saint venant 1940-------farm boulet

hi all.
John. I must admit it had slipped my mind about D Co. But i not sure that they fit.
The DoD differ one between 25-27 another 28th the 3rd 29th. But i am not sure how it works.
we know that on 23rd 2/5 W.Y. sent a Co to Calonne where they were holding off the German unit, i suspect the same unit that D Co ran into. but would wounded be left in a Civy Hospital in a place under attack.
The German Field Aid Post was not operational until the British pulled out on 26th?. But i suppose it would depend on the severity of the wounds, of course they may have died in the Civy Hospital and been nothing to do with the Aid Post. i'm not sure about this. With the Service numbers would it be possible to link them to a particular Co. That could possibly help. All the record says is 1Btn.


ivor

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vori101

The DoD differ one between 25-27 another 28th the 3rd 29th. But i am not sure how it works.

---

Some probably died of wounds on the following days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vori101

but would wounded be left in a Civy Hospital in a place under attack.

---

Where else could they leave them, under the circumstances. Calonne was not attacked until the 27th or 28th.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vori101

With the Service numbers would it be possible to link them to a particular Co. That could possibly help.

---

I wish!

John

mornin John.
I was trying to fit some known casualties into the picture to reinforce the ''reasonable cause'' argument so it probably was not that important,it would have been nice ,Oh well,,never mind.
Oh and the last part was definitely written with much more hope than expectation.

cheers

ivor

Further from my post regarding Syd Walt also killed/Died on the 29th May 1940 Sgt Major Mclane remembered in an interview that ...Pte Walt was one of two men seriously wounded just prior to the `Everyman for himself` order.Sgt McLane recalled he was wounded in the lower body and streams of blood were visable on his Khaki uniform to Sgt McLane it was obvious he was finished and despite his pleas the poor lad was ignored and had to wait until the stretcher bearers came along with RSM Metcalfe....Pte Walt was in Sgt McLanes platoon at the time but was not a regular member having been sent from elsewhere to shore up the platoon.
Shortly afterwards the order Everyman for himself was given in which the survivors had to run the gauntlet of German fire across an open field.Bearing this in mind I doubt Pte Walt ,now with the stretcher bearers would have made the dash so I am assuming he was found by the Germans and died later?

Best


Jim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verrieres

Hello ,
You all have been very busy indeed and now you have me thinking tell me what you think of this
During my research into the field grave lists a lot of people will have wondered why bother as Anthony is unknown so will not feature.The aim of the research has been to secure the buriel place of another 2 DLI casualty who died of wounds on the same day as mentioned Syd Walt died on May 29th he does not feature in any of the known field graves.Would it be fair to assume he has died in a hospital? Following his death he has been taken to the cemetery direct? If the German War Graves Commision has a record of Syd Walt would they have a record of other unknown soldiers buried the same day you see there are no missing unknowns from the Royal Berks or Royal Welch for the 29th May 1940. Whilst I have to check the Royal Artillery Unit present could this be a way forward?

Best

Jim

---

A very plausible scenario, Jim, for Syd as well as for Anthony.

John

Evening all.
as we know that both HQ's were in and close by the St Venant Cemetery. what would be the possibility that they could have been buried directly in the cemetery and therefore not in a field grave.
just a thought.


ivor

It's certainly a possibility, Ivor. There are currently 40 unidentified bodies buried there, but does that number include men buried in the cemetery at the time of the fighting? We'll probably never know, unless the MoD and CWGC open their books.

John

John.
We may, possibly, be able to get a clue from an other incident.
the 7 RWF lads that died on 23rd, at St Floris, were these buried direct in the cemetery. If they are not included in Jim's field graves records then it would suggest that they were not subject to the 41/42 clearances. they were already there. another thought that might support this is,as far as i am aware these are the only burials in St Floris, so it might be assumed that all field burials where taken to St Venant for processing and re burial, except for those already in cemetery's.
with regard to the 40 unknowns in St Venant, it might be interesting to know if Jim's list also has 40 if not then the difference must have already been there.
interesting.


ivor

A cemetery being available, it was no doubt used with gratitude. But this being true for 1st RWF burying their own does not necessarily make it true for the Germans burying enemies.

Jim´s field grave records, as far as I know, comprise the Bas-Hamel page (from the Rodgers book) and the Robecq mass grave list (from me). They do not represent the complete listing of all field graves in the area, so it is impossible to draw conclusions from them.

John

Hi Guys.
Maybe i am being too optimistic again but, surely the field grave lists are just that,lists of persons buried at a specific location.and would correspond to the files prepared at the autopsies.
I would have expected the location of the grave to be reflected in the Title of the file,eg:-
St Venant/Location of Grave(map Ref)/Body No in grave/ Name or unknown.
anything less would not really make much sense.
does a list of the 41/42 clearance files exist, if so can it be accessed.
I realise that 41/42 may not have found All graves and i suspect that some have never been found, but it seems to appear that the people we are interested in could have been in place from May 1940 or should have been identified in 41/42.


ivor

Ivor, what we have to deal with are lists (the two we know of, anyway) with names and numbers (recorded by the French so not necessarily correct), sometimes confusingly entered twice, or just the word 'inconnu' (unknown, and in that case it's easy). Some names have been struck through and replaced by other names/numbers (again, not necessarily correct), or not, as the case may be, and it is always a pleasant surprise to be able to identify a man from the information provided.

For example, Capitaine Rarker Terver turned out to be Capt Parker-Jervis, 2eme Lieut Edwart Alan was identified as 2/Lt Frank Alan Ewart-James, and Arthur Buck is in the same list twice, but with slightly different numbers (4435503 and the correct 4453403).

Grave locations are generally given as Champ Walle Paul ("in Paul Walle's field") or Cour Heudre Etienne ("in Etienne Heudre's courtyard"), the named farming gentlemen long dead and forgotten. Map references are for sissies.

What makes sense and what we have to work with are often two completely different things. Regrettably.

John

John,
my friend, i thought you were going to describe something difficult, we can do difficult standing on our heads. but in this case impossible comes to mind, which may take a bit longer.
Oh, i hope you are not French, as i am becoming very,very Teed Off with certain of our Cross Channel neighbours. So much so that i think we should start a campaign to re instate Madam La Guillotine.
However in my 69 years i have seldom had anything easy and i guess that aint goin to change any time soon.
Anyway,joking apart, thanks for the info, i can appreciate the problem.


ivor

Hello Ivor,
What John states is very true we have two sets of lists but this cannot be all there was as we have found none in the vicinity of the St Venant bridge,unless as you suggested they were buried in the graveyard?(M.Faivre does say that many dead were collected during the battle itself) The number of unknowns at St Venant we know is 40 but we know,and John will correct me if I`m wrong, that the unknowns or inconnus on the Bas Hamel lists number 26 (ish) whilst the large grave according to the CWGC (which they of course do not know about despite it being on their web page!) held 90 graves in total named and unknown,which was a surprise as our lists including unknowns show 64??? Obviously some were identified later.
Add to these the others at St Pol ,Merville and Haverskerque and we have quite a puzzle. M.Faivre recalled there were;-
37 field/temp graves in St Venant
15 in St Floris
and 34 at Robecq.
Final Resting place buriels;-
176 rest at St Venant
9 at Robecq,
22 at Calonne sur Lys,
7 at St Floris
and 40 at Haverskerque
Total 254 not included in this were the unknowns who died in hospitals and those who were fished out of the canal his estimate for a final total was around 300 (St Venant-Robecq Pg 74)
You are right about those co-ordinates though otherwise there would be no structure to the autopsy records...or is that why we struggle to find answers?

Best
Jim

Just had a quick look at CALONNE-SUR-LA-LYS COMMUNAL CEMETERY according to the CWGC there are 11 buriels here in fact there are 25 including two from WW1.
They are laid out as follows ;-S. Barnes (Warrant Officer (Pilot) Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 198 Sqdn. Age: 22 Date of Death: 02/10/1944 Service No: 1430715)
– T. Buckley (Fusilier Royal Welch Fusiliers 1st Bn. Age: 27 Date of Death: between 25/05/1940 and 27/05/1940 Service No: 813905)
– Unknown – Unknown – W. Roberts (Private King's Own Royal Regiment (Lancaster) 6th Bn. Age: 36 Date of Death: 29/05/1940 Service No: 3711938)– E. Humphreys (Fusilier Royal Welch Fusiliers 1st Bn. Age: 21 Date of Death: 28/05/1940 Service No: 4196969)
– J. M. Durston (Lance Corporal Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders 6th Bn. Age: 21 Date of Death: 27/05/1940 Service No: 4274676)

Unknown – Unknown (Machester Rgt) - Unknown (Machester Rgt) - Unknown – Unknown –
E. Pomphrett ( Royal Northumberland Fusiliers 8th Bn. Age: 20 Date of Death: 24/05/1940 Service No: 6915538)- Unknown – Unknown - Unknown (Field Artillery) – J. S. Gay (Royal Scots 1st Bn. Age: 26 Date of Death: 24/05/1940 Service No: 3053470)– C. Sever (Private Manchester Regiment 2nd Bn. Age: 20 Date of Death: between 26/05/1940 and 27/05/1940 Service No: 2571860)
–Unknown – Unknown

T. Rogers (Indian Lieutenant Supply and Transport Corps Date of Death: 13/02/1915) - D. Griffiths ( Serjeant Royal Welch Fusiliers 1st Bn. Age: 27 Date of Death: 29/05/1940 Service No: 4188082)- Unknown - Unknown


R. C. Doidge (Captain Lancashire Fusiliers 17th Bn. Age: 26 Date of Death: 02/03/1916)
According to M.Faivre 5 men died at the hospital here and were buried as unknowns after their tags were removed.


Best

Jim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verrieres

Just had a quick look at CALONNE-SUR-LA-LYS COMMUNAL CEMETERY according to the CWGC there are 11 buriels here in fact there are 25 including two from WW1.

---

You're both right, Jim. There are 11 identified casualties (listed on the CWGC website) but 25 including the unknowns.

John

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Baconwallah

You're both right, Jim. There are 11 identified casualties (listed on the CWGC website) but 25 including the unknowns.

John

---

Hello John
I was`nt disputing them this time,just stating the actual total for anyone who is interested.:-). The CWGC are very forth coming about this one which backs up M.Faivres reports to a certain extent.

Quote:

---

Historical Information

During the withdrawal of the British Expeditionary Force to Dunkirk in May 1940, there was heavy fighting in the area around Calonne-sur-la-Lys, and most of the inhabitants left the area. The school was used by the Germans as an aid post, and British soldiers who died at Calonne, either in battle or of wounds while prisoners, were buried by the Germans in the field behind the school. In 1942 the local people moved these graves into the communal cemetery, but in the meantime the rough grave markers had in many instances become illegible. The identity discs and personal possessions had mostly been removed before burial, so that in 1942 few of the dead could be identified.

The communal cemetery now contains 23 Commonwealth burials of the Second World War, 14 of which are unidentified. There are also two burials from the First World War. CWGC Debt of Honour

---

Best

Jim

Morning.
Jim welcome to Calonne.
I have been here for a while. So if i may explain what i think is going on here.
First, the German Field Post could not have been in operation prior to the 26 th at the earliest, therefore some of these deaths must have taken place in the Local Hospital which may, possibly, have resulted in burial in the local cemetery.
Second. there are No deaths after the 29th.
third. Is there some significance to 29th. There are 2 deaths of Known men on his date, and Anthony if he had been taken there.
fourth. It is reported that 5 men had their ID Tags removed in Hospital. By Medical Staff ? would seem unlikely.

So what is going on.
The following possibility ?
By 29th the German Front line has advanced well beyond the Lys and the Field Post is required to move. but there is a problem, there are a number of British wounded which would need transportation.
We know that there was a particularly nasty piece of murdering S.S. Trash operating in the area. Did he solve the problem. and remove the ID at the same time.
As i said previously, i think we need to look at the situation here in a whole lot more detail, if possible, as i still think this is where we will find the answer.

Oh and why am i not surprised that CWGC are more forthcoming about Calonne than St Venant. Sigh, may be i am just a cynical old sod.



ivor

hi.
Looking at the graves in Robecq.
1 W Yorks DoD 21/5/40.
8 RWF DoD between 23rd and 25th/5/40
It would appear that these are original 1940 burials, not the result of 41/42 clearances.


ivor

hi again.
Jim, in your post ( 493 ) you quote M. Faivre referring to temp/field graves and FINAL RESTING PLACE BURIALS.
Now if, as i believe, the 9 at Robecq and the 7 at St Floris are original 1940 Burials, then does M. Faivre mean there are 176 1940 burials in St Venant and 22 in Calonne. while that may make some sense for St Venant it does not really fit Calonne. Very Odd....



Ivor

My database shows 22 burials of May 1940 casualties in Calonne-sur-la-Lys, 8 of whom could be identified.

In St Venant I have 175 records (probably missed one).

John

John.
I may have confused this a bit.
What i mean is, original Time of Death Burials. With the Deaths in Calonne at least 3 died before the German hospital could have been operating so there is a possibility that they would have been buried in the cemetery not the school field so would presumably not have been part of the 41/2 clearance. This is what i would understand as Final Resting Place Burials,Meaning not moved later. ( Could be wrong ).
But we know that a number were buried in the School Field and moved in 41/2 . so just slightly confused. But thats nothing new. :)))




ivor

Hello Ivor,
I think I caused the initial confusion.Final resting place refers to where they lie today irrespective of previous buriels and exumations.Sorry

Best


Jim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vori101

John.
I may have confused this a bit.
What i mean is, original Time of Death Burials. With the Deaths in Calonne at least 3 died before the German hospital could have been operating so there is a possibility that they would have been buried in the cemetery not the school field so would presumably not have been part of the 41/2 clearance. This is what i would understand as Final Resting Place Burials,Meaning not moved later. ( Could be wrong ).
But we know that a number were buried in the School Field and moved in 41/2 . so just slightly confused. But thats nothing new. :)))




ivor

---

Jim
Thanks for that. Am on holiday in Cyprus at the moment and dont have full access. be in touch more next week.


ivor

Hello,
I spent a couple of hours in Durham City this morning and managed to visit the records office there.This place holds the documents previously held at the DLI museum.I found one mention of Anthony Corkhill in the Non Effective Discharge book for 1940.The entry simply reads;-
4449147 CORKHILL.A, PTE. DIED IN FRANCE 29th MAY 1940.

Nothing new, simply confirms really that Anthony was known to have died on this date,not believed missing,not believed killed ...died 29th May 1940.Who witnessed this? Who reported his death to the Army?


Jim

Hmm by that Jim it would appear that someone may have been present when he died it may have been another prisoner and was reported when he returned to England or maybe a French national or even the Germans through the red cross

Hi all.
after a nice sunny and relaxing week in Cyprus, now ready for battle again.
Jim, Final Resting Places. Ok i accept your explanation, but i am still puzzled.In your post #493 you quote 15 temp/field graves in St Floris and 34 in Robecq. But CWGC have only 7 in St Floris and 9 in Robecq. all of which appear to have died prior to the German advance. Would i be right in thinking that these could have been buried in the local cemetery by their units and the burials fully recorded so there would have been no need to exhume them in 41/2. this means that 8 of the St Floris and 25 of the Robecq burials were moved somewhere else, St Venant ?
At Calonne you quote 22 although John says 25. but that is not a problem, we know at least 3 must have died prior to the Field Post starting operation, again these may have been buried in the Cemetery and recorded. This would indicate 22 either in the School field or in field graves in the area. I believe the only way to solve this is to find out if a 41/2 list exists for Calonne.
Would it have been kept by the Mayors office or would it be with MoD/CWGC which is where i would expect it to be, they may be more helpful here than St Venant.


ivor

Calonne: 2 - Great War, 22 - May 1940, 1 - RAF Oct 1940, so 25 in all.

John

Thanks John.No great problem it just means revising figures, which just might be interesting.
So we go back to 22 burials.we have 11 known burials and have just discounted 3 knowns 2 WW1 and the RAF guy. then we have 8, three of which may have died before the Germans arrived, 2 on 24th and one between 25/27 so may be already in the cemetery. leaving 5.one on 27,one on 28 and 2 on 29 with one between 26/27, which where most probably in the school field.
There are 11 unknown and 3 whose unit was known (14) we are told that 5 had their ID removed in Hospital so we are down to 9. Now if it could be possible to establish if there were any field graves,other than the school field, in the area then, in theory, it should be possible to establish if any other unknowns died at the hospital. Possibly Anthony if he was taken there.
Although this seems complex it would seem to indicate that there could be as few as 10 or so graves in the school field. A list would be very handy.



ivor

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vori101

Hi all.
after a nice sunny and relaxing week in Cyprus, now ready for battle again.
Jim, Final Resting Places. Ok i accept your explanation, but i am still puzzled.In your post #493 you quote 15 temp/field graves in St Floris and 34 in Robecq. But CWGC have only 7 in St Floris and 9 in Robecq. all of which appear to have died prior to the German advance. Would i be right in thinking that these could have been buried in the local cemetery by their units and the burials fully recorded so there would have been no need to exhume them in 41/2. this means that 8 of the St Floris and 25 of the Robecq burials were moved somewhere else, St Venant ?
At Calonne you quote 22 although John says 25. but that is not a problem, we know at least 3 must have died prior to the Field Post starting operation, again these may have been buried in the Cemetery and recorded. This would indicate 22 either in the School field or in field graves in the area. I believe the only way to solve this is to find out if a 41/2 list exists for Calonne.
Would it have been kept by the Mayors office or would it be with MoD/CWGC which is where i would expect it to be, they may be more helpful here than St Venant.


ivor

---

Hello Ivor,
The figures are not mine as I stated I quoted them from M.Faivres account he is the man on the ground so to speak.These were field graves not proper buriels as field graves I would not think these would have been directly into a cemetery the term field grave is simply a `battlefield grave` who was buried where and from which original location are contained on lists.M.Faivre has one,as do the MoD as both were quoted in the book `The Search for Tom`that was why Tom Rodgers was given a `believed to be`headstone because both lists differed somewhat.Does the CWGC hold a list ?? Thats a million dollar question and one which only the CWGC can answer...but they wo`nt!
The CWGC do not even list where the unknowns lie we have had to use other sources to determine their positions within the St Venant cemetery the other cemeteries are proving a little harder to source.
Dave ,Tony is at this time attempting to locate a possible Q Form detailing Pte Corkhills demise failing that a prisoners questionaire? The Red Cross hold nothing apart from the enquiry to RSM Goddard. The Germans have no record of him.Did a Frenchman witness his death ?Possibly but how would he know Anthony ?Tony believes he was`nt wearing a Dog Tag and the DLI had only been in St Venant a couple of days.Somewhere there is a statement detailing the last hours of Anthonys life..we have to continue to believe that .


Jim

Morning all
First, Jim, i have a great deal of faith in the outcome of this, we will succeed.
Second. if you think that my mathematical musings of last night were the ramblings of an old man who had lost his marbles, maybe, but it has proved an interesting exercise for me at least.
I have come to the conclusion that something doe's not fit.
In order to reorganise my marbles i ask you to stick with me on this it will make sense in the end.
Ok, the German Aid Post/ School, do we know exactly where it was, possibly not.
In the UK there was a practice of naming a school for the particular area ,like New Road Primary or similar.Is there a possibility that there could have been a Robecq Rd school on the edge of Calonne, this is a rural community so there may be a possibility. so maybe the Aid Post was out here.
Speculation, well possibly not.
Right, Jim, early in the thread we spoke of Soldier 6. who i believe fitted the description of Anthony' wounds. who i also seem to recall was found in a grave in a field at the side of the Robecq Rd. Could This Have Been The School Field ?????
Even the number Soldier 6 may be significant. We know that 5 men had their ID removed in the Hospital could Soldier 6 be a man who did not have ID to start with,Anthony.
Do you know how many bodies were in this grave. i would expect al least 11.




ivor

Hello Ivor,

John may have the name of the school I assumed there was only one to be honest.Soldier 6 is simply Case No 6 in the War Crimes Files nothing at all to do with how many bodies were in a grave etc.Sorry. In relation to the exumations perhaps this will interest you from the CWGC

Quote:

---

During the withdrawal of the British Expeditionary Force to Dunkirk in May 1940, there was heavy fighting in the area around Calonne-sur-la-Lys, and most of the inhabitants left the area. The school was used by the Germans as an aid post, and British soldiers who died at Calonne, either in battle or of wounds while prisoners, were buried by the Germans in the field behind the school. In 1942 the local people moved these graves into the communal cemetery, but in the meantime the rough grave markers had in many instances become illegible. The identity discs and personal possessions had mostly been removed before burial, so that in 1942 few of the dead could be identified.

The communal cemetery now contains 23 Commonwealth burials of the Second World War, 14 of which are unidentified. There are also two burials from the First World War.

---

Just googled schools and found two modern ones addresses are ;-
141 rue du Bois

62350 Calonne-sur-la-Lys

62350 Calonne-sur-la-Lys
and
178 rue du Bois

62350 Calonne-sur-la-Lys

62350 Calonne-sur-la-Lys

Rue du Bois isnt too far away from Rue de Robecq but I do not know if these are the school(s) in question.

Jim

Soldier No. 6 to the best of my knowledge was buried in the Robecq Road mass grave. That was to the south of St Venant, nowhere near Calonne.

John

I wonder if anyone can advise who actually holds cemetery buriel records? After yet another unsuccesful enquiry with the CWGC (unrelated to this search) in which they got my name,the casualty details including awards all totally wrong in their reply, I have now come to the conclusion they are either deliberately misleading people or totally incompetant in their admin work.(I cannot fault their horticultural staff who are 1st Class).
The records in question were produced for every War Cemetery they also show the co=ordinates of field/temp graves despite what we are being told.Hopefully the image linked below is visible and you can get an idea of what these records hold.Go to the link and click on the left side Misidentified Graves

http://www.jackclegg3.webspace.virginmedia.com/


Jim

Hello,

Just a quick update and to let everyone know this search is continuing.Behind the scenes Tony has to date had no luck with the researcher he hired so in the meanwhile I have spoken with John regarding a proposal we received in respect of composing a letter appealing to the MoD to release to the Corkhill family any `additional` records they may hold covering the final two days of Anthony Corkhills life .This letter was to be backed up by a similar letter to the Corkhills MP asking for their support in their search. We have contacted Tony and he has agreed to this course of action.
The letter is prepared,the evidence (such as we have) is copied,the letter to the MP is completed.Today Tony will send off these documents and ............ we hope and we wait.
Best Wishes

Jim

hi all.
Thanks Jim, i am in full agreement with this course of action and i hope it brings results.
Sadly, however, i have found info that would lead me to believe that nothing will be found. But i will not say any more about this, yet.


ivor

I too wish you luck with this however i have reservations as Ivor has said.

Hello,
After 73 years hope and luck is all we have,nevertheless in the past month or two we have turned up an entry in the DLI Non Effective Book for Anthony `Died in France 29th May 1940`Anthonys `Casualty Card` amended from missing 10/05/40-29/05/1940 to ` Died of Wounds 29th May 1940` and Anthonys service records pension date `29 May 1940`. Sevice Record amendment by the War Office `Dead 29th May 1940`made Oct 41 Letter to the Corkhill Family November 1941 `Died 29th May 1940` bear in mind according to the `official` records Anthony Corkhill was last seen alive on the 27th May 1940 by RSM Goddard this was received by the Red Cross in Oct 41 if this was indeed the last time Anthony was seen alive why is his date of death two days later on all documents? Why did the War Office so meticulous in searching out missing men not even despatch a searcher party for Anthony Corkhill? Because his death is recorded..................someone else bore last witness to Anthonys death will that record have survived ?.......................?

Best

Jim

Hi all.

Jim, your last post has given me some interesting thoughts. Let us start with the ‘’ Missing ‘’ dates. Where actually where 2DLI and the rest of the Bgd on 10/5 /40.
When this was raised some time ago I think I asked if it was possible that he may have been taken off 2DLI and transferred to Bgd.
But now I wonder. It has been suggested that Anthony may have been a DR. Now someone is going to have to put me right on this.
Were DR’s attached to HQ’s, Sigs or units?
If so would they then wear the Uniforms of the unit to which they were then attached ?.
What makes me wonder about this is that we frequently see ‘Unknowns’ with their unit eg Manchester Rgt.
Is there any possibility, therefore that Anthony could be not an unknown 2DLI but an unknown something else.
The DR idea might also explain why Anthony appears to have been away from RSM Goddard.. He may have been away since the 10^th.

Now let us look at Oct 41.
It appears that Anthony’s DoD is accepted as 29.5.40 during Oct. The Red Cross received Goddard’s letter in Oct so it would seem unlikely that he knew of Anthony’s death when he wrote it, but it seems to prove when last seen alive.
But Oct 41 is significant for something else. The Field Grave Clearances.
Under normal circumstances the only persons authorised to sign Death Certificates are Doctors. I assume therefore that one of the purposes of the clearances was to enable a Cert to be signed.
Now we have a puzzle. A body in the ground for 17 months is going to be difficult to ID from any physical remains. The only way will be from ‘Dog Tags’ or personal effects., Anthony had no tags.
Hmmm.
Unless.
If Anthony is already in a Hospital, Calonne, Then there will be a file on him. If his manner of death is as we suspect, then his file can be closed, by a doctor. Died Of Wounds 29/5/1940. and his Burial Place Would Be Known to those who did the clearances in 1941. as I assume the Hospital files would have been made available to those doing the clearance, and I would expect his grave location to have been noted.
However. Although the Hospital report might state the burial position of a known at the time of death , if in 41 the ID could not be Proven , would the person then become an Unknown. hmmm .

ivor

I can answer a couple of your questions Ivor, "Wearing uniforms of unit which detached to " Simlpy put no because the only real difference would be the regimental cap badge and given the pride most soldiers have in there badged regiment changing cap badges without being officially sanctioned ordered and officialy transfered would be highly unlikely (and against Army Regs anyway). It is possible i suppose but highly unlikely

Dispatch riders.
From what Dad tells me and from my own experience generally they would be part of HQ but as has been said before that does not mean they were always at HQ, quite the reverse in fact since the nature of there job means they could be anywhere, anytime, if so ordered. Of course it is posible for a DR to be seconded to Brigader or another Regiment but in my view unlikely since Brigade in particular would have a good complement of DR,s in there own right however it is possible Anrthony was at Brigade on a visit as a DR and was grabbed by an officer or senior rank and ordered to do a job for them.

Cheers now

Dave

I cannot rule anything out of course but the cap badge is a non starter even attached to brigade they would wear their parent regt cap badges.In 1940 the battledress blouse was ,in the main,very plain if Anthony had been an NCO then his stripe(s)would have been very distinct with light infantry units backed with dark green.
The DR for the DLI ferrying messages to and from Brigade was Pte Fred Cottier as Dave points out they were part of Hq Company. We cannot say for sure which Company Anthony was with at the end but we know which ever one he was with it was fighting near the canal because this is where RSM Goddard saw him.
There are no known records of Anthony Corkhill in any hospital,at least not identified as Anthony,the Red Cross checked and so did John with his German contacts.Anthonys death was confirmed in Oct 41 but it appears this was known by the Army as early as June 1940 when the dates 10/05/40-29/05/40 were first given .
Interestingly enough the amendment on his service record reads `DIED OF WOUNDS ON or SINCE 29/05/1940` which confirms even more that someone else,not RSM Goddard,saw Anthony Corkhill after the 27th May 1940. Ivor you are right about the RSM he did`nt know Anthony was dead,I have spoken with his son about this,the mystery of Anthony Corkhill haunted his father until the day he died he had always assumed he was simply in another camp.

Best

Jim