew we need this material to try and bring an old soldier in from the cold? But then, I assume you told them.
There must be someone who knows someone who knows a brass hat at the IWM.
John
Shortly after posting I have received some very encouraging news regarding the recordings they are still not available online from the IWM but and this will not be confirmed until Friday at the earliest but.............I may yet have access through Durhams `Listen to the Soldier Project` Fingers crossed everyone!
Just don`t know what to say anymore,Shot down in flames again!!!
Thank you for your email I am very sorry but at the moment you cannot access the 'Listen to the Soldier' collection at the Record Office. There has been problems with the system, which is provided by the Imperial War Museum. We have had contact with them about the problem, but as yet it has not been solved.
It may help if you are able to contact IWM to let them know you want to access the audio files. It is possible that they may be able to suggest an alternative way.
As some of you may recall I wanted to know what was going on in the area when our guy’s arrived. I think I now have a pretty good idea.
Prior to the 23rd the Bassee Canal line was being held to the north and south of Robecq by 137 Bgd which was mainly the 2/5 West Yorkshire’s and a French unit, which was withdrawn, leaving a gap at Robecq. On the 22nd there is a report that, I believe it was 228 Field Co R.E. was mineing the bridges and strengthening defences behind the Canal line.
It is known that on 23rd the German’s had crossed the Canal and where in St Venant with patrols heading towards Merville. Major Ellis in his The War In France and Flanders 1939 – 1940 (Ch9) states that 2/5 had sent a Co to Calonne and one to St Floris to protect the flank of this incursion. The remainder of 2/5 is still recorded as being in Robecq.
This would appear to be the situation when 1RWF/2DLI (6th Bgd) arrived as I believe also on the 23rd
.As far as I am aware the objectives for the 6th were the bridges at Robecq and also they were to be defended to the last man. B Co RWF where able to fight their way into Robecq. but the others were unable to gain their objectives due to the German’s presence in prepared defences. So they fell back to St Floris. It was only at the intervention of Col Harrison that they were in St Venant at all. I can find no indication that St Venant was ever part of the defensive strategy. However St Floris was. Odd.
It is recorded, again by Major Ellis that the 2/5 WY who where holding the German’s at Calonne were relieved by 2nd Div and withdrew to reserve at St Floris?
Also I have posted a link to a document which would appear to show that on 24th Haverskirque was in German hands. This would account for the entry in the RWF WD of the party of engineers approaching St Venant from that direction. This would make the St Venant bridge a very dangerous crossing point, as the RWF HQ troops found.
Again it is recorded that 2/5 withdrew from St Floris and the RWF/2DLI were not made aware of this leaving them exposed.
All the above has been obtained from various sources on the web. But it raises a few interesting points.
First, why St Floris. I can understand it from the point of view of defending the flank of the German break through. But to send troops to there as reserve from Calonne when the R.V was the forest surely the most obvious route would have been the Calonne to Merville Rd.
I said very early on in this investigation that I thought that St Floris might hold the key. What I have found seems to reinforce this belief.
Second. the stop order of 24th was not ordered by Hitler, he just confirmed an order by Von Runstead. This order only referred to the tank units and the purpose was to allow the other mechanised units to catch up. but not all units obeyed it. Those that fell back did so for repair etc. however a large no of the German High Command were unhappy with the way the tanks were operating as independent units far ahead of the infantry. It was also felt that there was a risk using tanks in this final stage of this part of the operation as the mopping up was better suited to the infantry and the tanks were needed for the next phase of the operation.
Several other points have arisen, but these need further digging.
In conclusion, while this does not move our search any further foreword it might just indicate that there is some significance to St Floris that we are not aware of.
"I was part of a group guarding a crossroads where we were expecting the Germans to cross this was close to a canal with a footbridge. On the canal was a large boat which we searched in case there was Germans hiding or using it. We had not been there long when we were hit by an artillery strike which killed 7 men and wounded several others including me when i was in the area last year on a battlefield tour i thought of looking for my mate Jonno,s grave but i didn’t know where to start or if i would be able to find it. My mates name was Peter Joynson and he died in my arms and i buried him by the side of the crossroads putting his rifle at the grave with his helmet and dog tags on the butt. A short while later young artillery FOO came running up in tears saying im so sorry but this is the location they gave me for German positions it seems we had been hit by our own artillery. When i eventually got back to England i was placed in a hospital in Warwick and spoke to the nurses asking if they knew Jonno,s parents who i thought lived very near to the hospital (his father was Brigadier retired Laurence Bright Joynson) one of them knew where the house was and i asked them to ask Jonno,s parents to come and see me. When they arrived i told them what had happened to there son for which they thanked me".
After this i went home and checked the WGC web site where i found Jonno,s details he was at some point reburied in Haverskque British Cemetery Row EE Grave 12
Jonno,s details are as follows.
Peter Joyson
Rank Lance corporal
Service no 5336849
Died 25/5/1940
Age 19
Son of Laurence Bright Joyson and Ethel Vera Joynson of Warwick.
Dad says the crossroads was NOT in a town but was very close to the canal.
I intend to ask Dad a few more questions soon but at 94 he isnt keen on talking to much about those days (understanable).
Now a question for the forum.
Does anyone know where the Berks Bn HQ was as this would help place the crossroads since all being well i intend to take Dad to the area so he can say Goodbye to his mate and place a wreath on the grave as he has asked.
From looking a the google map there is not many crossroads that fit the criteria (one such is just to the North of the St venant Bridge on the road to Haverskque), however from the posts on here this was not the Royal Berks area unless of course they were still advancing to retake the area on the morning of the 25th.
Speaking of the Royal berks HQ earlier it the thread a link was posted to some prisoners outside a barn and farm . I know the HQ was captured on the 27th by the Germans could this phots be of the Berks HQ , i guess we may never know.
I hope you find this first hand account of the time interesting and sorry for going off the OP,s thread.
I'd like to say thank you for taking the time to get involved in this quest. Although it was originated by me, I am happy to say that I play the smallest part of all who have posted or have taken an interest. Happy, because others have a far superior knowledge to mine.
If you've read much of this thread you will have noticed that John (Baconwallah) and Jim (Verrieres) have kept the whole thing afloat since the summer and continue to do so. Ivor (Vori101) chips in regularly with all sorts of thought provoking stuff, and quite a few others have made good contributions.
I am certain that in a day or so, someone will identify the Berks Bn HQ or give you some good information.
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Originally Posted by Baconwallah
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