384 anti tank regt RWF

[dutchman]

amazing thanks for sharing that with us i was enthralled form your first post

[Gerrycc943]

An amazing thread and all credit to those who have taken the time to research.

Be very interested in the outcome.

Gerry943

[dicky]

I have now had another e.mail form a man with a world of knowledge and it seems that this can run and run.
I may have to get in touch with the regiment museum and see if they can tell me anything about him pre greece but after the post I laid on here today regarding the massacre in the village I have know been sent this info.
Now this is from someone who really seems to be on the ball and has shown me that force 133 was also in Rhodes so he may well have been there.
this is very intresting.



Re being ‘right’ about the island, it’s just an observation on probability based on various conclusions I have arrived at over time. As you appear to be very low on specifics, probabilities and possibilities are valid. For example, if someone asked me to guess the Aegean island where three men landed by sub to train locals as Partisans, I’d probably guess Crete? However, I wouldn’t put my mortgage on it as there were hundreds of landings all over various islands by Army and Navy (including utilisation of what may be termed ‘Private Armies’), SOE and various MI organisations. Though they preferred to ‘do their own thing’, of necessity (and sometimes on direct order) they would help each other out – and then claim any success was really down to them.

At the top of the scale you had Churchill driving the whole Aegean enterprise, principally supported by Cunningham (C in C Med), and Jumbo Wilson, C in C Middle East. Thwarting him at almost every step of the way were the Americans. Churchill never abandoned his ideas and if he couldn’t do what he wanted, then he did what he could. i.e. If he couldn’t have (primarily) the landing craft for an invasion, he’d use and sanction as many ploys as he could which didn’t entail American involvement.

Rhodes was an early prime target. The largest island of the Dodecanese with airstrip and good strategic position for operations in that area. The island had been more or less Italian before WWI and had around 36’000 Italians garrisoned there, and 6’000 Germans. There was a large Italian community and the Italian CO was also the island’s governor – more a governor than a soldier. Reports state it was a peaceful and relatively happy existence. Rhodes was to be seized by Layforce, which was a mostly a Commando force sent from Britain early ’41. After the German invasion of Greece/Yugoslavia, this operation was called off. After the Italian Armistice in autumn ’43, there was a splendid opportunity to take the Aegean islands with existing Italian forces as co-belligerents. It could have been, but wasn’t. Some islands were held/taken by the British/Italians, most acquired by the Germans, including Rhodes.

If, the Greeks you refer to were ‘killed’ by the Germans, it is logically most likely to have been in the latter years. Then, if operatives were training-up locals, typically it would be to act in unison with an invasion force. A handful of Partisans are not going to take on the German Army alone on a small island with nowhere to withdraw to. Churchill continued to support plans to invade Rhodes, ACCOLADE, but none ever took place. Rhodes eventually surrendered May ’45 to Force 281 when the war ended. Is it feasible that in lieu of hopes of invasion, a few men would have been landed to prepare locals? Yes of course it is. But in context of what was going on and planed with all the other islands, this is nothing extraordinary or remarkable.

Re the ‘massacre’, while I can find references to some – in texts, not the web – none mention anything on Rhodes. Then again, if the ‘massacre’ was actually one or two people shot and a house burnt, that’s nothing special I’m afraid.

Re the PRO, HERCULES, (the latter war plan), is just a guess on my part.

To search for available files, go to www.nationalarchives.g...earch.asp? and enter Hercules in the ‘Word or phrase’ box, and 1940 and 1945 in the ‘Year range’ boxes. Not all the Catalogue references it throws-up will be relevant, but I would guess those in the sections I sited earlier may be? Click-on the number at the end for a further breakdown of contents, then the ‘I’ symbols for more. If you go down to Kew and pull a file, you will find it’s probably a jumble of documents up to 6 inches thick.

If, you want to dive straight in with a SOE on Rhodes theory, try file HS 5/715 – “Dodecanese islands; Rhodes; CLARION, ERRATIC, RODEL, SYMPTON; voyage, landing and operational reports – 1943/1945”

And HS 5/585 – “Operations in Greece and Aegean: instructions and directives; Force 133 mission in Rhodes; relief supplies to Dodecanese islands; subversion of Polish troops in Cos and Leros; enemy situation in Aegean 1945; Force 142 operation at Kimolos; Force 281 plan for occupation of Dodecanese; attacks on Kallimache airfield; Force 292 plan to secure Leros – 1943/1945” ?

[rob jones 60]

Amazing story ..........

[dicky]

thank you rob jones but it took another weird twist last night when a chap got in touch with me and told me that he has the book Prisoners of War British Army 1938 - 45.
And in it my grandad is listed as being in camp teschen 8B.
Which according to the gent is why his pow number is so low yet on the tag its says camp XX1B.
I am starting to chase my tail with this one now but I am not giving up.

I have also now found some pictures of my grandad in uniform and one that we think may well be him with what looks like
possibly the group that are supposed to be in the Rhodes piccy, I am awaiting me uncle to confirm if it is the picture from The bar in Rhodes.
I dont think it is myself but they are a right mixed bunch.
I have just now got to work out how to scan them and put them on here for you all to look at along with the service pay book.

[dicky]

I am sorry can any one tell me how you do it.
i have the photos in my pictures on my PC but who the heck do you get them on to
the web page.
i have tried to cut and paste but nothing happens.

[ap1]

Go to the Photo Gallery. Click on the upload button. You then load them directly from your C Drive. Once they have been uploaded. You will not see them until they have been authorised by a Forum Moderator. This will normally happen the same evening.

[dicky]

thanks ap1 is that the best place and the way to put the pay book on show to the site aswell. sorry to keep asking but I am a novice at this sort of stuff :)

[ap1]

No problem David.

Post the paybook on the photo gallery, it give members a chance to have a look at the items. and express an opinion if required.

I have to say the cap badge on two of the pics looks very Non RWF/RA. Possibly a later unit?

Have you applied for his service record yet?

[dicky]

I am in the process of doing that but have been trying to make sure I have not over looked any other info.
I was abit worried about the badges myself but I know 100% that the photo taken without the cap on is him.
His Daughter found the photo in a sketch book that his Brother in law had used to do family sketchs while serving with the Heavy Mobile RAF unit in Italy.
The other two she thinks are him but as they came out of the same sketch book it could be his younger brother yet no sketch was done of either these two photos.