Ivor, the Rue des Amusoires is named after a large farm, Ferme les Amusoires, further south on the road to Robecq. It's in map square 17, just off my map, below square 11.
John
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Ivor, the Rue des Amusoires is named after a large farm, Ferme les Amusoires, further south on the road to Robecq. It's in map square 17, just off my map, below square 11.
John
Quote:
Originally Posted by vori101
Hello Ivor,
I notice on a daily basis the difference in `official` accounts and the personal diaries and accounts others have supplied.I am not familiar with the diaries of the RWF but what I do know is the DLI diaries were lost and reconstituted later the DLI diaries for the period read more like a personal account rather than an account dictated by brigade and battalion orders and directions.
I have deliberately stayed out of this simply because I felt Tony needed the help of a `Fresh pair of Eyes`which this forum has provided.Like I mentioned I can not provide Tony with a definative answer and hope what I posted has not deflected any of you away from the sterling work you have all contributed todate
I will come back again as the War crimes file I posess has significant interest for those with a RWF interest but again for now I will retreat back to the shadows so I do not deflect Tonys quest for answers.
Best Wishes
Jim
good morning all.
first an apology. the Rue De Les Amusiores runs from Robeq to a point on the Lys just east of the St Venant Cemetery. where R.W.F.Bn HQ was also situated. i should have checked this last night before putting fingers to keys. my only defense is that we are staying with family at the moment and it was quite late. or could it have been a senior moment.
O.K. verriers.i agree that 2DLI HQ was near the cemetery and the RWF HQ. but it is my contention that it was there because the previous HQ had been wiped out at the bridge further east. whatever the name of the road there is,to me anyway, a lot of evidence that leads me to believe that the German break through occurred at the bridge, which we know was taken intact,to the east of St Flores. even john's latest map shows the breach well to the east.of this i am fairly confident.
let us assume for the moment that i may be right about the marks in the field to the north. the track to the right leads to a small wood. the field to the right of this wood also has some odd marks. would it be possible for this to have been a holding/regrouping area for units crossing the river ?
ivor
Good Morning Ivor,Quote:
Originally Posted by vori101
Battalion Hq for 2 DLI was to the best of my knowledge set up in `a` farm which was shelled I believe by advancing German Armour forcing the DLI into a large Barn type building at the rear of the Farm Buildings near a canal..Apart from the fact it was very near to the RWF Hq in the cemetery thats all I can say for certain.
The DLI Companies were spread out over quite a considerable area and there is often confusion in relation to the Bridges I say bridges because there were two one over the Guarbecque Canal on the Rue Berthalotte which `D` Company 2 DLI were hoping to defend and the one over the Lys which the retreating DLI were stopped from crossing by German Machine Gunners on the other side.The confusion arises when each Company action report refers to their HQ without stating if this was Battalion HQ or more likely Company HQ the DLI had believe it or not ..one solitary map of the area.
Your theory may well have good founding I cannot comment as I am not very well versed in the actions of the RWF.The situation I believe in 1940 was termed `Fluid` many individual actions many HQ`s but very little documented regarding the final 2 DLI Hq which was finally overun on the 27th May1940 when Pte Anthony Corkhill was reluctantly left outside a Barn by his comrades and `dissappeared` from history.
Best Wishes
Jim
jim
i do not know if you accessed this link. but it indicates that 2DLI were holding St Floris not St Venant.
would this be of use you will need to scroll to he 4th entry
http://www.rwfmuseum.org.uk/nb.html
i think 'Fluid ' is a fairly conservative term for the situation at the time.i could think of some this is a family site.My father was BEF a signaler (RCS) attached to the 59th(4th West Lancs )medium RA. and although he died when i was very young some of the stories i heard were hairy to say he least.
I guess documentation was not really a priority at this time so it is not surprising that there is so much confusion. maybe with this thread we may clear up a little bit.
regards
ivor
Summing up:
DLI pushed back from St Floris to St Venant, uncovering a canal crossing near St Floris. New HQ 27th May in large barn close to RWF HQ in cemetery.
Here you have it all: farmhouse (the one on the previous photo), large barn, cemetery, canal. The large barn is also on the 1917 map detail I posted earlier.
John
Attachment 2797
Hello Ivor,Quote:
Originally Posted by vori101
I am just heading out to work but if you or your fellow contributors think it would be of use I can post the 2DLI War Diaries for the 27th May 1940? If you think it will only confuse the situation I fully understand .Let me know and I`ll sort them this evening for you.
Baconwallah you may just have it there!
Best Wishes
Jim
john.
while i agree that this is the farm where the 2DLI moved their HQ with the RWF HQ in the cemetery. i am not convinced that this is farm boulet. i think we will have to agree to differ on this one at the moment and await results.
ivor
Feel free to disagree, Ivor.
In my humble opinion the Bn HQ was at the Ferme Boulet when it was overrun on the 27th, so this must have been the place. Still, we'll see what my friend in the area has to say about it.
Jolly good thread this!
John
john.
i totally agree a jolly good thread. i think we have learned a lot about this particular phase of the battle.
we have narrowed down the location of tony's uncle's death and i have every confidence that the exact site will be established.
in summary.i believe that the action, which resulted in Pte Corkhill's death. took place early on the 27th May 1940 near a bridge over the Lys at the end of the Rue De Motte Baudet. at the eastern end of St Floris.i believe that the 2DLI Hq was here at farm Boulet. and as a result of this action the HQ was wiped out. we know that Col Harrison of the RWF ordered all troops that could, to retreat over the bridge and i believe that this is when Pte Corkhill received his wounds from machine gun fire.
Due to the engineers not being in place to blow this bridge it was captured intact,thus giving the Germans access to the north bank and giving them opportunity to attack St Venant.
i also believe that this allowed the Germans to move large amounts of heavy equipment across to the north bank which i think is quite boggy in places which accounts for the tracks in the field. from here they went east probably regrouping in the field by the woods before attacking Merville.
it appears that as the BEF had moved north into Belgium all maps of France had been withdrawn so the units had only a rough idea where they were.which i think accounts for some of the confusion between positions in St Venant and St Floris.
whatever the outcome this has been totally fascinating.and the fact that Tony should ,at last, find where his Uncle died a great result. i am very pleased that i have been able to play a small part in it.
Tomorrow AM we are heading back to our base in Tywyn,West Wales where we do not have WiFI internet so i am only going to have limited access by my phone or by visiting our local library so after tonight i will be quiet for a while. chow will be keeping me informed with what is going on.
ivor.
oh, if you remember my speculation re some standing water around the field with the tracks. by some odd coincidence the Franco - Belgian border follows the water. ideas anyone...