saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

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26-07-2012, 01:18
Baconwallah

Re: saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

An Aid Post at Calonne would have belonged to a different part of 3 Pz, Ivor. Can't rule it out, but it's unlikely. Equally unlikely is the Aid Post at the Boulet farm, in an entirely different sector of the battlefield and belonging to SS Germania instead of 3 Pz. We should look at St Venant itself, and the area to the south of it, near the l'Epinette bridge on either side of the la Bassee canal, to find the Aid Post or (more likely) the Clearing Station or whatever it may have been. I'm hoping that the Volksbund may have information pertinent to the case. But that will probably take some time.

John
26-07-2012, 01:49
ivor43

Re: saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

 Hi again.
Interesting. You say that Anthony was not drawing pay at HQ on 12^th May. I assume you mean 2DLI HQ. Where were the units at that time, do we know?
Is there a possibility that at some time before the 12^th RSM Goddard and Anthony could have been reassigned to Brigade HQ.
Would this have taken them off 2DLI’s HQ payroll and put them on Brigade pay.
If for instance the Brigade HQ RSM ( Do they have one ) had been killed sometime prior to 12^th if RSM Goddard was the next senior RSM would he not have been moved up.
As we have a map showing Brigade HQ at Calonne it could put him back to the East of St Floris when Bgd HQ was forced to retreat.
Hmmm interesting.
Again thoughts please.

Ivor.
26-07-2012, 02:39
ivor43

Re: saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

John.
Would you consider the action that appears to have taken place to the east of St Floris to be Bgd HQ trying to extricate themselves from Calonne with A Co RWF and the DLI Co providing cover.

ivor
26-07-2012, 09:54
Baconwallah

Re: saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

Ivor, on the 25th Bde HQ relocated from Calonne through Merville to le Touquet, just north of Haverskerque. Cover was provided by 6 KORR, which was a pioneer bn belonging to Army Troops.

John
26-07-2012, 14:28
ivor43

Re: saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

 Mornin all.
Further thoughts on the Brigade idea.
If there is a possibility that, from some time prior to 12^th, RSM Goddard and Anthony were moved to Brigade HQ, and, taking Bob’s idea of an ‘O Group’ being formed.

Would a senior RSM be part of this Group. And would there be D/R’s attached.
I am just wondering, if Goddard had been trying to keep Anthony out of sight as much as possible because of the ‘Dog Tag’ problem,
Then i would guess that they were trying to cover it up till they got back to UK. Anthony could then just pick them up from where ever he left them.

The move to Brigade would make this more difficult. And, if, Goddard was attached to the ‘O’ Group, virtually impossible, unless he requested Anthony as a DR.

Teecee do you know if there is possibly any family connection between Anthony’s parents and Goddard. Or had Anthony’s father served with Goddard previously. As I am puzzled as to why Goddard is doing this? It seems very odd. This was a serious disciplinary offense and Goddard is condoning it. Strange.

John. Just read your latest post. You don’t half make things easy,(sigh) my brain hasn’t been this busy in years. Which is good, I was getting a bit sluggish.

So if Brigade moved N on 25^th would this make the formation of an ‘O’ Group more likely. So what I had already written above still applies.

ivor
26-07-2012, 15:14
ivor43

Re: saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

teecee
my question in the above is just a general interest question. if there is nothing obvious then i dont think there is any need to dig further.

ivor
26-07-2012, 15:50
ivor43

Re: saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

John.
i am at my local library at the moment so i can dig a bit.I have been searching the list of 3 panzer (Post 62) and there is no ref to a field aid post it only mentions in HQ Motor pool, 2 x3ton Ambulances.This might appear to suggest that Aid posts/ Hospitals were provided by some other organization. while i was there i also looked at the Bridge units. page 14 shows 1 Pz pioneer Co. had - 1 bridge platoon comprising - 1 Pz 11 (SD KFZ 121)and 4 armored Bridge Layers on Mk iv Chassis.
Page 15 details a bridging train.
If we recall the Diary of Major Townsend he states 'a tank went onto the bridge' could this have been the tank attached to this platoon,OK i am back east. but it may explain the ref to a tank. while at ST Venant the account refers to several tanks.Still digging.
26-07-2012, 18:53
Baconwallah

Re: saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

Ivor, my friend, each battalion or battalion sized unit of the Wehrmacht had its own medical unit with a doctor and sufficient staff to man an aid post (Truppenverbandplatz). Stretcher bearers would be provided by the companies. Exactly as in the British Army.

At divisional level there were two medical companies (Sanitätskompanien) which could each form a Casualty Clearing Station (Hauptverbandplatz) with one or two surgical teams and short stay beds. These companies also had a pharmacy and dental component. A real field hospital (Feldlazarett) was added at divisional level until 1942, when it was transferred to Army Troops.

O Groups to the best of my knowledge did not include RSMs, not did Brigade HQs. RSMs did not have dispatch riders.

I do admire and enjoy your new theory of the kindly RSM, although it's not quite as good as the panzer commander taking the night off.

John
26-07-2012, 19:06
ivor43

Re: saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

 John.
There was no reference in the list other than I said, I will have to take your word for it, but I find it odd that they would not include such facilities.
Now with regard to my kindly RSM . I know that they are not usually of that nature. But why is he apparently sticking his neck on a block for a Pte unless he may be doing a favour for the parents.

Ok I left myself open to a Fusillade of LMG , HMG and whatever because I did not realise the significance of what I had written until I got home again.
Of Course the tank that was attached to the bridge unit was not there as an offensive weapon it would have been for Armoured reconnaissance its weapons used as defence. So once it crossed this bridge of course it went North. Not to attack, apart from taking out a M/G post. But to reconnoitre the Old River Bed for a suitable crossing place.

John.mon ami moi pont de l’est , tres possible?

Ivor.
26-07-2012, 20:47
Baconwallah

Re: saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

Yves, mon cher ami, bien que le pont de l'est soit possible techniquement, quoique à peine, historiquement c'est un absurdité. Je regrette beaucoup.

Jean

Well, you asked for it...

Re your list, I have just checked the official German Army Handbook published by the War Office in 1943 or so. It does not mention any medical troops at all. Doesn't mean the Wehrmacht had no medical services. My info comes from a German manual I didn't even know I had until your questions forced me into the darkest and dustiest corners of my library (still coughing). You'll have to take my word for it.

Five Pz Divs (1. 2. 3. 5 and 10) had a bridging component with 4 Pz IV Brückenleger tanks (of which 20 had been built). The bridge was 10 metres long, give or take an inch or two, and for the 20 m wide Lys canal three of these bridges would have been necessary - if the canal was shallow enough to allow their use, as the supports were only about 3 metres long. Since a bridge across the Lys canal would only have led to the old Lys bed, another watery obstacle for which then only one bridge would have been available, I consider their use here extremely unlikely, the more so since two excellent and barely defended bridges were available at Merville and St Venant.

On a more practical note, Tony has now applied for his uncle's service record.

John

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