saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

Hello,
Some interesting comments there ,thank you, I read through some of our old posts and we have actually touched on the AB 64 Paybook before (posts around 520-530) Paybooks generally stayed with the soldier ,the wills? Were they detached? I do not know certainly the ones I have are intact but these soldiers survived the war.

I hate second guessing or scenarios but here`s one anyway;-

Anthony is dead (reasons undetermined possibly listed on Q80) he lies possibly with other `dead` someone (PoW, German, Doctor whatever) removes the personal belongings from the bodies to return them home AB64 included ,there is no need to document them in detail the dog tags will identify the casualty they are simply piled up and taken away possibly in a dated envelope or with dated correspondence to the powers that be stating this soldier died on 29th May 1940 etc (There is documented testimony about to say the Mayor forwarded possessions on to Lille?) Along comes the burial party who then find that for what ever reason (Left at home or erroneously removed as documented elsewhere) Anthony does not have his tags? No one knows which bodies the AB64 has came from and Anthony (and anyone else who was missing tags) are buried as innconnu (unknown). The AB64 finds its way home eventually via the Red Cross say in 1941 .The MoD receive the Paybook is it enough to declare a missing soldier as dead the correspondence would show the date ?(29th May 1940) The Paybook should then have been returned to the next of kin, but to do this would mean they would have awkward questions to answer as to the whereabouts of the body, is it easier to file it ? The soldier`s dead they know that ,why search further ?..that's why Anthony was never declared as a missing man and no subsequent investigation was undertaken because they knew?
The scenario has holes in it of course ,of the 27 men of 2 DLI listed on the Dunkirk memorial there are 7 Wills available to `buy`

Just for discussion and to keep the topic alive :)

Jim

Attachment 3726

Hi all.
the above was posted on the RWF Pals Facebook page earlier by Tony Denic. Tony tells me that it was painted in 1944 by a W S A Clough - Taylor whilst he was a P.O.W. can anyone shed any light on the possibility of the artist being any relation to Capt Clough - Taylor, reported KIA 26 May 40 in the withdrawal from St Venant. This may show the Capt being killed.
I think the Painting is interesting as i believe it shows the Cemetery just in front of the 4 Poplar Trees and the bridge does not look very strong, i am not sure i would want to be the first tank to try it.


ivor

Hi Ivor,

Clough-Taylor RWF survived, a talented artist, he drew the battle scenes from memory whilst a POW. Much of the account from the RWF involvement in St Venant came from his recollections after the war.

Read this little segment from "Dunkirk" https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...%20RWF&f=false

hi.
Thanks for clearing that up. i was sure i had read somewhere that he had been wounded on the bridge.
But the WD said KIA.

The picture shows the old bridge across the lock. The French built their big bridge just to the West of it because the old one could not take heavy traffic. The view is from the big bridge looking East.

John

Hello,
Its been awhile since I updated the search the reason being there has been little progress with the now standard "Sorry we do not hold that information" or "We hold nothing further on WW2" etc. Then a glimmer of hope the National Archives announced the release of WO416 Unknown (British and Commonwealth soldiers) who died in the Germans hands/captivity...unfortunately someone complained regarding the personal information some of the papers contained and ..you guessed it..they closed the file again pending a review! Will it be re-opened? Will it be sealed for another 70 years..or will it be censored ..sorry sorted taking out any "personal" info?

Jim

So yet another door opens and then immediately closes to us at least for the time being.

May have been someone with a lot of pull who complained as my experience is they don't take much notice of the averidge bod

Quick update. Some good news it appears the press are going to run Pte Anthony Corkhill`s story I cannot say too much as I need to speak with Tony about a couple of things first.

Quick update. Some bad news Mr Ian Goddard son of the RSM who last saw Anthony on the Canal Bank in St Venant has passed away in New Zealand. Sincere condolences to his family at this sad time RIP


Best Wishes

Jim

Hello,
I have spoken with Tony and he fully supports the newspaper articles. The reporter has been in touch again today for a photo of Anthony Corkhill documents etc and they have been working on the story today after talking with Tony and his family this morning. They will return to work on Sunday and present the story and secure a publication date . More as it develops.

Jim

It will be interesting to see if they can get anywhere or if the story will disappear without trace

Hello

Update ;- No contact I`m afraid from the Newspapers but Tony informs me they have published it anyway, its not the version I sent them and there`s some glaring mistakes particularly in the Anniversary year but as they say "any publicity is good publicity". Newspaper version online at

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/...ar-old-9141598

The original text I sent them from 2013 just for a comparison

Quote:

---

On the 15th May 1940 Richard Annand of the 2nd Durham Light Infantry won the British Army`s first VC of the second World War yet less than twelve days later this fine battalion were fighting for their lives in the small French Town of St Venant.
On the 27th May 1940 the German Army and units of the Waffen SS drove on relentlessly towards the beleagued British troops gathered around Dunkirk.In their way were men of the British 2nd Infantry Division of which the 2nd Durhams were part.
Amongst the Durhams that day was a 25year old lad from Scotswood, Private Anthony Corkhill,a pre- war regular who had already seen service on the North West Frontier ,India and in the Sudan, was born on May 31st 1912 one of five siblings having three brothers and one sister. The family consisted of Joseph , Anthony ,sister Edith ,Thomas and Robert
Anthony Corkhill was born in Birkett Street, which was considered one of the worst places to live in Wallsend with up to four families sharing an outside toilet and slum conditions throughout the house.
With only two years difference in age, brothers Joseph and Anthony were inseparable and both attended the Western School in Wallsend. Shortly after the birth of their youngest brother,Robert the two brothers came home from school to find that their mother, who had been suffering with severe post-natal depression had incredibly been taken away to what was then known as Morpeth Lunatic Asylum.
It is unlikely that the boys ever saw their mother again and were raised by their maternal grandmother and their Aunt Rosie Kilpatrick who later married Tom Winship a professional football with Arsenal in the 1920s. Anthonys mother spent the rest of her life in the asylum and died in 1928. She was just 42 years old.
A daily routine for the two lads from the time of their mother's hospitalisation was searching the pubs in Wallsend to find their father in order to get him to send money to their granny so that she could buy food. It was a short time later in 1931 that Anthony Corkhill decided to join the Army enlisting into the Durhams in June 1931.
Nine years later Anthony Corkhill found himself fighting with the 2nd DLI alongside men of The Royal Welch Fusiliers and The Royal Berkshire Regiment. You will find little written in the History Books regarding the Battle of St Venant which is strange considering the ferocious nature of the encounter and the great loss of life which occured here.
The small communal cemetery in St Venant holds 177 casualties from the conflict included in this are 90 British soldiers exhumed from a mass grave of which 40 souls still remain `known unto God`. The small well kept plots contain 70 soldiers of The Durham Light Infantry.
On the evening of the 27th May 1940 the battle for St Venant ended. As the few surviving prisoners were being marched away into captivity Regimental Sergeant Major Archie Goddard ,heard a voice call to him fron the canal bank it was Anthony Corkhill who was wounded in both legs and the neck. The RSM begged the Germans to take Anthony Corkhill with them,they refused,there was no way of carrying Anthony over the rough terrain and the Germans ordered the RSM to leave Pte Corkhill for the Germans own Field Ambulance units which were operating in the area.
As the prisoners were led away none of them realised they would never see Anthony Corkhill again. On the 27th May 1940 Anthony Corkhill simply dissappeared. No record was ever found of him being treated by the Germans,no record was ever found of his capture,so what happened to Anthony Corkhill?
The mystery deepens with the date of Anthony`s death officially given as 29th May 1940 two days after the last reported sighting or was it. The Commonwealth War Graves list Anthony as having no known grave commemorated on the Dunkirk Memorial with a date of death recorded as 29th May 1940. On what evidence was the date based on? According to the CWGC they do not hold this information it was provided by the relevent Service Authority at the time. A check on files relating to Durham Light Infantrymen reported missing during the campaign in France in 1940 shows there was no investigation into Anthony Corkhill the file lists him simply as `dead` a Q80 reference is scribbled next to his name.
A casualty card received by the family shows a date of death of May 29th 1940 as do his service records and his pension date.A further entry in the DLI Non Effective Book also reads `Died in France 29th May 1940`.What evidence is held that covers the two days from the RSM`s meeting with Private Corkhill and his date of death? The family are convinced there is another account, a missing piece in the puzzle of Anthony Corkhills death.
This is a mystery which has haunted the Corkhill family for nearly 73 years each generation since have sought to find additional information and each in turn have been frustrated by a seemingly lack of official documentation on the casualties at St Venant. Today the search is headed by his nephew also Anthony (Tony) Corkhill. Tony watched his father Joseph search in vain and ultimately die in despair without making any headway in the search for answers.
War crimes files held at The National Archives include some horrific cases of British soldiers murdered in and around St Venant in May 1940 the Corkhill family are also aware that returning Prisoners of War completed questionaires which included a section to report any mistreatment or war crimes . These details were entered on a Form Q.Does the Q80 reference refer to such a form? These are questions the Corkhill family are hoping can be answered by the Ministry of Defence after a direct request was made to them this week for the release of any information still held relating to the Battle of St Venant and the last days of Anthony Corkhill. The Corkhill family have also forwarded a copy of their enquiry to ther local MP in the hope that he will fully support them in the search for answers.
The story took another unexpected turn recently when it was discovered that only one other man was recorded as dying at St Venant on the 29th May 1940 another DLI soldier Pte Syd Walt originally from Sunderland died two days after receiving wounds at St Venant he rests within the Communal cemetery at St Venant in the next grave is one of the 40 unknown British Soldiers `Known to God`. Is there a survivor of St Venant still out there who knows the truth about Private Corkhill?

---

Jim

I really hope this jogs some memories and proves to the powers that be that this aint going away

Whilst waiting for the News article I decided to send this to the MoD;-

Quote:

---

Sent: 30 April 2015 14:42
To: DBS KI-RecordsPubEnqTeam (MULTIUSER)
Subject: FOI
Dear Sir/Madam,
Would you please advise on the availability of Forms Q used for reporting war
crimes and mistreatment of British Soldiers during WW2. I am aware that some
extracts were released to the National Archives however the original `Forms Q`
were not. The National Archives state "Forms 'Q' were not kept with the main
report, but passed to the appropriate Allied authorities investigating alleged
war crimes". The particular Form Q I am enquiring about is numbered `Q 80` and
deals with events at St Venant France between May 24th-June 1st 1940 I believe
the series starts at Q57 and runs to Q80.
During my research into one particular soldier `Form Q80` is quoted against his
name along with the word `DEAD` his last sighting was on May 27th 1940 wounded
at St Venant. There are no further records but a date of death is given as May
29th 1940. The `Missing Men` files which the MoD released to the National
archives show no indication of any investigation or enquiry into this soldiers
whereabouts but he does get a single mention with his name, number and `DEAD Q
80` It is obvious to me and I am sure you will agree that Form Q80 was enough
for the authorities and service departments to accept this soldier died on May
29th 1940 and the details contained on this form I believe will give us the
information needed to find the general area in which his body was buried at
present he is recorded on the Dunkirk Memorial.


If Form Q 80 War Office: Directorate of Military Intelligence is still held I
would like to apply under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and 1998 Data
Protection Act to have it made accessible. Thank you.
The soldier in question was a member of The 2nd Battalion The Durham Light
Infantry.
Thank You
Yours Faithfully

---

Today I received a not too unexpected reply which does not in my opinion answer the direct FOI request:-

Quote:

---

Thank you for your email
I have been asked to reply that any information that has survived will be at the National Archives.
Kind regards
Carl
MOD DBS Records Office

---

As the reply took less than four working days it is obvious that no search was made,my reply to them;-

Quote:

---

Dear Carl,
Thank you for the standard reply which does not answer my FOI request.I was requesting the documents from yourselves as they were not,as stated, passed to the National Archives possibly for the reasons set ot here.
The Forms Q series of papers deals with the killing and mistreatment of British soldiers in WW2 as these are classed as `personnel documents` I think they would fall into the category for `permanent preservation`.
According to your own literature to warrant permanent preservation the documents contain either "Codeword material, Service Personnel records , Operational Records and Sensitive information "? Your own selection criteria in the 2014 report even states "Records (for example, evidence, transcripts, reports) of tribunals, commissions, inquiries or inquests that were of particular public interest or had a significant impact on policy or process" The series of `Q Forms` falls into every category.
The Q Series has `extracts` at the National Archives to produce an extract then the file from which it has been `extracted` must exist?
These files I detail the loss, circumstances and mistreatment of the British Soldiers are we to assume these records were not `deemed` to be worthy of `permanent preservation` despite your own guidelines? If this is true there must be documentation regarding the specific instructions to have this series of files destroyed please treat this as a double freedom of information request for the `Series Q57-80 St Venant 1940` and/or the document authorising its destruction.
I would be obliged if your holdings held at Swadlincote, South Derbyshire and your higher classification site at Portsmouth Naval Base be thoroughly checked for this document before reply.
Thank You
Yours Faithfully

---

Shy Bairnes get nowt :)

JIm

And now Carl will probably refer you to the CWGC, for a change. Nice try, Jim, but don't hold your breath.

John

Hi All.

Jim, Thanks for the updates. I think that you are right in applying pressure, it may work but as John said don't hold your breath. In the course of my digging i found some very interesting info re persons and family connections. which makes me think that certain things have been ''covered up'' Unfortunately i do not think this info is suitable for discussion on an open forum.


ivor

Hello,
Do not worry I wont hold my breath however the MoD are advertising themselves as a `Business` and they are now publishing their `criteria` for retaining the documents. I am challenging them to produce the authorisation for Forms Q destruction ,after all every thing is done in triplicate :)
In recent months original documents have `appeared` for sale in private hands I`m confident that the series Q were never destroyed if they were they will have proof. I`m not sitting back taking their word or that of the CWGC I am researching their own policy and whatever their argument I will attempt to argue back stating their own policies back to them.
I can prove Q80 existed can they now prove its destroyed given that its `alleged` destruction would be against all their rules and guidelines?
I think the most damning proof is from the National Archives themselves which I have quoted back in my email today

Quote:

---

The Q Series has `extracts` at the National Archives to produce an extract then the file from which it has been `extracted` must exist?

---

You know Carls reply is almost apologetic

Quote:

---

I have been asked to reply that any information that has survived will be at the National Archives.
Kind regards

---

Best Wishes

Jim

For whatever reason they just don't want this information released is my view. To be stopped like this there MUST be someone very high up and powerful involved

I don't know who handles these enquiries but it appears `Carl` only does what he is told, we need a higher authority I wonder who ultimately replies to my latest mail after this reply today? :-

Quote:

---

Thanks again for your email; you will receive an FOI compliant response
from a colleague shortly.

Kind regards

Carl

MOD DBS Records Office

---

I`ve a feeling they will issue a denial on the account of cost in searching, it`s within their rights under FOI regulations? Of course I can then put in an appeal :)

I touched on these files a couple of weeks ago these were released in December 2014..then closed following complaints..

Jim


Unknown (dead) 2

War Office: German Index cards of British and Commonwealth Prisoners of War, Second World War. Unknown (dead) 2.

Held by:	The National Archives - War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Date:	1939 - 1945
Reference:	WO 416/416

Unknown (dead) 3

War Office: German Index cards of British and Commonwealth Prisoners of War, Second World War. Unknown (dead) 3.

Held by:	The National Archives - War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Date:	1939 - 1945
Reference:	WO 416/417

Unknown (dead) 1

War Office: German Index cards of British and Commonwealth Prisoners of War, Second World War. Unknown (dead) 1.

Held by:	The National Archives - War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Date:	1939 - 1945
Reference:	WO 416/415

Serco now runs the top levels of DBS so as a private firm they are in it to make money so I fear you may well be right Jim

Title: The National Archives' User Forum
Date: 18 November 2014
Location: Talks Room
Attendees (staff):


2.2 Q. Can we have an update on WO 416? Will the cards be available to order in the first quarter of 2015?

A. JJo said WO 416 is currently in the building, and is in the transfer process. They will be available soon, though they are loose cards and will need to be viewed under supervision in the invigilation room.

A. LMO said this arrangement is under review. We will take the matter of WO 416 away.

If these minuites are correct then they will be available soon but im not holding my breath

Looks like the CWGC records are coming on line too?

http://www.cwgc.org/news-events/news...ed-online.aspx


Jim

Hi Jim.
Maybe a step in the right direction. But it will not help the search for ''Unknowns etc''. It may give details of ''From Field Grave to Final Resting Place'' which could prove interesting but, as i read it, they are only making available ''on line'' the info that they already hold, which is a valuable research tool. But i do not think it will be of any help to us.


ivor

Hello Ivor,

You may be right Ivor but it really depends if the info they share is `ALL` they hold and not just what they currently display and can be bothered to find in their paper archive. Remember the `Unknown` next to Pte Syd Walt ? The CWGC claimed they held no information on `unknowns` but were still able to dismiss our question "Could this unknown be Anthony Corkhill?" with the reply " Doubtful the unknown soldier was a Corporal?" If they held no info then how were they able to determine his rank?

Best Wishes

Jim

Hello everyone,

Sorry I have not been around lately but as I have said before, I am a bit out of my depth with you boys. I always feel that it is better for me to look and listen, rather than stick my oar in. Thank you to everyone who has contributed to and stayed with this quest from day one. A massive thanks to Jim, who has time and again got me back on track when the case looked like it was all but closed.

I've just had a quick look at the CWGCs promise to make their information available in August. They say that details of 'the full 1.7 million' individuals who are commemorated.........................

Like everyone else, I am not getting carried away with this, but, wouldn't it be nice if things went our way, just this once? Heavens, we deserve a little bit good fortune once in a while.

Thanks again,

Tony

Hi,
Whilst checking a soldier on the CWGC site this afternoon I noticed some soldiers had `two` Additional Information headings? Perhaps in preparation for their `Additional records` they have promised to release in August? If so Anthony Corkhill had `two headings`:)
Sadly this evening its back to one :(

Jim

Hadn't come across that yet, Jim. Perhaps something is moving at last.

John

Remembering today 29th May 2015. 75th Anniversary of the recorded death of Pte Anthony Corkhill 2nd Durham Light Infantry

LEST WE FORGET


Jim

lets hope as well that this year brings information to solve this mystery

Update on WO 416 relating to Unknown PoWs who died in German Hands ? As you may recall these files have been locked again by the National Archives because of their content, apparently medically the Germans were very thorough and this is what has resulted in them being locked..and it looks like they will stay locked as my latest correspondence states a FOI request to have them reopened is a non starter ...BUT..and this is a killer...they MAY consider a request for individual cases to be opened!!!!!! Given they are unknown how is this possible?

Thinking aloud here if the files are medically well detailed why hasn't a dental comparison been done for those `missing men` ? I can see the difficulty at the end of the War as no-one quite knew who was missing, but now using a combination of these files and the CWGC rolls would it not be possible to find not only Anthony Corkhill but some of the other unfortunate souls with `No Known Grave` ?

As for the MoD no response are they genuinely looking this time? Or simply ignoring me? Moneys on the latter I`m afraid as no acknowledgement was received by their FOI people. :(

Jim

I was told the 'Medical Details' were a few chest ex-rays, hence why they would look at individual requests and release those that don't have them. I've not heard of them containing dental records although I'm happy to be proven wrong. Either way they should be opened. The positives of what might be achieved clearly outweighs the negatives of what these records may reveal. Would someone really care if they discovered a relative who died over 70 years ago had tooth decay or a chest infection?

I would love to see a couple of examples of these files to see if they actually contain anything of use.

hi all.
Drew. there is the possibility that the reluctance to publish could be related to the ''Cause of Death'' if the circumstances were, shall we say ''unusual''. mention has been made in this thread to the habits of an S.S. officer Dix.


ivor

That won't be it. I have loads of War Crimes files that contain photographs, some of them name the Air Crew remains exhumed after the war and show bullet holes in the skull. One (which freaked me out a bit when it fell out of an envelope) even contained the ID disc of a Guards officer executed in Italy. The disc was taken from his dead body later by a villager who witnessed the murder and it found it's way to the investigation file.

hi.
Thanks Drew. as you say, you have War Crime Files which by their nature will be fairly detailed for they would form part of a prosecution. I am not sure that the files Jim is referring to would be that detailed.
With War Crime files we would know we were dealing with murders, so the evidence, photo's etc are bound to be fairly graphic. As a trainee cop in the late 60's this type of file was used with some of the lectures.
But for those deaths not subject to the above then it may come as a shock to some to find that the death of a relative may not have been what they thought. The whole purpose of this thread is to try and establish the where and how and why, when Anthony Corkhill was alive on 27.5.40 and thought to not be seriously wounded,then Dead. on 29th.now we know of Sgt Griffith and the KORR man Dead on 29th in Calonne. In the Hospital???? very possible. if so then Very Possibly Murdered, and No One held responsible.maybe not what people would like to find out.


ivor

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drew5233

I was told the 'Medical Details' were a few chest ex-rays, hence why they would look at individual requests and release those that don't have them. I've not heard of them containing dental records although I'm happy to be proven wrong. Either way they should be opened. The positives of what might be achieved clearly outweighs the negatives of what these records may reveal. Would someone really care if they discovered a relative who died over 70 years ago had tooth decay or a chest infection?

I would love to see a couple of examples of these files to see if they actually contain anything of use.

---

Hello Drew,

The reply I received stated `medically detailed` I `assumed` perhaps wrongly that `German` medically detailed would perhaps be thorough ,complete with regard to every detail; not superficial or partial and contain amongst other things dental records I certainly didn't think it related to just a few x-rays there`s no point in closing such a file is there?
Trying to find a lead has been frustrating ,no one wants to help and the feeling is they would rather we went away I think its not through any hidden agenda simply to those we speak too its a 9-5 job nothing else and it happened a long time ago and at the end of the day they genuinely have no idea what we want and nor do they really care.
What we have found is there are post mortem records in Private hands and there were additional post mortems carried out by the War Office in 44-46 this has had to be dragged out of official sources, the enquiry into the mass grave at St Venant which the CWGC adviser denied existed despite it being on their website! Why transport 90 bodies out of Town from the bridge to the mass grave when the cemetery nearby had provided the battalions HQ ?
The casualty list with the Q reference, what`s the significance of Q80 is it an unsubstantiated report of Pte Corkhill`s death enough to give a date of death but not enough to identify a last resting place or falling short of an explaination to the family. No enquiry in the Missing Men File `DEAD` its definite. but how were they sure ? Is the Missing Men File complete by the Index it is ? Anthony`s will from his paybook how was it at the MoD if Anthony and presumably his paybook were lost?
No record of Anthony being taken prisoner, no record of Anthony receiving treatment Why? I thought the answer may have been in the German unknown files perhaps for May 29th 1940? If they didn't know it was Anthony then they would not have him recorded that would have cleared up the fact there was no record? When the SS entered the hospital in St Venant and began their own cleansing (M.Faivre) what are we to think? Perhaps Anthony was cleansed?
I know Ivor has long supported the idea that Anthony may have been amongst those buried behind the school at Calonne sur Lys it is possible, very possible! However Anthony is on the Canal Bank his injuries according to RSM Goddard not (in his opinion) too bad, yet the German Guards assess him as not been able to move over rough terrain, if he was picked up by German Field Ambulance where would they have taken him? Locally to be assessed before moving him on to a Hospital? Remember he died TWO days later, where and what happened in those two days ? Lets not forget Pte Walt died on the 29th May 1940 the same day as Anthony ,two days after he had pleaded for help himself bleeding from wounds termed by Sgt McLean as `fatal` If we find where Syd died would we find Anthony`s fate? Remember Syd is buried next to an unknown? That unknown who the CWGC told us they held no information on but they doubted it was Anthony Corkhill because (despite holding no info) they knew was a Corporal!!
So many questions ,so few answers but the answers lie somewhere. Despite not holding any information on Anthony Corkhill it appears his CWGC Memorial entry online has been prepped for `Additional Information`???

http://i.imgur.com/bwZ9IZH.jpg



Jim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vori101

hi.
But for those deaths not subject to the above then it may come as a shock to some to find that the death of a relative may not have been what they thought. The whole purpose of this thread is to try and establish the where and how and why, when Anthony Corkhill was alive on 27.5.40 and thought to not be seriously wounded,then Dead. on 29th.now we know of Sgt Griffith and the KORR man Dead on 29th in Calonne. In the Hospital???? very possible. if so then Very Possibly Murdered, and No One held responsible.maybe not what people would like to find out.
ivor

---

There is no evidence, not even slight, that Sgt Griffiths was murdered at the hospital in Calonne, or indeed even died at the hospital. The dates of death on CWGC sites is often out of sync with other official records, understandable with the vast amount of detail they were working with after the war. This has proved to be the case during the Kohima project that we ran last year, so although it states Griffiths died on the 29th. The earlier Kew File that I posted suggests he died on the 25th May and this is compelling. Why?

Elements of 1RWF (which was now split) were in Calonne on the 24/25 in strength. Indeed on several occasions sub-units moved towards St Floris and were then forced to return to Calonne. It's a fair bet if you died on the battlefield anywhere between Calonne/St Floris over this period, it was highly likely your comrades would have left you! Hence a burial at Calonne.

Hi all.
I thought i knew a bit about what was going on in St Venant.Wrong. Drew. i have been reading the Post in WW2 Talk of the 20. Nov 11. entitled '' 6th Battalion Kings Own Royal Regiment''. Very interesting. IT confirms what i thought that they were approaching from the East.I had come across references to 223 Anti Tank Co. but i had not come across Any Reference to a KORR unit, B Co, any where near St Venant ( Page 313..Units in France and Belgium) which you had copied into the post.the problem here is there are very few dates in the book, i can only assume this was 23rd. However on the same day from the W.D. of 2/5 West Yorkshire they were withdrawing from Robecq. D Co to St Floris and A Co to Calonne. It records the withdrawal of KORR through the Yorks and Lancs, a probable error. Into this we also have , in the evening of 23rd, 1 RWF with it's carriers. approaching from the east. This causes me a problem. However 2/5WY handed over St Floris to 2 DLI.
Now Al.I accept your comment about evidence. there is No Direct Evidence but there is possible Circumstantial Evidence for this. Unless we Know if Sgt Griffiths Was wounded or not we can not rule it out.
The other problem we have here is. By the 27th the fighting in the area had ceased, the front had moved on, any men left in the area were probably PoW's. We can infer from the comments to RSM Goddard that certain types of wounded were going to be treated in the Field hospital.this is why i wish to know if he was wounded.
Oh i think i was wrong with the name of the S.S. man it could have been LEX.


ivor

Quote:

---

Oh i think i was wrong with the name of the S.S. man it could have been LEX.

---

I know that ******* - he murdered some BEF chaps in Nieppe Forest. One survived and escaped and got a MM for his troubles. His Escape and Evasion report has a sketch map of were the murders took place and I visited the area a few years ago. Lex was killed on the Eastern Front in 1944 so the investigation was dropped once he was found to be dead. He was with the SS Deutschland in 1940.

Update;- No acknowledgment from the MoD for the FOI request ,No reply within the statutory period. A courtesy email to the first MoD contact asking for an update has also been met with silence.The sheer arrogance is beyond belief.
On a more regrettable note Mr Brian Sim who helped me considerably with his expert knowledge of the relevant files at Kew and advised and provided so much to the search for Anthony Corkhill has died after a long illness. My condolences to Brian`s family.

Best wishes

Jim

Hi TC
You'll be relieved to know that the farm Isn't a bingo hall or a restaurant.
I think i may have found something for you. I read the diary of Captain Cyril Mosley Townsend 2nd Bn DLI. Madam Boulets Farm (Farm Boulet) was positioned on the crossroad junction of Rue De Hurtevent and Rue De Bas Hamel. I checked this and their is a couple of buildings there.one of them a farm.
I hope this helps.

Simon

If this is correct then the farm was in the Royal Berks area only a few hundred yards from there HQ in Bas Hamel and about half a mile from where Dads section was hit by friendly fire and his mate killed.