Wearing of beret and hackles

[Gwyn Nicholas]

Sid, times change things move on it is true. However we are talking about a basic dress code and if you like, discipline. Where do you draw the line, centre forehead, over the ear, back of the head. Hackle upright, hackle "willowed", badge brass staybright or Blacked depending on your mood rather than operational requirement. The one thing that makes our Army stand out in the World is and always has been down to the fact that it is A. Totally Voluntary and B. It's Discipline is second to none.

The guys may very well spend most of their time in Helmets as you say, that is not a problem unless of course you say that because its is 2012 chinstraps can be done up or hanging as you feel most comfortable with. You said it yourself, REGIMENTAL HEADRESS those two words say it all. It is a representation of the Regiment and it is a form of dress. I may be archaic in my view but make no apology for it. If you look at the modern soldier on parade regardless of Regiment, I think you will see that the majority wear their headress proudly and correctly as was shown at Christmas with the troops in Afghanistan on parade.

I have to say that given your military experience and indeed your more recent Police Experience, that I am suprised that you give little creedence to basic discipline. The lack thereof being attributed to much of the problems that we have with the youth of today ie none in the home, teachers hands tied in the classroom and the leniency of the courts.

Of course we are talking about a beret being worn incorrectly here and it is not a train smash but where does it end. Standards - that is what it is about. If you crow that you are the best, then you parade and represent your Regiment at your very best. That is being a Royal Welchman.

[Baconwallah]

At the unveiling of the Truce Memorial on Armistice Day 2008 the detachments of 1 Royal Welsh (RWF) and the Marienberger Jaeger were both marched to the church. Among the spectators were a German General and a German Colonel. I heard the General remark to the Colonel that in his opinion the difference between national service soldiers and professional soldiers was painfully obvious (which it was).

So it's not all that bad yet.

John

[sid burns]

Brilliant Gwyn your now blaming the youth of today on how the army wears it's headress.

Basic discipline meant you got shot in WW1 but thankfully things have moved on.

Gwyn I know it broke your heart when puttee's were abolished but hey you got used to those long boots.

You in your original post blamed the Jnco's for allowing this but how many CO's, RSM's and CSM's the men who run the battalions do you know who wore their headress correctly.

Gwyn please don't put a long reply I've said my bit.

[John Turner]

I would often come off muster parades etc with my badge over my ear, because when the marker shouted EEEEEEYYYEEEEES ... FRAAAAHNNT, I'd snap my head round so fast my beret would stay still.

Sometimes, when doing an about turn at the halt, I could find my whole uniform was back to front.

[Gwyn Nicholas]

Get it right Sid, I broke my heart when they got rid of Gaiters polished Black, I found puttees too fiddly and time consuming. Amazing how you mange to put one paragraph with the other manage to link them and then miss the point entirely. The point is , basic discipline or dress allows a standard. If everyone has different idea or starting point you have no cohesion and no cooperation. Why would you not wear your headress correctly, is it any less comfortable, is it difficult to put the badge in the right position, does it make you feel "less cool". No, you wear it incorrectly if you are idle,or making some kind of statement.

I dont blame anyone in particular least of all J/NCO's, I blame the individuals responsible. It is however down to NCO's to put it right and if NCO's are guilty themselves, you have to ask why is the man wearing the rank with responsibilty behaving in such a way. I did say that it did happen during my service so I am not sniping at the modern/current soldier indeed it will continue to happen because there will always be a character who will not conform.

I think the tactics of the time rather than basic discipline was the biggest cause of being killed during the first World War but that it only an opinion. In relation to that though consider the ND (negligent discharge for non -military readers) an occurance greatly reduced by a disciplined approach and standard of weapon handling. It sadly still happens, but what would it be like if we all did it our own way. Perhaps basic foot drill is a waste of time, as i heard many times when I was in and is probably still bantered about. I never knew many people who liked it but we all know how important it is to get guys working together as a team. Perhaps the standards of hygene are unimportant, so what if a soldier wants to be a grotty git as long as he can shoot the helmet of a figure 11 target at 500m

There are many examples of Standards as well you know so I wont go on. You did ask me to be brief after all. (of course you knew i wouldn't be). OK it is a beret and the wearing of and not life threatening but it is a standard and you have not bothered yet to explain why you think it doesn't really matter whether it is adhered to or not. Do you think it doesn't really matter, are you being different from the crowd. Come off the fence and tell us why you have your opinion. (be as brief or as longwinded as you wish, I would never impose a line restriction on anyone) Right or wrong I've given my reasoning.

[sid burns]

Gwyn what you need to do now is move on! the wearing of the headress with the cap badge a little over to the left is really a personal choice, this does not mean the soldier or officer has no personal discipline nor that they are trying too buck the system.

This sounds like that it's really upset you, so I think you should attend London speak with the queen and ask her politely if she would amend her regulations to allow the wearing of the beret in this fashion.


With the cuts that the government are making the last thing on a soldiers mind is oh dear my cap badge is an inch out of place.

I believe it was Bob Dylan who said "the times they are a changing"

I'm now bored with this so it's off to work!!

Gwyn I'm begging you Please keep it short other members want to use this forum!!

[Gwyn Nicholas]

Sid, very little upsets or suprises me mate. I merely gave an opinion to a members post that had a question in it. Once again your response is a hollow one. Why should I " move on" from what I believe to be valid view (and one that i have taken some time to explain), because a Police Sgt who will no doubt (or hopefully) ensure that his constables comply with their orders state of dress etc whilst on his shift, tells me to....I dont think so. Why bring her Majesty into it even tongue in cheek..very shallow. Could you not think of someone else other than an anti establishment, anti war, anti work over-rated (in my view) country singer to make some sort of point other than being Anti is "cool". I think the die is cast here Sid, you have played the wind-up card but oh too obviously and convinced no-one I fear. It is refreshing however to see you getting involved, perhaps Scouse may be convinced to come back on with a blog, I do so miss those bloggs especially where your adventures are concerned. Keep the thin Blue Line firm mate.