Printable View
Err hello again.
in my earlier post i mentioned odd words or phrases creating a link. wweellll i just hit myself with one. hmmmm
Now, there are 14 Unknowns in Calonne cemetery, i believe Anthony is one of them.
Accepting RSM's report that Anthony's wounds were not serious so not life threatening. So if he was murdered by the SS, was he the only one. It would be quite interesting to know how many of the 14 have bullet wounds to the head.
Can we get a line on the 41/42 files ?
ivor
Thanks again, Ivor,
Regarding the DNA test. This is not as 'pie in the sky' as it seems. A few weeks ago I watched a TV programme about a WW1 burial site. Ironically, it was one of those nights when every ten minutes the phone rang and I kept losing the thread of the programme. Although I missed a lot of detail, I learned that there was a graveyard in France where they (CWGC I think) were going to exhume the bodies and offer relatives the chance obtain identification by DNA. I'm sure there had been a disappointing response.
I think the DNA test may be possible only because of the time that had elapsed between the deaths and the exhumations. At the moment, this would not be possible for 1940 but I'm sure there will be an opportunity when the time scale allows.
If anyone saw this programme and can enlarge on it, I would be pleased to hear from them.
Tony.
Hello ,
You all have been very busy indeed and now you have me thinking tell me what you think of this
During my research into the field grave lists a lot of people will have wondered why bother as Anthony is unknown so will not feature.The aim of the research has been to secure the buriel place of another 2 DLI casualty who died of wounds on the same day as mentioned Syd Walt died on May 29th he does not feature in any of the known field graves.Would it be fair to assume he has died in a hospital? Following his death he has been taken to the cemetery direct? If the German War Graves Commision has a record of Syd Walt would they have a record of other unknown soldiers buried the same day you see there are no missing unknowns from the Royal Berks or Royal Welch for the 29th May 1940. Whilst I have to check the Royal Artillery Unit present could this be a way forward?
Best
Jim
Jim, to be honest Anthony may have died in hospital or he may even have been killed where he lay on the canal bank or as stated earlier he could have been one of the murdered in hospital at Calonne. Untill we find some evidence of if he was even moved to hospital i cant see us proving anything sadly.
There is a lot of records from the Royal Berks missing mate (including the war diary for the time which is not shown anywhere on the Wardrobe site). I can only assume it was lost/destroyed/damaged so badly as to be unreadable at some point during the campaign or evacuation.
The trouble with the artillery conection is that you will have to look at not only Brigade but also Divisional artillery units and possibly even Corps level but good luck to you in that. Dont forget mate there may well have been French artillery within range as well.
Cheers
Dave
Hello Dave,
I do not doubt for one minute the task ahead but if Anthony died on that Canal bank he is either one of those `inconnu` in the field graves which I am beginning to doubt by their position in relation to the canal bank,or has been suggested the Germans were good as their word and he died in a hospital. The Artillery etc isnt such a big problem as you may think the units involved are well known and many lie within the cemetery. Anthony has a known date of death,a single day,not an estimated between dates as the majority seem to have which indicates to me as I have said all along there was a witness,the battle on the 29th was over by two days the DLI scattered .The witness whoever he was knew Anthony so he wasnt a soldier from another regiment he was a Durham (or his death details are recorded elsewhere and for some reason being kept from public view? Unlikely as the war crimes feature roasting alive of British PoWs and that is HORRIFIC).There was no doubt to the British that Anthony was dead he wasnt placed on the missing men file he was mard as DEAD again indicating a witness.
Pte Syd Walt is buried in St Venant he died of wounds (confirmed not assumed) on the 29th also presumably recorded by the Germans. If the Germans have two British deaths (Not French Anthony could still talk and I assume he would have spoken and be in British battledress) recorded on the 29th May who is the other? There are no more recorded in the area of the action and more importantly as we do not have as yet the location of his burial have we an unknown headstone with a date of death inscribed 29th May 1940 in one of the local cemeteries? We know already how many unknowns there are but not whats inscribed on their stones.
All ifs buts and what ifs but we can second guess Anthonys demises until eternity but will we find him with this enquiry. If it turns out there isnt a second burial with Syd Walt then that theory is gone but if there is then I for one would be interested in how/who tht could be:-)
Best Wishes
Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcdl12976
good morning all
according to a CWGC search Sid Walt is buried in St Venant Community Cemetery. Plot 3 Row A, Grave 20.
From what we now know, that would seem to indicate that he was in a grave cleared by the St Venant Local Council.
I think it very doubtful that, if he died elsewhere he would have been moved to another location.
Do you have or can you get hold of the list of field graves for the Calonne area. Particularly the School Field i Think this is here we should take a look, especially as we know it was cleared under the 41/42 clearances then the files should have been accepted, therefore they must be kept somewhere. I think we need to know how many unknowns were in that field.
With regard to proof that he was taken to Calonne by the German's.
We have evidence from the Frenchman's book that British wounded were taken there, we have evidence from RSM Goddard that he was told that the field unit, which we believe operated from there, would deal with Anthony, and we have evidence again from RSM that he informed a party of stretcher bearers of Anthony's location.
On the basis of the above i believe we would have '' Reasonable Cause To Believe '' that Anthony was taken there.
Whilst i am not sure, i think it possible that, even on it's own, this just might be sufficient to request an investigation.
ivor
Jim, All you say is perfectly logical and i believe you may be on the right track mate, your statement "or his death details are recorded elsewhere and for some reason being kept from public view?" it is my belief there is a lot being hidden for some reason including the POSSIBILITY that the war diary for the Royal Berks for this time may be being kept from the public for some reason, this however is conjecture and i have no evidence that this is the case though an e-mail i sent to the Wardrobe before i joined this forum about my Dad has never been replied to (unless it has disapeared into an internet black hole and i have checked the spam folder every day).
Cheers now
Dave
hi.
looking further at Calonne i find that there are 3 RWF buried there. Now i was not aware that RWF had been involved in a fire fight in Calonne. so how did they come to be there, it they were wounded in the St Venant/St Floris area.
The only reasonable explanation is, taken there by the German's, this further strengthens my belief that Anthony would also have been taken there. Further backing for '' Reasonable Cause ''.
I seriously believe that we need to have a closer look at this school field.
ivor
Ivor i think you may be on to something here mate.
The cemetry info says.
The Communal Cemetery surrounds the church which is in the middle of the village. The Commonwealth war graves are in four plots: one containing 7 burials from the Second World War, one containing 13 burials from the Second World War, one containing a single burial from the First World War, and finally a plot containing 3 burials from the Second World War and 1 burial from the First World War.
This makes 23 2nd WW burials yet only 11 are named i would assume that means the other 12 were unidentified when reintered later, given as you say the 3 RWF burials and the fact that the RWF were not involved at Calonne it would be interesting to know morwe about these 12 as i would suspect maybe Anthony was one of them.
Dave.
Edited to add this link http://www.inmemories.com/Cemeteries...nesurlalys.htm
So according to this site 2 of the unknowns are Manchester Regiment and 1 was Field Artillery so that still leaves 9 possibilites for Anthony.
Please bear in mind that on the 24th D Coy took a wrong turning and went southwest instead of northwest to St-Floris. They ran into a German ambush and had to retreat to Calonne before going on to St-Floris. No doubt their casualties were left in Calonne.Quote:
Originally Posted by vori101
John