Generals told to travel 2nd class

**jcj** · 28-03-2010, 17:55

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7078834.ece

All armed forces personnel must now sit in standard class on trains and planes, whatever their rank, under a new rule that has provoked anger across the political parties.

But MPs are still entitled to first-class train travel, and there is no plan to restrict first-class travel for government ministers.

**Braz** · 28-03-2010, 18:27

It's a damn cheek when you think that these Generals etc are not allowed to travel 1st class yet MPs who cream off every penny under the sun can. Something definately wrong somewhere. Damn cheek of it. Braz

**LarsA** · 28-03-2010, 19:24

In the article a junior defence minister said something like "it's about getting value for money".

A good way to think for the taxpayer come next election aswell:-)

/Lars

**Gwyn Nicholas** · 28-03-2010, 19:32

I dont think any of them should travel First Class at public expense. If they want to upgrade, fair enough but they, should pay the difference. The days of the "Raj" are long gone and there is no need for this sort of class segregation for MPs and Officers of any Rank. (at public expense) They are ALL public servants. They work for the people of this country and are salary paid by the people of this country. They are not better (in any shape or form) than the people of this country, and it is not before time that he rug is well and truly pulled from under this elitist regime.

**LarsA** · 28-03-2010, 21:57

If they are out doing duty for the country, they should be able to travel in a way to make the most out of time spent on the way to their object for the day. They are out to do work in the interest of the realm, and should be able to travel and work at the same time.

Of course, Animal Farm egalitarian principles could be applied. But that would be to the detriment of the services. A good lesson on how to get a great deal of less value for marginally less money involved.

ATB,
Lars

**Keith Jones 989** · 28-03-2010, 22:39

Major General Peter de la Billiere, when he was GOC South East District, banned anybody from his district headquarters travelling First Class on the trains, as a cost saving, after NMS was introduced. He was, therefore, way ahead of his time!

**Gwyn Nicholas** · 28-03-2010, 22:39

People from all walks of life travel daily and indeed work whilst travelling whether first or second class. To suggest that an MP or a General needs or deserves a better quality of seat or surroundings is exactly the elitist snobbery that I am talking about. How much work do you think a General (not his Aide) or an MP actually does on route to a jolly in the Capital. Indeed, maybe the sort of work to which you refer - "for the Realm" should not be done in a public place (1st or 2nd Class). That is perhaps how briefcases containing sensitive papers, have in recent times, been left in taxis or on trains etc. I cannot comment on your reference to "Animal farm" as, although I have heard of the film, I have not actually seen it! (TIC) You may not be aware Lars but in this country, we are suffering a recession and cuts are being made everywhere. Why do you think that money regardless how little, should continue to be wasted whilst our services ie our Armed Forces, National Health, Police etc continue to face cuts? Your lot may have it right in Sweden but here we do not. Claims for DUCK houses springs to mind.

Paul Hinge · 28-03-2010, 22:39

Two very interesting posts fro Gwyn and Lars.

Given the abominable way some politicians in Westminster have manufactured a fees office to suit their needs I wholly concur with Gwyn on this score.
However, there is a caveat to this as Lars so correctly points out. If you are travelling to where ever on business that is the concern of the Country and need to work as you travel then there maybe a case for an upgrade at public expense for Generals and MP's alike, bit this should not be the norm.

As an elected representative I have a very strict regime on expense claims that is not only scrutinised by the public monthly, but by the Audit Office on behalf of the Public. This however, is not the case for MP's, Lords, Ministers of Government, Assembly Members in Wales, Members of the Scottish Parliament or the Northern Ireland Assembly.
Is there something wrong here? Double standards or what?
Let's not tar them all with the same brush but if we have to account for everything on a very strict table of allowable expenses.

Hingey

**Gwyn Nicholas** · 29-03-2010, 13:02

Paul, as you say you are an "elected representitive" as are MPs. You are not head-hunted nor pleaded with to do it. In lay terms, you applied for a job and got it, no more, no less (Civil servants as a whole not you personally). If you take away all the perks (not legitimate expenses) do you think there will be less :
a. Applicants for MPs and Council seats.
b. Lesser inteligent/qualified people canvassing for votes.

I think not but if I am wrong, then the people who do the job now are not in the job for the right reasons and we would be well rid. The greedy may very well leave, but the majority I feel, take the perks just because they happen to be there.

As far as Generals are concerned, how many Brigadiers/Colonels do you think, would turn down a promotion to General just because First Class travel is no longer available.

We keep hearing about cuts, well let us see those who are already well rewarded and are at the higher echelons, lead the way. The poor of this country are getting poorer and the well off turn a blind eye and take more and more. I want a fairer deal for all in this country and not the elitist few and if that means starting with Generals..so be it!

Paul Hinge · 29-03-2010, 21:48

Gwyn I think you've got the wrong end of the stick mate. I'm agreeing with you that if they travel they should do it by the cheapest possible means.

However, they can pay to upgrade if they so wish. My only question was that if they needed to work on a train or plane for a long journey that was on behalf of our country then perhaps an upgrade at public expense might be justified but that’s the exception not the rule!

On my own business if I travel to London I go 1st Class from Birmingham because I can work on my laptop undisturbed by people talking on mobiles, listening to IPods that everyone else can hear and sitting in seats that were made for Twiggy and not people of my rotund proportions.

Hingey