Joining the Euro

[Gwyn Nicholas]

Noticed this morning that the pound is down to 1 euro 10 cents on the exchanges. How long do you think it will be before it is announced that Britain will be left behind if we dont join and are we near to the figure already agreed for them to let us in? Cynical, me? Well maybe a little.

[Paul Hinge]

Interesting post Gwyn....didn't have you down as pro-euro (ha ha).
Those in the know would say that this rate is not the best for us we need to go in when 1 euro is worh about 78p. That would give us the best advantage.
With it fluctuating between 87 and 89p we would be shooting ourselves in the foot if anyone decided that now was the time to go in.

Hingey:winker:

[sixties]

Well said Paul, just a blimp.

[griff029]

greetings,

I am staggered that there is any discussion of when we go in and what is best financially. There should be no question of us going in at all. We would lose any independence and hand over all powers to Brussels if we no longer have control over fiscal matters. Look at how the Irish were stitched up by their own traitorous leaders. They had a referendum and because it didn't go the way the leaders wanted, they had another. What kind of referendum is that??? Mind you at least they got one which is more than we did when the socialist liars in Downing street promised us one. You mean they didn't mean it?? Surely not.
For those who advocate joining the Euro, I would say the best time is when the Euro is equal to 30 pieces of silver.

griff029

[Gwyn Nicholas]

Griff I dont know why you are "staggered" that a discussion should take place about something that is current affairs and has a distinct possibility of actually taking place. Like it or loathe it, we are a small island (surrounded by the Euro zone) and our days of being the best ship builders, car makers and exporters of Steel are well and truly over. Accepting the possibility does not make anyone less patriotic or less proud of being British. Personally I have always been against the european union simply because I feel that the rest of them do not play by "their" rules whilst this country does and because of that some countries (especially France) actually openly mock us for being so gullible. As you say at least the Irish got a vote. Our so-called Democracy does not even allow for that! When it comes, and it will come ,we will have nothing to do but accept and get on with it.

[Paul Hinge]

Gwyn, I have to nail my colurs to the mast! I'm pro-Europe and for very good reasons. However, I do have some very real reservations about the size it has grown too now.
As I know you are aware, the whole rationale for the EEC was to create economic cooperation between counties that have been constantly at war with each other for centuries. This level of cooperation between countries was fine when there were 6 then 9 then 12 nationstates involved. The cracks realy started to appear when it went to 15. The European Comission (the un-elected civil service headed up by political commissioners appointed by member-states had/has grown to big for its boots. There were also many problems with the monitoring and auditing of accounts both within the EEC?EU and with member states. Now we have seen a huge increase in the size of the EU 29 member states and a multitude of derogations (allowing a nation state not to do something the others have agreed to do) we have now got a multi tier and a a multi-speed Europe that I feel as do many others is to big a beast to control. The primary driver for the creation was security through economic cooperation and I like those who have expressed their opinion feel that it's lost the plot!
Where do we go from here?
The UK economy is so linked into the EU it would be financial suicide to get out now (60% approx) of our business is with our European partners. We are stuggling to compete at the moment with our EU partners as the Euro is a much stronger currency than the £. Therefore, we are losing out on competitiveness and on the exchange rate.
So I leave it up to you to decided. For me security is fundemental to peace and that's why I'm pro-european.

Hingey

[jungle1810]

Hello Hingey et al,
Re joining the euro (that is eu union not the currency). I take Pauls point about the size of the European market. At present it is well nigh impossible to seperate Europe from Asia if you consider who is in the market at present and those waiting in the wings to join the so called "Gravy Train"Turkey etc. And most of the people running Europe are un-elected and combine this with the chance of Tony Blair becoming the new Preident.Plus the fact that America has a population of some 300, million people and yet America has less people running it than the UK. In the UK we have some 647 Members of Parliament, the House of Lords has about another 600 or so.I do not know the number of un-elected members that are in Strasbourg and else where who are running the Market. If you also take into account that 85%of our legislation is mandatory and emanates from Europe why do we need the present profligate system? Another point to take on board is metrication, we have a situation that is putting some 64 pence a litre on petrol duty ( 4.5 Litres to a Gallon) That is equivalent to £2-85 tax on a gallon of petrol and that is topped by having to pay VAT on your total charge. the Chancellor rakes in £1.3 million pound a day on all fuel duty. Who is watching the watchers. And last but not least the Lisbon Treaty was supposed to be different from all previous diktats but in truth is loaded on the side of the pro Europeans, The Lisbon treaty has been rejected by 3 nations France Holland and Ireland, that should have been the death knell for it Yet more referendas were given until the European Mandarins had the result they wanted. Why are the United Kingdom being denied the referendum promised by the Labour Government. Just what exactly does the world of politics not understand about the word NO. In conclusion the European Market was kept running even after failing to have it's accounts passed for some 10 years or more, What chance would any other business stand of gettind away with this sort of mal-practice.
Regards RBD

[griff029]

greetings all. regarding my use of the word staggered. Not really staggered as in surprised, more staggered as in a feeling of inevitability about the whole thing. The Common Market was a good idea. If any country should know the benefits of trading partners it is this one. It has, however, got completely out of hand as already pointed out. One problem is that there are too many people who can't remember the pre EU world. They just assume that it has always been there and is a fact of life. The idea of countries just not being in it doesn't occur to anyone. A referendum would be pointless anyway. The question phrasing would be such that both options would actually mean yes.
Surely the very fact that the Irish leaders totally refused to accept the decision of their own people on the instructions of Brussels should put people off to the extent that each successive referenda would even more NOs than before. Not long before national leaders are no longer elected but are employees of Brussels.
Cameron has also promised a referendum but there seems to be a problem with getting out of the Lisbon Treaty once it has been ratified. Why on earth would anyone want to be a part of an organisation that so blatantly removes national freedom?
If our opinions count for nought and our freedom is removed then what? I hate to say this but I am beginning to understand why the IRA used violence when they couldn't get anywhere. They obviously felt like me - banging my head against a brick wall.

[Paul Hinge]

Annwyl Gyfeillion/Dear All

There was one very, very important point I forgot to mention when it comes to devolving soverignty to the EU......that its our politicians in Westminster who have the power of VETO. If one member state says NO on matters that are of national importance i.e. Areas of competence that have not been ceeded such as Security,Taxation (income Tax)etc, then the proposal, including the Lisbon Treaty collapses.

THE EURO

I and many other pro-europeans would point out that with the Euro yesterday versus the £'s exchange rate of 92.5p it is not acceptable to the UK to enter this currency at present;it needs to be between 75-78p for us to have any benefit from entering.
We lost out on a gilt edge chance of entering 4-5 years ago when the rates were stable and favourable.

But let's remember.

The UK is still in recession the Euro Zone members are already out of it and growing!

Cofion cynnes

Hingey

[Gwyn Nicholas]

Very interesting and educating points gents, thankyou. I have to say Hingy that I agree that trade with equal partners is healthy and was an idea that in general, worked. However as I pointed out some countries followed the rules, ( for example fishing/milk quotas) and others didn't. Rebates appeared to be given to other member countries whist the UK had to fight for them. Why? You say that you a Pro-European, yet you are worried about the way it is growing with smaller/new European countries joining. How can you be Pro something that you are not happy with? The power of VETO. Seriously, how effective do you think that will be? As has been pointed out countries said NO to the Lisbon treaty, therefore it should be it a NO. Is it a NO? NO it is a vote again until they all say YES! Is that Democracy? For me it is more Tyranny and that is what worries me. The Warsaw Pact was a confederation of countries. Did they all share equal wealth and opportunities?