4189281 Cpl William Christopher Watson - RWF 1930's

Hi again.
in an earlier post you mentioned Children.
Family search.
For William Watson and Martha J England. all Swansea.
William... B 1912
Thomas J... B 1914
George.... B 1916
Mary A.. B 1918
Lilly M.. B 1920
Brinley J.. B 1923
Eileen... B 1925
Richard .. B 1928.

If you want i can look up their details. let me know.


ivor

hi.
Brinley J Watson and Ursula J M Gatz.
B 1949. Raymond.

ivor

Hi again.
O.K. susanjane, ernest. do you have any reference to the family members Emigrating to the U.S. There is a possibility that Thomas J and George Emigrated in 1944.It would appear that William Watson Snr was born in 1890, married Martha J England in 1911 (mar q) and there is a record of a William Watson age 61 (B.1890) emigrating to The U.S in 1951.
There is a record of George Watson Marrying a Margaret A Davies from Neath in 1938.
I am going to keep looking at these folks as this is now quite interesting. If this is your William C Watson is it possible that he may have gone to the US for a while? as i said interesting

ivor

STOOOOOOPPPPPP!!!!

Ok, with Clive Hughes I checked the RWF Enlistment Register at the RWF Archive this morning. We obtained the following detail:

Full Name: William Christopher Watson
Born: 6/9/1911 - No place of birth shown

Enlisted on a 12yr engagement 7/5 So 7yrs colour service. Then a further 5yrs on the reserve.

16th June 1938 He was transferred to the army reserve. So he still had 5yrs potential service to complete at that point, if required.

Obviously mobilised in 1939, at the onset of WW2

24 Sep 1939 Appointed/Posted to 341st MG Centre Guernsey
Later re-transferred back to RWF (4th Bn)
17 May 1942 T/D(Temp Detached?) to the Welch Regiment
26 May 1942 Docs(documents) to Exeter(Administrative District HQ for the Welch Regiment perhaps).

Notes:
No further entries after Exeter, so we can assume he was then being administered by a Non - RWF Unit, who later would have managed his final discharge. (Bob/Keith does that sound right?).

I have informed the family, they will log in later today to gather the information.

The red pen concerns me somewhat. Not sure if its transference from another page. I have re-checked CWGC.

http://rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/att...tid=3637&stc=1

Hi.
Al.
my posts are in response to a request, by Sue in posts 115 and 118.
The William C Watson you are referring to would appear to have been born Birmingham Area as the Birth is registered West Bromwich. I believe this chap may have been referred to in earlier posts.


ivor

Isn't there also a Watson born in Neath in the final qtr of 1911? or have they obtained that certificate.
We understand it, do the family?

http://rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/att...tid=3638&stc=1

Hi again.
I agree but in this case we have the names of both parents which match with my info. Family search does not give me any alternatives for WATSON/ENGLAND.this is a quite rare surname.Also the wedding in 34 ties in with the record of the trip back from Gib.
It is quite possible that our Swansea Family had relatives in Neath, as,if my info is correct then George Watson (22) married into a Neath family.
On the info we have on here this is the best shot. we just have to await further info.


ivor

Names of both parents? I don't think we do Ivor? I thought they were merely suggestions? Not definite's. Apologies if i'm wrong on that. Have we seen a document, where the maiden name is England is directly linked to our man?

Looking through Ancestry, one thing that concerns me is a lack of any suitable candidate who was born in the Third ¼ of 1911. Likewise on the death lists, same issue. Maybe i will get the archive to re-check the entry…in case i've mis-read it.

hi.
in post 105 sue refers to Watson/England marriage 1911.Confirmed be FreeBMD and Family search. in post 111 she mentions 7 Children, Family search has 8, well ok. possibly not a problem.
William died age 42 in 1954 confirmed by FreeBMD as with Brinley J Death Sept q 64 age 42.
With regard to documentary evidence, no we do not, i have based my findings on Sue's info. at the moment i can not do anything else. unfortunately Watson is a common name in Glamorgan and Swansea in particular. at the moment this guy fits a lot of Sue's questions.
using a search Mar 1910 to Dec 1912. FreeBMD only lists 3 William C Watson.
our West brom guy mentioned earlier
William C Sept q 1910 Pontyprydd
William C Dec 1911 Neath, Mothers Maiden name Jones.
as you say not many options. so until we get some more or different info for now i will stick with what i have.

ivor

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ap1

Isn't there also a Watson born in Neath in the final qtr of 1911? or have they obtained that certificate.
We understand it, do the family?

---

In an effort to move this thread on and to prevent the family chasing their tails. I've obtained the certificate for the Neath man. It is our William Watson born 6 Sept 1911. As per the RWF Enlistment Register.

The family can now apply for his death cert and then his service record.

http://rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/att...tid=3643&stc=1

Hi Al.

Puzzle time. I have been looking for a Date of Death for the 1911 man with no luck. i have a record of a W.C. Watson death age 39 Pontyprydd but i am unable to confirm this with other sources.
But with regard to this guys Service Record, is there anything after the 1942 entry. did he leave ?

ivor

We think he transferred to the Welch Regiment.

Hi all.
i have read through this thread 3 times in the last 24 hours to try and make some sense of the info.now that my headache has gone maybe somethings make some sense.
But first i need an opinion from John. much earlier in the thread we had the Death Certificate of William Charles Watson B 1910 died 1950 age 39 of Exhaustion, Status Epilepticus., now, john, with your knowledge of these matters, could this have been caused by his occupation. and just out of interest is Epilepsy Hereditary?.
The reasoning behind this is that we have 3 men who died at a young age. the one above and 2 of the Swansea Watson's. William C. D1954 age 42 and Brinley J. D1964 age 42. As i can not find any Military records for these guy's is it possible that they were in reserved occupations,eg Coal Miners. or similar.or were they possibly exempt on health grounds.
O.K. with regard to the Neath, actually Aberavon William Christopher. it would appear that his father William Watson B1875 married a Margaret Williams in 1910 also at Aberavon. This now raises some interesting questions. Whilst i am in agreement with Al on this. i can not find any Record of his death within U.K. records.But i have seen a Death Record from New York of a William age 77 dying in 1988. a problem occurs here with possible wedding's i have a William C marrying a Doris Williams in Swansea in Jun 1934. and a William C marrying an Ann E M James in 1958. Hmmm.
But i also have a Record of a William C Born 1911 Neath,Migrating to the U.S in 1943.
any ideas anyone.

ivor

I'm not sure what your asking Ivor? I assume you accept William C Watson born in the Neath Registration District is the correct man. His details match the RWF Enlistment Record I copied at the archive.

In which case the only question remaining, is where did he die….is that correct?

Can you show us the detail of the guy emigrating to the US in 1943 please?

Al

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vori101

But first i need an opinion from John. much earlier in the thread we had the Death Certificate of William Charles Watson B 1910 died 1950 age 39 of Exhaustion, Status Epilepticus., now, john, with your knowledge of these matters, could this have been caused by his occupation. and just out of interest is Epilepsy Hereditary?

---

Epilepsy in most of its variants is caused by brain damage. Hereditary epilepsy does exist but is rare.

The damage may have an external cause (accidental or intentional poisoning, mechanical trauma) or an internal cause (reduced cerebral circulation). Some external causes are in my opinion self-inflicted (drugs, booze).

The most extreme sort of epileptic seizure, the status epilepticus, will cause death through exhaustion, unless aggressively (and immediately) treated.

John

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vori101

But i have seen a Death Record from New York of a William age 77 dying in 1988. a problem occurs here with possible wedding's i have a William C marrying a Doris Williams in Swansea in Jun 1934. and a William C marrying an Ann E M James in 1958. Hmmm.

But i also have a Record of a William C Born 1911 Neath,Migrating to the U.S in 1943.
any ideas anyone.

ivor

---

Hi Ivor,

Regarding the William Watson who sailed to the US in 1943. I have him on FMP as a Marine Engineer residing in Essex. Unlikely to be our man, purely because of the trade stated although you do mention he's from Neath. FMP doesn't show that:

http://rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/att...tid=3651&stc=1

Regarding the marriage in 1958 of William C Watson to Anne James. That is worthy of a more detailed follow up.

http://rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/att...tid=3652&stc=1

Really pleased to see that we have progressed on this again. Thanks Al.
I had spent quite some time on it!

I will look at 1911 census and also for possible siblings to William C.

Also possible children from 1934 marriage

Sue

Quote:

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Originally Posted by susanjane

Also possible children from 1934 marriage

Sue

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Thanks Sue, am I right in saying there is not definite link between the 1934 marriage and our man?

Hi
sorry it is not William C just W
William Watson

New York, New York Passenger and Crew Lists, 1909, 1925-1957

birth: 1911 British
immigration: 1943 New York City, New York, United States

Name William Watson
Event Type Immigration
Event Date 1943
Event Place New York City, New York, United States
Gender Male
Age 32
Birthplace British
Ship Name Fort Albany
Birth Year (Estimated) 1911
Affiliate Publication Title Passenger and Crew Lists of Vessels Arriving at New York, NY, 1897-1957
Affiliate Publication Number T715
Affiliate Film Number 6759
GS Film number 002310564
Digital Folder Number 007258661

this is taken from the following link

https://familysearch.org/search/coll...3888&offset=20

ivor

Thanks Ivor,

That guys the 1st Engineer, a crew member, he's been at serving at sea for 9 yrs and he's Scottish. The detail appears when you look at the original image.

hi. could be this guyName: William Watson
Event Type: Immigration
Event Date: 1943
Event Place: New York City, New York, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Birthplace: Scotland
Ship Name: Leerdam
Birth Year (Estimated): 1911
Affiliate Publication Title: Passenger and Crew Lists of Vessels Arriving at New York, NY, 1897-1957
Affiliate Publication Number: T715
Affiliate Film Number: 6698
GS Film number: 002310503
Digital Folder Number: 007258600
Image Number: 00236



Citing this Record:
"New York, New York Passenger and Crew Lists, 1909, 1925-1957," index and images, <i>FamilySearch</i> (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/2H9S-KCN : accessed 29 Nov 2014), William Watson, 1943; citing Immigration, New York City, New York, United States, NARA microfilm publication T715, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington, D.C.; FHL microfilm 002310503.

HI.
Al.
These 2 records are for different persons. if you look at the set of serial numbers you will see they are different. and Scottish is used quite frequently as opposed to British.

Thats the guy I showed the transcript of in post #136. A Marine Engineer. Not our guy, not after a career in the infantry. Additionally place of birth? Arbroath.

hi.

this is a link too family search and you can see my search parameters.the first 2 entries. were on different ships. but the first is the one i posted earlier.

https://familysearch.org/search/reco...r%3A1943-1943~


ivor

Again, he's Scottish and serving at sea for 9 years! Our man is Welsh and has spent most of his working life in the infantry. Could he really be 1st Engineer in a few short months?

Also Marriages, assuming he did get married. Neath may not be relevant other than the birth registration. We know he was living in Swansea in 1938.

http://rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/att...tid=3654&stc=1

Al.
the first 2 entries re weddings.

https://familysearch.org/search/reco...r%3A1943-1943~

ivor

The marriage between William senior and Margaret Williams seemed to be in Jun q 1910

William Watsons siblings appear to be
Cyril b Sep q 1914-died before he was 1
Launcelot R Sep q 1916 both Neath

And just possibly Rosina M born Sep q 1910

A Lancelot R marries in Leeds in 1937 to Mary Stead. There is one child born the following year in Leeds.
Gwyneth- a good Welsh name. There are others to Watson and Stead in Yorkshire

1911 census brings this info. living in 6 Wern St Aberavon--as per WW's Birth Cert

William Watson 35 carpenter b N Glamorgan
Margaret 34 married 15 years 5 children all living .Born Briton Ferry
Mary Elizabeth 12 scholar born Neath
Bertie 14 engine cleaner ditto
Diana 8
Trevor 6
Rosina 4--all these born Morriston Glamorgan


I couldn't find the family in 1901 with elder 2 children.
Then I saw why.....
Looking at Freebmd. The older 2 don't turn up as Watson but possibly do as Williams born Neath.

I haven't looked for the 3 younger ones yet

I had another look at passengers lists

I remembered a Policeman-William Watson- in and out of Hong Kong-- born 1911 with wife Doris . Sadly she is Doris Jane not M.[as per the Williams marriage in 1934]

Well I found them again going out sometime after WW2-seemed perfect for him having been there in 1930's.

But then I found them returning from HK in Nov 1945. Had they been interned by the Japanese? Or gone out for interviews?

They travelled together but gave a Scottish address for him and a Cardiff one for her. She was a Nursing Sister.

So vaguely possible except that her 2nd name is wrong.

All for now

Sue

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ap1

Thanks Sue, am I right in saying there is not definite link between the 1934 marriage and our man?

---

Yes there is nothing conclusive. Does the RWF entry give any next of kin? and/or an address ?

Also his height? I see that the 1st Engineer was 5ft 8ins [that Ivor found]

All the children in 1911 seem to be Williams not Watson --by checking on Births.
Sue

Hi All.
Sorry for my last,deleted post, right info wrong conclusion.(possibly age related Hmmmm)
Right.
as you correctly identified W Watson (post 139) 1st Engineer on the Fort Albany. but my 2nd W Watson (post 141) was a passenger on the Leerdam which was a passenger liner of the Holland America line. which both Pre and Post War sailed between Rotterdam and New York calling at Southampton. I do not know about wartime voyages yet, but i imagine she was operating as a troop ship, between US and UK.

ivor

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by susanjane

Yes there is nothing conclusive. Does the RWF entry give any next of kin? and/or an address ?

Also his height? I see that the 1st Engineer was 5ft 8ins [that Ivor found]

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No NOK or address Sue. Regarding the height. I think he's quite tall, looking at the photos, certainly in excess off 5'8.

Yes I thought that he looked tall in the photos that Ernest sent.

I might have found the William Watson who married Doris in Swansea in 1934.

On outgoing Passengers I Saw him described as 35 in Oct 1948 in the index .But when I looked he was clearly down as 53!! In Commerce
With him was Doris 50 and Lorna 22.They gave a hotel in Walton on Thames as their last address and were on their way back to Buenos Aires and were listed in the Aliens Index.
All citizens of Argentine.
Doris might have been a 2nd wife or maybe they married over in UK to establish a legal British marriage.

There was also a William Watson born 1911/12 who regularly travelled to Gib and Spain[Vigo] with his mother Dorothy. They lived in Solihull so he might be the West Bromwich contender. When the ship went to Vigo she was travelling on to Monte Video.
Then he?? travelled in 1934 aged 23 to The St Vincent Islands as Foreign Correspondent.
Then in 1940 aged 28 to Ceylon-a student. With him Oliver Watson 26 also a student. All very intriguing!!

Sue

Hi All.
First, Sue, Morriston is probably the Hospital.
Al.I agree with you that 4189281 is the William Christopher born in Neath, which partly solves the original question. I believe he married Ann E M James in 1958 in Neath. But it is very odd that i can find No DoD in UK records. details of Ann are also sketchy,for instance, how old was she, and to date i can find no death record for her.
Having looked on a few US Family History Sites, you have to Pay on most and as William Watson is a Very common name in N.York it may be a costly process.if he did emigrate to the US. If he was in the Far East he could have returned there.
I will continue looking for our Neath man but i see very little point in chasing others, at the moment.

ivor.

Hi
a possible candidate . DoB the same. (maybe wishful thinking )
William Watson
United States Social Security Death Index
Given Name: William
Surname: Watson
Birth Date: 6 September 1911
Social Security Number: 253-03-0837
State: Georgia
Last Place of Residence: Macon, Bibb, Georgia
Previous Residence Postal Code: 31202
Event Date: June 1981
Age: 70

to give some idea of the scale of this, this is entry 730ish of 208.000+. it's a bloody popular name William Watson

jvor

I have looked for Births between 1905 and 1930 of Ann E M and found several in Wales-and more in England. However none are shown as subsequently married to a James.
In Neath alone a few men, surname James, of approx. the same age as William Watson died between 1950 and 1958.

It seems likely that this was a 2nd marriage for her and that possibly she was about the same age as Watson. With those surnames it is a bit like looking for the proverbial needle...
I had hoped that Ann E M would narrow the search!

I retold the stories of the other W W's purely because I had found them in my searches!

I had hoped to find W W returning to UK in 1938 from India but no luck so far.
Sue

Vori

regarding the Death in macon, Bibb, Georgia in Jun 1981 I have found on Georgia Deaths that his 2nd initial is B. Unfortunately this site doesn't give dates of birth.

There is William C died 7 March1987 aged 76 which indicates born around 1911-in Berrien ,Georgia. Again no Birth date given

I have sent you 2 Private messages from this site but they don't show up on my Sent box so wonder if they have arrived.

Sue

Launcelot Ronald Watson died Sep q 1985 aged 69 born 1916
Bertie Williams/Watson was 5 in 1901 and 14 in 1911 which could mean a late March early April birthday--if they are giving the right info
Trevor 6 in 1911


In 1901 this looks like Margaret and her first family at Clase, Glamorgan


John D Williams 40
Margaret 30
Bertie 5
May/Mary 3 [she was 12 in 1911 so same time scale perhaps-a few days difference in taking of the census those years]
Evan 1-not on 1911 [Evan John died aged 9 in Jun q 1909 born Jun q 1899]
John D Williams 50 died 1907 in Neath I am guessing on those 2 last entries as there are others.
I will look up John D in other census-1891 because of the discrepancy in age at death and on census]


Bertie was a name used on many Birth registrations
Bertie Williams/Watson would have been 17/18 at the start of WW1.Many Bertie deaths on CWGC . Does anyone have access to Aberavon War Memorial transcriptions that might give a further clue ?

Trevor would have been 35 at start of WW2 but might have been in RWF between the wars

Margaret said that she had had 5 children all living and 15 years married on 1911[but not, I think, married 15 years to William Watson senior]

Sue

Valentine Frederick Loos Grevitt is the Boy Grevitt shown diving in one of Ernest's photos in the Gallery - 1930's.
I have found him travelling from Gib in late Nov 1933 and back in late Jan 1934 aged 17. With many other soldiers doing the return trip.

Valentine Grevitt, in an excerpt from his Memoirs, describes arriving at Hangkow Barracks, Kowloon in late April 1936 with the Regiment and his friend Ginger Lewis .Google.

I might sometime transcribe the list of men.
Sue

4189516 Grevitt - He was attested into the regiment on the 9/4/1931.
He left the regiment on the 16/12/1945.....So full war service.