The AV Referendum - How Will You Vote?

[Gwyn Nicholas]

[QUOTE=Keith Jones 989;55658]THIS IS AN ENTIRELY PERSONAL VIEW AND IS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY ROLE AS A MODERATOR ON THIS FORUM


In response to Hingey's query I have to say that the country's political system has been destroyed through lethargy by the electorate and the system of party politics we employ.

Your words Keith and whilst I dont totally agree with your amended post, I can now see where you are coming from.

[Paul Hinge]

Don, And your version is fair.....my God then we would have a full blown dictatorship!!

My question to you is this as a person whose MP and AM both got in last time with less than 50% of the votes cast. Do you see that as a fair system? Because by all the differences people may have I cannot subscribe to anyone representing me when they have only attracted less than 50% of the vote that's why AV....although not perfect, does offer a value to everyones vote. People have died to ensure we all could vote and have a country that we can express our views. This is why we now have in the 21 st century a version of the "rotten boroughs" system of Labour and Tory safe seats that cannot be prized from them under the archane system we operate now. Oh! by the way we here in Wales already operate an AV version for the list candidates for ther National Assembly elections so its nothing new to us we've used it since 1999. Finally when I beat the Plaid candidate in 2008 on a 64% turnout I attracted 53% of the vote at the first count so I feel vindicated that my election was a fair reflextion on the choice made by the people who voted.

Hingey

[jungle1810]

Hingey,
My conclusion on a new voting system in my last political thread was purely tongue in cheek. One of the main considerations of the AV system is that some one who is in second or even third place after the first returns are counted is quite liable to win the seat because of the movement of other peoples second or third choice of candidate, I did at one time think of only voting for one candidate but that will be circumvented by the use of replacing my vote with other peoples choice of second and third candidates Just how many times does a candidate want the votes counted? My other point I tried to make is that we have far too many politicians ruling the country, in relation to the size of the UK. In my thread I did not mention one man one vote, or the fact of devolution in Wales Scotland,and Ireland, vastly increases the number of politicians in the UK. Another bone of contention is how many times have we been promised a referendum on the European issue, and I reckon as a matter of top priority that the ECHR needs a clean sweep. Let us have a declaration of British rights which we have been promised for many moons, and we can then control our own destiny. Apart from all the devolved nations I mentioned, it is a proven fact that 80% of all legislation in the UK stems from Europe. And the European Commission has not had it's accounts passed since it's inception. Can you or I run a business in a like manner. The answer to that one is a resounding NO. The only legislation the House of Commons can pass is on the Armed Forces and our budget (or what is left of it) after giving aid to China Pakistan et al. Let us remember an old adage," CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME" I also think that compulsory voting is a non runner, how easy is it to misuse the ballot paper and deliberately spoil your vote? In passing I must thank you for your views and having served in local politics presumably with the vigour and dedication you apply to other issues. I now appreciate your sincerity on political matters because of my deep suspicions of Politicians and all things political.
Regards as ever Brian aka RBD &jungle1810

[Dai 55]

MPs who can trust theme?
Thats why people in Britain are p----d off,bunch of con men/women who dont care about joe public only there own pocket,expenses my ****,light bulbs,dishwashers,morgages,hair perms,taxis,DUCK HOUSE,(what a joke that was)affairs,it goes on and on,when are we going to see something positive for the country,David Cameron WHAT A COMPLET JOKE,Taxes sky high,wages so low,petrol gone through the roof,pensioners just about surviving,NHS working on the bread line,if only i would have known before you came into power,and Nick Glegg well say no more?

Dai 55

[Gwyn Nicholas]

Dai, I think we all share your anger and frustration at the situation that we are in, but this lot didn't get us where we are right now. It is too soon to say whether what they are doing will solve the problem or make it worse. We cannot know for sure whether the last lot would have done the same with a slightly different format. Either way something had to be done because we were heading toward a meltdown.

Face it, as a country we have overspent, enjoyed the good life, lived on tick (credit cards) for the last ten years or more. Basically as a nation we have lived well above our means. We have done this as a nation despite a number of well respected financial experts warning government in the last five or six years that it was not sustainable. It was in newspapers for all to see, did we all take notice and curb our spending reduce our credit cards - no. I believe the average national household debt (not including mortgages) in 2009 was £9,600. Obviously that is an average not each and every household. Who's fault is it, that people run up such debt, the banks, the government, at what point do individuals take responsibility for their own actions instead of looking for someone else to blame.

I dont remember Cameron or anyone else saying they had a magic wand to make it alright overnight, if he could have we wouldn't really have had that much of a problem to begin with. I am not happy with the situation we have right now and I am angry particularly at the cuts in our Forces but I dont blame the people who have been in power for 5 minutes and forget the the miscreants who went before them - that would be unjust. I reserve my judment until this lot have been in power for a couple years and at least been given a chance. The fact is, if they are worse than the last lot...we really are in a fix!

[Gerrycc943]

Hi members,

Great dialogue throughout the thread but let's not digress from Bob's original question at the start of the thread: "How will you vote?"

For info, 62 members have read this thread but only 36 have completed the poll!!

[Gwyn Nicholas]

Gerry, I for one found the dialogue interesting and informative and have indeed actualy worked out how the AV system works. The question raised by Bob was under discussions and that is what I feel we have had with due respect and without hostility. Without this sort of discussion from those who are willing to participate and make a contribution, the post could have been summed up with 36 dots. No disrespect Gerry but some people are trying to make something of anything on the Forum if it is boring or uninteresting to some then they need not read it. I dont agree with all I read and I know for sure people disagree with me but I find others views on subjects interesting, sometimes educational and even on occasion quite bizzare. That is why I am a regular reader and long may it continue.

[Thom15]

I'm one of the 62 that has read this thread with great interest but have not voted because .... living in Canada I would have no idea who to vote for and until I read this thread I did not know about The AV Referendum. So at least I have been educated a little on what's happening in the UK. By the way, is the Monster Raving Loony Party still going? Lord Sutch can have my vote any day, ... although he's dead now so it would not do him much good.
Dilwyn

[Bob Bacon]

This debate has already generated some very interesting comments and views, which was my intention ... to rouse members to activity and forum participation.

When you look at the reasons for having this referendum you have to say it is one of the most unusual referendums in the whole history of referendums.

For this change in the voting system for UK elections from First Past the Post (FPTP) to AV is something that neither party in the Coalition government actually wants.

The Tories don’t want any change at all and are actively campaigning for a No vote. While the LibDems really want to change our electoral system to Proportional Representation (PR). Their preferred system is the Single Transferable Vote (STV).

Yet the LibDems have ended up campaigning for a system that is not PR in any way whatsoever. All to get into coalition with the Tories. You couldn’t make it up!

Anyway, thanks to those that have shared their views .... The Poll closes on Monday so there is still time to post your own views on this matter.

[jungle1810]

Hello All,
As a point of interest The Labour Government some years ago required Roy Jenkins to review the FPTP and the AV system of voting. His final verdict was that the FPTP was as good as any thing and did not think the AV system any good at all. So not much has changed over the years.The present UK voting system is quite difficult to improve on. I have enjoyed the intelligent views of the forum members input and they have raised many points ( Hingey Included) I still think we are well over burdened with politicians.
Regards as ever RBD aka jungle1810