saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

[Baconwallah]

I agree, Ivor, there's probably not much more we can do. But my friend is hot on the trail of the Ferme Boulet. I understand that all family members are now dead. That means that the farm will be under new management and will have a different name now. I am reasonably confident that he will find it. And my contacts in the German war graves commission and the Bundeswehr Museum are trying to discover more about that pathologist and his report. So there's hope.

On the whole, I think we did rather well!

John

[ivor43]

hi again.
i found the ref i needed.it was,of all places in the RWF Museum Doc.Quote:-

''Apart from heavy shelling and the sight of numbers of German tanks and infantry moving across the front, 26 May was uneventful. The Durham Light Infantry took over Saint-Floris, allowing the Battalion to concentrate around Saint-Venant. Having sent the transport over the canal, Lieutenant Colonel Harrison sought permission to withdraw to the north bank, but this was refused, so the Battalion settled down to await the inevitable attack. This started at 8 a.m. on 27 May, and it was soon clear that no weapons were available that could stop the medium tanks of the 3rd Panzer Division. At 9 a.m. the Brigadier ordered the D.L.I. to fall back through the Royal Welch, but they were too closely engaged to extricate themselves. Colonel Harrison therefore ordered all his men who could get clear to double back over the canal bridge which was now under machine-gun fire from both sides. He followed them but was killed shortly after reaching the north bank. At this stage it was found that the engineers waiting to demolish the bridge were no longer there, so that the German tanks were able to cross on the heels of the survivors, killing some and taking others prisoner. ''

3rd Panzer Division:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/51528342/G...on-10-May-1940

i think that i must have misunderstood this point when i first read it.i now think it means that the bridge was now under fire,not as i thought from Germans on both sides of the Lys. but from both the Brits and the Germans.
This i find rather disturbing.


ivor.

[ap1]

Fascinating thread guys, well done. It will be interesting to see how it later develops. Lots and lots of work still to be done on WW2, barely touched in reality. I think the interest in it from RWF researchers will increase when the Regimental Records volume covering WW2 is finally published. I still get a chill, when I read the passage in The Red Dragon, which describes the 1st Bn dug in overlooking the River Dyle, as they spot the first German troops on the other side of the river bank, the start of the retreat to Dunkirk for 1RWF. Most of the Bn's first ever taste of action. Which eventually ended in 1945 in the jungles of Burma(for the small few who managed to escape Dunkirk).

[Baconwallah]

Disturbing, Ivor, but I wonder. According to the Official History the Germans were already entering Merville (NE of St Venant. Also, St Venant was the SW cormer of the British line, and the German line to the West could easily fire into the town from the North. Utter confusion, that's for sure.

John

[ivor43]

interesting john, a have not been looking at the west of St Venant. i know that some of the RWF were isolated in Robecq.that A and C cos failed to reach bridge 4, the most western of the 4 around Robecq. and that A and D cos were ambushed on the Robecq - Calonne Rd. ok there was still a corridor open to the NE to Haverskirque which appears to have been the direction of retreat. on 27th or 28th when the bridge was blown so they were not that close on that side. but once tanks had crossed the river on their captured bridge then they could have fired on the town from the north bank.
would you do me a favor. would you read the quote in my previous post an compare it with the entry in the war diary.Re Bn OC. i would be interested in your thoughts.

ivor

[Baconwallah]

Here is what I have, Ivor. Not the War Diary but a page from the Official History (Ellis L.F., The War in France and Flanders 1939-1940, HMSO 1953) and the relevant part of the accompanying map.

Re the CO, I think he made the best of a bad situation. Undergunned, undermanned, outgeneralled, what could the BEF do? Col Harrison had lost most of his battalion, could not even extricate the remnants of 2 DLI, and was in an extremely confused situation on the verge of going into the bag on the wrong side of a water barrier which was already being crossed by the enemy. In such a situation making a last stand is maybe good for the history books and the exhibit at the regimental museum, but for nothing else. Losing all one's trained troops will make winning the war, eventually, much harder. Anyway, if he was wrong he paid for it with his life.

John

Image2.jpgImage1.jpg

[ivor43]

john.
thank you very much for the map and the info. if we could over lay this map on to a regular map i believe the breach would be more or less where i have been speculating. and the article states that ' Armoured Columns ' passed through the gap to Merville and lestrem. these two places are to the Right once you cross the bridge. these are going to create Serious tracks.
thanks john i suddenly feel a twinge of confidence that my speculation may be closer than we thought.

ivor

[Verrieres]

hi john.i am glad it's of use but i am not sure of it's accuracy.it seems that we have all got some useful stuff out of this thread. but i think we have reached the limit of what we can do from the comfort of our armchairs.we will have to sit back and wait for your friend and others to come up with some answers. i dont think we can write a definitive account of this action but we my have cleared up some questions.
i suspect that farm boulet may have effectively ceased to exist at this time but we can hope that some locals may remember it's location.


ivor

Hi ,
First post here just like to confirm as far as it can be the information on that site is indeed acurate.Its actually my site.I have been in touch with Tony for a few years now I have been able to provide him with contact to RSM Goddards son,contact re M Faivre through his work searching for Pte Tom Rodgers,The War crimes files regarding the shooting of PoWs at St Venant which led to the case of Soldier Six and the witness M Victor Boulet,The existance of the autopsy reports used by M Faivre and the Rodgers family which were compiled on 6th June 1942,Copy of the original buriel locations via `The Search for Tom` what I cannot give him is the exact location he seeks thats where you have excelled giving him some excellent advice and contacts.The nearest I have been to actually pin pointing the HQ is actually from the ARMAN website which stated `The 2DLI battalion headquarters is located in a farm located at the intersection of the street Amuzoires. and the canal`...the situation is confused by references to other Hqs not Battalion but Company Hq`s in the 2 DLI War Diary it states`The fate of the Rifle Companys will become clear after the war when those who survived and were captured can tell their story`.Just to add it appears the Germans were on both sides of the canal as the War Diary refers to 2 DLI being ordered out of their HQ onto the Canal Bank where German Light Machine guns were able to shoot them up from the rear.Keep up the Good Work and thanks for helping Tony out this was his Dads quest and now its his.All the Best

Jim

[Baconwallah]

Welcome to the Forum research section, Verrieres.

If I understand you correctly, this (see map and photo) should be the former Ferme Boulet. Location would be very likely indeed.

John

40-36a - France crop annot.jpgPossibly Ferme Boulet.jpg

[ivor43]

hi.
First may i welcome you to the forum. in the course of this thread i have visited the D.L.I site a few times. i accept that the information is correct. it just differs from the R.W.F. in certain aspects, this is partly what i have been trying to reconcile. in one of my posts i said i had been floating over the area . this particular spot was one of 3 i identified as a possible crossing. however,using Google Earth i spent quite a bit of time searching the North bank of the Lys for possible signs of the movement of heavy equipment etc. the only place i could find it was the field directly opposite the Rue De Motte Baude.
oh dam.....
john do you recall my saying ''seems a lot further west than our road'' could it be that after the war somehow the road names got switched ? could it be that the rue Amuzoires was actual at the end of the village.
john do you know the translation of Amuzoires ?
the photo of the farm shows a fairly new building which would be expected. but maybe too new.
Verriers thank you for the info and i can assure you that we will do all we can to assist tony. hope to see you on here again.


ivor