saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

[Verrieres]

Hello,
Just as an update for those following this story;-

After Tony had sourced a researcher to look into Q80 it looked as though we were finally moving,however,this may be a drawn out affair as the researcher is not up to speed nor does it seem he has undertaken this type of work before we need other lines of enquiry to keep `the pot boiling`I have recently ran a couple of things past Tony and John these relate to the Missing Men register and why Anthony Corkhill was known to be DEAD and not classed as a missing man worthy of an investigation by the British Army in 42-43-44-45.
At the time of Anthony Corkhills disappearance in 1940 his family would have received the dreaded `Missing presumed Killed in Action` telegram had he been taken prisoner another Telegram would have been received stating he was a `PoW` to the best of my knowledge no second telegram was ever received yet between 1940-42 the date of Anthonys death was confirmed as the 29th May 1940.For this to be taken as gospel a witness or documented evidence or both would have had to be found.
A returning Dunkirk survivor ?...possibly... but a returning survivor would not have completed a `PoW questionaire which in turn would have (if applicable) led to the filing of a Q Form as that survivor was never a PoW in the first place?
So who could have completed such a form prior to release in 1945? There are two possibilities (and I stand to be corrected) as far as I can fathom ..an escapee from captivity late 1942 early 1943 (This was period for the missing men enquiries) but something that up to now I had not considered a repatriated wounded Prisoner,repatriated in April 1942?
If a repatriated DLI PoW filed his report stating Anthony was dead and attached a Q form (if in his opinion he had witnessed a warcrime or mistreatment of Anthony) then this would have been the proof needed to record Anthonys death as 29th May 1940.It may also explain that when the Corkhill Family and the Red Cross contacted RSM Goddard (42-43)that the RSM could find no clues or witnesses to Anthonys fate as the witness was already home? Bearing in mind the severe nature of these repatriated mens wounds did the witness live to see the end of the war? No witnesses were found by Tonys dad despite his search.
Anyway ,I hope I have explained that piece well enough (or have I just confused people more)
To my main aim...Thousands and Thousands of PoW questionaires were completed any one could hold the clue we are all desperately seeking ,far too many to manually sort through.My proposal to Tony and John is I source the repatriated 2 DLI prisoners ...from those I find we will hopefully have two dozen or so Rank ,Names and Army Numbers which can be used to find not thousands but two dozen or so PoW questionaires that might,and I emphasis might,just have a little gem written upon them...what is there to lose if all else fails we have ruled out another possibility and we will move on.
I`m confident I will secure that list in the next week or so as I know just where to look!

Best Wishes

Jim

[ivor43]

hi Jim.
this sound like a good idea.
But.
this would generate another set of questions if we take it in connection with what we already believe.
we believe that Anthony was seen wounded on 27/may as witnessed by RSM Goddard. when being marched off to POW camp. If we believe that Anthony was the wounded man shot by the S.S. on 29th then as far as we know the only witnesses were the farmer and his friend. so something doesn't fit.
unless.
if we assume that Anthony was taken by the Germans to a field hospital,lets assume the one at Calonne, where he died on 29/may then there would certainly be witnesses.
Now i am starting to wonder about the dates. whilst we know the dates in the War Diary's may be suspect,i think we have to accept the date given by RSM as correct as i think there is ample evidence to confirm it.
But the 29th, i am having some doubts about.if the soldier shot on 29th was Not Anthony. then where was Anthony ? in hospital ?. have we got a situation whereby if War Crimes got hold of the report with 29th on it and assumed it was Anthony, then we could have a problem here. if my memory is correct it has been said that the W.C.C. did not investigate this incident.
i am having some problems with the idea of seriously wounded men being repatriated being able to remember an exact date which would appear to be 2 days after the Germans retook the area.
sorry Jim. do not let me put you off the idea, it just doesn't seem to work for me. good luck. i hope you can prove me wrong.
it would be good if we could come up with some records from the field hospitals in the area.


ivor.

[Verrieres]

Hello Ivor,
I`ll see if I can convince you a little more. The soldier who was killed and we have the two witnesses for was killed outside of Ferme Boulet on the Rue Bas Hamel junction at 12.30hrs 27th May 1940 if we believe the recorded times this cannot have been Anthony wrong place and wrong time the battle at the St Venant bridge ended much later if Anthony had been wounded and taken earlier in the battle to Ferme Boulet (Which was a temp British Hospital) then RSM Goddard could not have came across him at the Canal Bank.Although it would seem likely that this was not Anthony Corkhill it was reported that up to 60 British soldiers had been murdered and I very much doubt there was a file set up for each incident so we cannot rule out Anthony was not shot /murdered elsewhere.If Q80 exists someone had to complete it and while their memory was fresh.
The CWGC in the case of missing men record the deaths of these individuals as the last time they were seen alive and the date in which their bodies were recovered as Anthonys body was not recovered, then through investigation RSM Goddard was the last to see Anthony on the 27th May 1940 if the CWGC follow their own rules why is Anthony listed as dying two days later on the 29th May 1940...because (I believe) someonelse saw Anthony after RSM Goddard either alive on the 29th or killed on this day.The CWGC state their dates are supplied by the Army ..then who saw Anthony Corkhill alive on the 29th certainly RSM Goddard could find no witnesses and on his return I know from his son Ian that the RSM played a major part in ex servicemens associations a chance to talk to old comrades yet none could shed any light on Anthony Corkhill?
This is where my idea of the repatriated PoWs came from, a possible witness who filled in a questionaire at the time Anthony was declared to have died all ifs and buts I know but if its a dead end then what have we lost? Nothing but my time which I`m happy to give .The wounds these men suffered are not a handicap either for I have just published on my website a detailed eight page account from another DLI who was repatriated (1st DLI) and it is marvellously detailed.
One thing I should have added too Ivor is Tony is researching a second incident where two unknown British soldiers were shot/murdered in hospital who knows what if anything the list will bring out but I owe it to Anthony Corkhill to try.
Thanks Ivor
Best Wishes

Jim

[ivor43]

Jim.
you don't have to convince me, my only concern was about who may have witnessed his death.
i think, some time back i speculated that he died in hospital, when i suggested that his wounds may have been more severe than was thought. i have to admit that it never occurred to me that he may have been shot in the hospital. but with the S.S who knows.
as i said in my last post this is, really, the only place he could have been seen on 29th by another British Serviceman.
what is the location of the incident that Tony is investigating ?


ivor.

[Verrieres]

Hello Ivor,
You are right it can only have been a British serviceman as there is no record of Anthony by either the Swiss nor the Germans I am hoping because the Roll is so decisive that one of those repatriated is our witness fingers crossed.
The hospital incident Tony has mentioned twice but he is having difficulty relocating his file all I know is it is in the same geographical area within the relevent time frames.Sorry I do not know any details off hand
Best Wishes

Jim

[ivor43]

ok
thanks Jim. it's just that i think i read that there were some unknowns buried in the field at the rear of the school in Calonne which was the Hospital. we will have to wait and see.


ivor

[teecee1941]

Steve, many thanks for your kind words.

Tony

[Baconwallah]

The hospital under discussion was, if I remember correctly, Merville. Would be a likely spot, as it was in 3 Pz Div's area,

John

[ivor43]

thanks John. but i am not sure that Merville fits with Anthony. If i recall rightly the Germans were not in Merville on 27th so a slight problem. the only field hospital we know of operating on 27th was Calonne.
Now let me ask a question or two at least.
Does a field hospital follow behind the front line. what i am after is .. would a hospital move from Calonne to Merville ..complete with any wounded under treatment. if so then there is a possibility of Anthony being in Merville.
My second question is ... how many wounded would it accommodate. and would German wounded be sent to the rear after basic treatment whereas British troops, now POW's, might remain at the hospital ?.
Now,i am having a major problem with the idea of wounded POW's being shot in hospital, i know the S.S. were capable of anything, but i am trying very hard to figure out why they would shoot wounded men.
I can only come up with one possible,even if unlikely idea.
By the 29th the Germans had Dunkirque virtually surrounded. i wonder if this particular hospital was no longer required and was being wound up.The British POW's were to be moved to another place provided they could WALK. those that could not were shot.
total fantasy but ............

[Baconwallah]

Ivor, the Jerries were in Merville on the 29th, the day Anthony died officially.

Also, why should "hospital" mean a field hospital? Merville had a perfectly functional cottage hospital. There is evidence of at least one Durham there, later taken to a PoW camp in Germany.

John