saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

[jungle1810]

Hello all,
The panzer mark 3 Medium tank had the following details. Country of origin Germany crew 5 weight 22,300 kg (49,060 Lbs) dimensions length 6.41 metres (21 feet) width 2.95 metres (9ft 8ins) height 2.50 metres (8ft2 ins) range 175 Km (110 miles) Armour 30mm (1.8 ins) Aus M version one 75 mm ,L/24 gun, 7.92 machine gun. power plant one Maybach H L 120 TRM 12 cylinder petrol engine developing 300 horse power ( 224 kW)performance maximum road speed 40 km (25 mph) fording 0.8 M (2ft 8 ins) vertical obstacle 2.59 metres (8ft 6 ins)
Regards RBD aka jungle1810

[ivor43]

hi guys.
first, thanks brian for that info, very helpful.
now, i grew up on a hill farm in NE Wales. we had several fields around the farm which were never cultivated. they were only ever used as grazing for the cattle. also at certain times of the year wet/soggy areas would appear, if you drove a tractor through them it would leave deep ruts.
looking at the land in question i suspect that it may be grazing pasture and i also suspect that it may be wet in places. i have considered that they could have been grubbed out hedges. but i do'nt think the profile fits seems too wide. so i will stick with my tracks. if you drive 1 22 ton tank over soft ground it would leave a fairly deep set of tracks. but if you drive several dozen over the sameish piece of wet ground then some very deep and distinct marks will be left.if the land then is not cultivated i can see no reason why the marks would disappear. this piece of ground seems to have some odd features.
the light green patches could be standing water covered with algae. the green patches along side the ploughed field. as it goes northish it turns black the same color as the Lys. the sort of snake like marks near the top of the field could also be a track
of course this is pure speculation but if any of you even vaguely agree i will take it further.

ivor

[Baconwallah]

Thanks for the additional info, Ivor. Being an old city rat myself, I'll gladly take your word for it. Although even in wet ground I would expect the tracks to have disappeared after 72 years. I am also rather surprised at the fact that judging by the ruts all the crossing tanks seem to have followed exactly the same course. Once past the contested crossing of the canal barrier I would have expected them to fan out. It's what I would have told my squadron to do.

As battlefield archaeology this is fascinating, but will it bring us any closer to the identification of the Ferme Boulet, I wonder?

John

[ivor43]

john.

let me take your last point first.
i think it is crucial to locate the exact location of 2DLI. at the time. if they were positioned as i have suggested and the missing bridge was also here then farm boulet could well also be here. i will see if i can find the ref about the position coming under fire from both sides of the river.
if you look closely you will see some tracks amongst the trees to the left of the main northern track. so it is possible that some units went into the trees.the track to the right may be the units withdrawing into the woods later.
as a fan of 'Time Team' on a number of occasions very old features have been found by areal survey which are not clear from the ground.
i am wondering if it might be profitable to contact the local military history group to see what the local's think. but i will need teecee's ok on that

ivor

[Baconwallah]

Ivor, if we go on like this, we'll be able to write a detailed history of the defence of the Lys canal. Sounds good to me.

As for the local historians, my first question would be "Where was the Ferme Boulet?", leaving contested crossings for later. But Tony is re-establishing his contacts in the area, so perhaps we should give it some time.

John

[Dennis Goldsworthy farmer]

This is getting really interesting ....Im sure you will find where the farm was....

[Baconwallah]

Interesting it surely is, Dennis. One of my friends who lives in the area has now joined the search, and there's nothing like a man on the ground, with local knowledge and speaking the language.

I'm reasonably confident that we'll get to the bottom of this.

John

[ivor43]

good morning all.
at the moment i can not find the ref i was looking for, but i will. however the following link,
http://durhamlightinfantry.webs.com/france1940.htm
if you scroll down the entry for St Venant makes interesting reading. i suspect that they use St Venant for the whole area as we know from other accounts that they were detailed to hold St Flores.
from this account it will be seen that there was an intact bridge at this point,also that Bn HQ was also near a barn here.
it seems that some of 2DLI got over the bridge and i wonder if teecee's uncle was hit by machine gun fire while trying to get to the bridge.I assumed RSM Goddard would have been at HQ and this seems to have confirmed it.
now let me justify this thinking. first, this action occurred on 27th. according to RWF War Diary the ST Venant bridge was blown on 28th(poss 27th) therefore was not taken intact.
Second.the RWF Bn HQ's move to the Cemetery was it's 3rd move according to map 2 provided by jungle via bob. We must assume that 2DLI's Bn HQ was wiped out at the barn. to move to a position near RWF Bn HQ would seem to be a logical move.( er. well to me it would. )
finally. i feel that the sight of 2 German tanks smashing there way into a barn full of blazing hay bales for real.must have been one of the most terrifying moments imaginable.
on a personal level whatever the outcome of this thread it has given me a totally different outlook on what my father and all others of the B.E.F. went through.

Total Respect TO These Guys.

ivor

[Baconwallah]

A very interesting site, Ivor, thanks for discovering it. I wonder if they could provide more information on the barn and the bridge, as they are certainly well informed.

John

[ivor43]

hi john.i am glad it's of use but i am not sure of it's accuracy.it seems that we have all got some useful stuff out of this thread. but i think we have reached the limit of what we can do from the comfort of our armchairs.we will have to sit back and wait for your friend and others to come up with some answers. i dont think we can write a definitive account of this action but we my have cleared up some questions.
i suspect that farm boulet may have effectively ceased to exist at this time but we can hope that some locals may remember it's location.


ivor