saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

Howdy everyone, this is my first visit and I am hoping that it may prove fruitful. My uncle, Private Anthony Corkhill of the 2nd Btn Durham Light Infantry is buried in an unmarked grave in St Venant, France, having been killed around the 27th May 1940. He was Batman to RSM A.Goddard who last saw him alive on that day. Following fierce overnight fighting, Pte Corkhill was lying, wounded in both legs near the canal as the Germans were rounding up the British who had incurred heavy losses. Although not seriously wounded and fully conscious, Anthony was unable to walk and was unarmed.

The Germans said there was a field ambulance operating nearby and promised to take him to hospital. After the war it transpired that there were no records of Anthony ever being taken to any hospital and no records of him being held in a P O W camp. It would appear that he had been killed by the SS who were patrolling the area at the time.

Amongst the 250 pages of the St Venant War Crimes record there is reference to a British soldier, wounded in both legs, being shot in the head by an SS soldier. The time and location of this shooting was around 12 noon on the 27th May at 'Farm Boulet, St Venant'. I understand that the HQ for the DLI was in a barn situated on an un-named farm. Finding out the whereabouts of Farm Boulet is vital to my enquiries and a major hurdle to overcome before I put all the pieces of the jigsaw together.

I am asking this forum because I believe the RWF had their HQ quite near to the DLI and it may just be possible that someone may have knowledge of the exact location of Farm Boulet. The Boulet family appear to have been well known in St Venant and identifying where they had their farm should not be a major issue. However, the opposite is proving to be the case and I am still no further forward despite having contacted a variety of information sites.

Needless to say, I would be extremely pleased to hear anything that might point me in the right direction. You are very welcome to contact me by email via the editor of this forum. Thank you. TC

In similar circumstances I have always found it productive to write to the Mayor and ask him for help. Have you done that? There is even a form in the internet (http://www.saint-venant.fr/index.php...id=5&Itemid=91). I have some experience with French Mayors and generally find them helpful.

John

Good luck in your quest ....but just a thought have you tried Google earth.... that way you can walk up the streets of St Venant........

Thanks Dennis, your google earth suggestion was indeed a good idea but I'm sure the farm is no longer there. It's probably a takeaway or a bingo hall now!

Thanks again, TC

Baconwallah, thanks John, I've had someone on my behalf email the Deputy Mayor almost two weeks ago. Up to now, no reply, but you never know. I did, about three months ago, email the St Venant Tourist Office but no reply from them. I will try that internet form that you speak of.

Many thanks to you and Dennis for posting quick replies.

This is an entry from 1RWF Records for the 27th May(although the diarist notes it could have been the 26th). It may not assist, but it does give 2DLI's task:

"On the following day, A and C Coys started to move down the road from ST VENANT towards the AIRE Canal. A farmhouse just N of the canal was occupied by the enemy. While A Coy took up a covering position, "C" attempted to clear the farmhouse. At this point enemy opened fire from along the canal bank. Both companies suffered casualties 2Lt S Rillington of C Coy was wounded. Capt Parker-Jervis now decided to withdraw C Coy. The first party under 2Lt Bothy-Jones withdrew in the direction of HAVERSKERQUE as MT guard

HQ Coy meantime, who were still at ST VENANT(cemetery) tried to withdraw under Capt Clough Taylor towards HAVERSKERQUE.
In the course of the withdrawal the coy was suffered heavy casualties from mortar fire and Capt Clough Taylor was killed.

BN HQ, what remained of D Coy, the rest of A and C Coys under Capt ROF Pritchard, were still in the ST VENANT area.

2DLI had meantime been holding the rd ST VENANT-COLOUNNE. A and C Coys were ordered to take up positions on DLI left flank."

I have an e mail addresss for Dominique Faivre who is the Chairman of the St Vennant Historical Research Society. He is very knowledgeable about the St Vennant Battle and will certainly be able to help you with finding the location of the Farm Boulet and the BOulet Family. Try dominique-faivre@wanadoo.fr

Dominique can read English well but does have difficulty writing in English but I know he will do all he can to help. If you need any translation let me know. I will forward him a copy of your initial thread for information.

Robert

Bob, many thanks for taking the time to reply. Last year I was in touch with Dominique Faivre but I was enquiring about my uncle's disappearance in the broadest sense not just the mystery of Farm Boulet When he replied to me he indicated that he would be extremely busy this year with a major project. I intend to get back in touch with him at a later date, possibly soon after I find the location of the farm. Thanks again, I really appreciate your interest and your invitation to help with any translation. Regards, Tony

ap1, many thanks for a swift and comprehensive reply. I expect to reply more fully after I have looked at the map references a few times. Thanks again, Tony.

Further to that on the 28th(Possibly the 27th):

0600 - Bn HQ Suffered a direct hit from arty fire. No further contact was made with Bn HQ. The following officers were reported missing as a result of this action. - Commanding Officer(Lt-Col Harrison) 2i/c (Maj D I Owens), Adjutant(Capt Hood), IO(Capt Willes), MO, Padre and RSM(Mr Sheriff).

The following officers are known to have been taken prisoner- 2i/c, Padre, IO, RSM

0700- DLI decided to withdraw. Enemy tanks overran the position as soon as it had been vacated. Bridge at ST VENANT, which had been mined, was blown. Troops of A and D Coys had to swim the canal. Tanks firing along the canal bank inflicted about 30% casualties on these troops as they made for the near bank. Those who got across made their way to HAVERSKERQUE and contacted the R.W Kents, who were to relieve the BN. Bde Comdr now decided to make for LA MOTTE, beyond FORET DE NIEPPE. Just south of FORET and to the E of the road, automatic fire from enemy tanks inflicted a further 20% casualties. At this stage a Coy of the Manchester Regt who were in support had only one MG left in action. From LA MOTTE, Bde group moved to VERTE RUE, where it lay up for the night.

would this be of use you will need to scroll to he 4th entry
http://www.rwfmuseum.org.uk/nb.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vori101

would this be of use you will need to scroll to he 4th entry
http://www.rwfmuseum.org.uk/nb.html

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vori101,

Thank you so much for a most informative document. I like to read and re-read everything so that it sinks in better. I am very pleased with the response I have had from members of this forum. Reading that report has brought my uncle's war involvement into a much more concentrated area. I am now thoroughly convinced that it largely took place on a triangle from St Floris----St Venant---Canal.

I expect to contact you again when I have news of the Farm Boulet location. Thanks again, Tony.

digging around i found this link.it refers to a group called The French Military History and Archeology Research Association maybe they might be able to assist.
.http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/l...hero-1-1003057

good luck

vori.

i'll keep looking

vori, thanks again. I'll give it a go.

Tony

You could also try a French WWII Forum

at http://www.39-45.org/index.php
or another one at http://deuxiemeguerremondia.forumactif.com/
or yet another one at http://www.passion-histoire.net/n/ww...forum.php?f=49

John

hi again

too hot to sleep here in Malta so done some more diggin and found this. dont know if you already been here

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...&GRid=17068575

vori

vori, thanks once again for taking the time to help with my search. I'll give this one a go too. The more irons in the fire the better. Tony

John, I've registered with two of these but after quite some time, I am unable to find a space to submit a new thread. I'll go on trying all night, there must be a way to do it. The third one keeps rejecting my attempts to log in, saying that my account has been de-activated. I'll try that one again too. Thanks, Tony

John, I have managed to get a thread on the passion-histoire site after a monumental struggle. After half an hour, suddenly a space appeared into which I uploaded my post. The 39-45 site makes Mastermind look like a game of I-Spy. I've spent a good half an hour on it but did not find anywhere to post a query. Even the 'technical help' has not got any means of contacting the helper. Nevertheless, I'll have another try later. Thanks, Tony

hi all.
just found this.

http://www.webmatters.net/txtpat/index.php?id=288

may be of interest.

there is a reason for my interest in this. My father was BEF, at the age of 21 he was R.C.S. apparently working from a M/C sidecar. he was attached to the 59th medium R.A. (west Lancs )rgt. so i hope that i might come across some ref to his unit. well you never know.

vori

Tony, I noticed that one Alain referred you to the "letters to the Mayor" form on the St Venant site mentioned in my earlier post. Not much help, but it's early days yet. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.

A friend of mine, with whom I worked in General Practice in Scotland in the early seventies, is also from Newcastle. One of his uncles served with 1/7 DLI and was killed in the Ypres gas attack in 1915, within a week from landing. Hence my interest.

John

hi
digging again ( i really enjoy this, keeps the old brain active. ) i found this re RWF graves in Calonne.and several unknowns.

.http://www.inmemories.com/Cemeteries...nesurlalys.htm

you probably know about them already.

ivor

re above.
Historical Information

During the withdrawal of the British Expeditionary Force to Dunkirk in May 1940, there was heavy fighting in the area around Calonne-sur-la-Lys, and most of the inhabitants left the area. The school was used by the Germans as an aid post, and British soldiers who died at Calonne, either in battle or of wounds while prisoners, were buried by the Germans in the field behind the school. In 1942 the local people moved these graves into the communal cemetery, but in the meantime the rough grave markers had in many instances become illegible. The identity discs and personal possessions had mostly been removed before burial, so that in 1942 few of the dead could be identified.

The communal cemetery now contains 23 Commonwealth burials of the Second World War, 14 of which are unidentified. There are also two burials from the First World War.
just thought it might be of interest.

ivor

hi teecee.
is it possible that he name could be BAUDET. i have been looking around Calonne Sur La Lys and found a road called RUE DE MOTTE BAUDET my French is not very good but it appears that a MOTTE is a small wood, belonging to Baudet.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=50.63314...03449&t=h&z=18

it is the small rd leading towards the canal. but directly opposite is a farm. i will see if i can find the name of it. it is on the eastern edge of the village of Saint Flores not far calonne where the Germans had their aid post. we know that "DLI was guarding the Colonne Rd then they might have been here. posibilities that he may be one of the unknowns in Colonne Cemetary.??

will keep looking for the name of the farm.

ivor

I'd noticed that too, Ivor. But it may be on the wrong side of the canal.

John


Attachment 2785

Has anyone had a look in "Red Dragon" just in case there are any other clues?

john.

i wondered about that for a time. but the doc i linked from the Museum states that the DLI took over St Flores on 24th.i read somewhere else that DLI was tasked with holding the Calonne RD and that 2 RWF units would be on their Left flank.(could have been the War Diary's) which i presume were the ones ambushed near Robecq. so i think it a possibility. i have been slightly confused here as i was thinking of Left as in facing the Enemy not as in Line of March.but i figured it.

ivor

Ivor, you may well be right. But what worries me is the spelling 'Baudet', not 'Boudet', which is even further away from 'Boulet' and may indicate a wild goose chase - unless Tony's original source had its spelling mixed up, of course.

John

john.
it troubled me for a bit , but sitting back an thinking brought back some info i was given. some years ago we lived in Huntingdon.cams and for 18 months i was a volunteer assistant at the Mormon Family History Center, Northampton. (only once a month). one of the things which was stressed, in dealing with old records if you don't find a name as you believe it is spelled look for all possible alternatives. From my own experience on 2 occasions i have found my wife's family name of WOODCRAFT changed to WOODCROFT. one of these was on a Death Cert from 1930's. another point that was raised was that some of the people making the old records were barely literate themselves and the name may have been recorded phonetically.
i am not suggesting that the person or persons who wrote the diary were not literate but i have absolutely no doubt that they were under extreme pressure at the time so errors are to be expected also the names are in a foreign language. so i think that there is enough similarities for a mistake to occur.also i suspect they were written in good old fashioned PENCIL which adds another element of difficulty to the problem.


ivor

hi again
thi is a link to a interractive tourist map and i have just been looking at the location in question

http://www.france-voyage.com/towns/c...-lys-23949.htm.

you will have to enlarge the map follow the D186 till you find the road. then drag the little man symbol to the junction then explore.

ivor

I know what you mean, Ivor. Compiling the list of all Other Ranks of 1 RWF in '14-'18 and trying to write their potted biographies from the remaining service records, medal rolls and so on I have come across all possible variations. One of the men went under three different names, and that was just in the official papers (I wonder if he also received three pensions - probably not).

Well. it's early days yet. Who knows what Monsieur le Maire of St Venant is going to reply. Might surprise us all.

John

john.

i am starting to think that Monsuieur le Maire of Calonne Sur le Lys who will have the key. but we shall have to wait and see.

ivor

Ivor, I just spent half an hour writing a reply and suddenly it's been deleted for some reason so forgive me if you get a duplicate or two similar replies.
Firstly I'd like to say a big thank you to members of this forum who have gone to so much trouble to help me with my quest.

Regarding your last reply, ordnarily I'd go along with you 100% and I've always believed that there are many derivations of certain surnames simply because the registrars were not very good at spelling when the first censuses were compiled. My own name, Corkhill, is spelled, Corkill, Corkin as well as Corkhill. A few weeks ago, I found, by chance, a photograph of a headstone in St Venant churchyard with the name V. Boulet. I have since found that Boulet is not an uncommon name in that town and I believe that there are two or three Boulets still living there. This does suggest that 'Farm Boulet' may be correct even though there is still room for doubt.

Your post of 13.24 today is very interesting. For the moment I can't find my original thread and so I may repeat myself here;- My interest in the location of the farm is as follows;- My uncle was last seen alive by RSM Goddard to whom he was Batman, on the 27th May 1940. He was wounded in both legs and the Germans had said that he would be taken to hospital by an field ambulance that was in the area. He was never seen again and Red Cross enquiries confirmed that he had never been taken to hospital or a POW camp. At about 12 noon on the same day, a British soldier, wounded in both legs, was approached by an SS soldier near a barn on Farm Boulet and shot in the head. There were two witnesses to this shooting. One was M. Victor Boulet aged 64 years and the other was a girl of about 20 years. This British soldier was left where he fell, as were others. They were buried a few days later in the area where they had been killed and the bodies were exhumed in 1942 and reburied.

The British soldier could well have been my uncle and so I am keen to find out the location of the farm because if it turns out that the farm was not in the vicinity of where the DLI were occupied in their battle, and was, say ten miles away, then that soldier was not my uncle and I can conclude that part of my search.

The information about the shot British lad, I got from the St Venant War Crimes record.

Thanks again,

Tony

Ivor,

Thanks again. You could be on to something here. The map shows that there is a canal quite near the road. RSM Goddard stated that Anthony was lying wounded near the canal when he was last seen. At the time, RSM Goddard was being marched away, with others, to a POW camp. I have never known exactly where they were when they were overpowered and taken prisoner.

Furthermore, the St Venant War Crimes record states that the British soldier, shot near Farm Boulet, was, after a few days, buried on the Robecq Rd. There is a road from Calonne to Robecq. Perhaps that was the road where he was buried, not the one from St Venant.

John,

Sorry for ignoring you its just that I seem to have spent the last two hours replying to Ivor. Thanks for that email address, I am now sending off a request to him. Thanks again, Tony.

hi.
sadly i think my street name may be a red herring as you said john because if my very sketchy understanding of the following s correct it goes back many,many years.
En revanche, la rue de la Motte-Baudet a eu la chance de conserver sa dénomination traditionnelle, qui nous rappelle l'existence d'une motte féodale à proximité de cet endroit. Il faut cependant signaler au passage que "Baudet" n'a rien à voir ici avec les ânes : il s'agit du nom du propriétaire primitif de la motte (Baudet est un diminutif de Baude, nom de baptême d'origine germanique) et son origine pourrait remonter au Moyen Age.

however i still think it a possible position to defend the approaches to St floris.

ivor

oh on some links it is Calonne sur le Lys and St Venant War Crimes

Your interpretation is correct, Ivor. The Motte Baudet refers to a mediaeval stronghold on a mound, and 'Baude' is thought to be the name of the original owner (of Germanic stock). The word 'motte' is still used in English too, in the technical expression 'motte-and-bailey castle'.

John

Another possible approach, Tony.

The CWGC keep excellent records and will be able to give information on the original burial sites of men later removed to concentration cemeteries. It is possible that they have a record of one or more burials along the Calonne-Robecq and St Venant-Robecq roads. That is how I once identified a man.

No harm in asking.

John

John, thanks once again. A while ago I did get in touch with the CWGC and, whilst I hold them in the highest regard, they could not tell me more than what I already know. It is believed that Anthony may not have been wearing any identifying tags at the time of his death. It seems that he left these behind, inadvertently, when he left England for the final time. Although I cannot verify this information, it does seem very likely as he has not been identified to this day.

I will, however be contacting the CWGC at a later date when I have more information regarding Farm Boulet.

Thanks,

Tony

Make sure you ask them about unidentified burials, Tony. They should be able to produce a little map with all the burials in the area, named or unnamed.

John