Frank Williams WW2 Wrexham TA, RWF mix of units, Killyleagh, Possible Commando time

Good Morning.

A Question, if i may. I am not sure about procedure. If a man is Attested on 6/6/39, 4th Posted 6/6/39. Then Embodied on 2/9/39 8th where would he be between these dates, basic training or ?????
It seems to me that the period between 2/9/39 and his posting back to 4th on 22/9/40. is interesting,



ivor

I think I am going to owe some of you a coffee or a pint soon.

Hi All.
Chow linked this on to Facebook. While it does not mention Frank. it does go to prove that RWF personnel were involved with the independent Co's in Norway and were in Northern Island. interesting reading


ivor

A very interesting story.
I recently met a gentleman at the museum whose father, an officer in the Royal Welch Fusiliers during the Second World, hailed from Llandudno. He very kindly lent me a copy of his father’s personal war diary and it is apt as May 26th is th... See more
Photo: I recently met a gentleman at the museum whose father, an officer in the Royal Welch Fusiliers during the Second World, hailed from Llandudno. He very kindly lent me a copy of his father’s personal war diary and it is apt as May 26th is the anniversary of Lieutenant John Fitton’s capture by the German Army - after he and his section of men were ambushed in Norway in 1940. Lieutenant Fitton was a territorial in the 9th battalion RWF and, like so many others, received a telegram on the 1st of September 1939 instructing him to “Report immediately!” After a week in Caernarfon, Fitton was transferred to the 6th battalion and moved to Old Colwyn. The battalion left for Northern Ireland in October that year where they remained until May 1940. On May 10th 1940, Fitton and No. 2 Company departed Edinburgh aboard the SS Ulsterman, with HMS Cossack as their escort, and landed at Bodo, Norway three days later - where they were billeted in a fish factory. For the next fortnight the RWF carried out patrols, manned road blocks and gathered intelligence while constantly being watched by German reconnaissance aircraft. After coming under fire from the air and spending many nights in the freezing cold Fitton was ordered to report to company headquarters in Bodo. Cold and tired the men were running out of rations; their Norwegian interpreter had deserted them and shortly after 2pm they came under enemy fire. In the ensuing fire-fight a number of Lieutenant Fitton’s section was killed, Fitton himself was shot in the hand and briefly knocked unconscious when a round struck his helmet. Deciding that the only option was to surrender, the young officer ordered his men not to move but as he was getting to his knees, so did one of his soldiers, resulting in the death of Corporal Godsell. They remained in that position “cramped and nearly frozen to death” until the Germans took them prisoner at 4 o clock the following morning – more than 14 hours after the initial engagement. Second Lieutenant Tom Davies of Swansea, Corporal Ernest Godsell and Fusilier Richard Allen both of Welshpool, Fusilier George Black of Caernarfon and Fusilier Edward Roberts of Penycae were all killed. In addition, Lieutenant Fitton mentions that Fusilier Walher (possibly Walker?) was also killed that day but I am unable to find his name on the Commonwealth War Graves database. The following day Lieutenant Fitton and his few uninjured men buried their comrades in a grave close to where they fell; they made wooden crosses and simple pine wreaths and put the men’s steel helmets on the grave before holding a simple service led by the young Llandudno officer. After the war the men’s bodies were laid to rest in the churchyard at Saltdal. Photograph courtesy of the Fitton family.

I've been in close contact with another guy Ted Jones MM. Initially 1st Bn, He was in an independent company in early 1940, and conducted raids on the French Coast during Dunkirk. Before transferring to the 2nd Bn.

thank you chaps - I do appreciate the extra information and stories, it is all so interesting and so important these stories of people's experiences don't get lost over time.

out of curiosity has anyone come across cases of people being 'in hospital' or 'transferred' when they actually were off doing something else?

I was just reading this http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Spy-Work.../dp/1441518355

now I am not saying for one minute my grandfather did anything like this but it does make you wonder if there were some 'outings' that weren't officially recorded anywhere which could explain some rather blank areas and lack of training or anything recorded. My mum keeps saying she can't understand why he was in hospital other than the scabies because he was never ill after the war, the Dr didn't even know who he was when he had to have a medical before working overseas in the 1970s, never had any physical problems at all other than him saying he had flat feet and that was why he became a driver in the end.

hi all
A bit more info re the Independent Co's. Interestingly No2 Co was formed from the 53rd Welsh Dvn.

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/...ent+Companies/

I suppose the problem may well be that initially the Origins of the Commando Co's was questionable, as i believe that their actions were, by some, seen as amounting to Terror Tactics, which resulted on many being executed.
This may have been a reason why the men of the early units retained their Regimental insignia. But this also may be a reason why they were not ''Taken off Strength'', but some explanation for their absence would have to be entered, so ''Hospital'', No explanation necessary.
An interesting Puzzle.


ivor

Ted Jones RWF MM one of our Branch members was a member of an Independent Commando for a period at the start of the war. He was detached from the 1st Battalion and sent with 12 other guys to the Southampton area for demolitions training. He conducted raids against german installations along the french coast in June 1940. Using RN Fast boats to make the journey. He basically described the operations as suicide missions!

No 2 Ind Company conducted the attempted reinforcement of Norway in April/May 1940. Eventually under the command of Hughie Stockwell RWF.

Hi again.
Have been looking into the background of the 'Norway Campaign' - Operation Avonmouth - with it's associated 'Sickle Force, and 'Maurice Force' both landing on 17th April. What is interesting is that their destination was originally supposed to be Finland to assist them with their war with the Soviet Union.

http://www.britishmilitaryhistory.co...y-Overview.pdf

this is quite lengthy but very informative.

http://www.britishmilitaryhistory.co...&nid=4&start=5

It is interesting that the Independent Co's 'Scissor force' was actually made up of small highly maneuverable units. the forerunners of the Commando units.


ivor

"out of curiosity has anyone come across cases of people being 'in hospital' or 'transferred' when they actually were off doing something else?"


Yes my father was oficialy in hospital etc when in actual fact he was making trips to occupied northern France (special ops was the official name)