111 rwf

[ivor43]

ok guys.
ancestory has the following.
Ref WO 372/5/199095. William Davis 1 RWF Private 5804.
Also
Ref Wo 372/4/149762 William Clark 1 RWF Private 5804

Errr HMMM ok. ideas would be handy?

sorry that should be the National Archives.


ivor

[Baconwallah]

William Clarke had previously enlisted in 4th???? SW Borderers 31 Mar 1903.
AND again to Special Reserve SW Borderers 11 Apr 1908.
Prior to joining 1st Bat RWF - 1st Sep 1914 in Wrexham.
He's commemorated on Le Touret Memorial.

Can anyone tell me about the fighting on the day he went missing/died?
In his previous two enlistments in the SW Borderers would he have been a regular soldier or Militiaman?

Looks like he enlisted in the 4th (TF) Bn SWB first, for a 5 year period, thenenlisted in the SWB Special Reserve. In other words, first a Territorial, then a Special Reservist. As the Militia was reformed as the Special Reserve in 1908, just before he enlisted, he was never a militiaman (nor a regular).

The RWF number points to enlistment in the first few days of September 1914. No doubt it was because of his previous experience that he was almost immediately posted to a fighting battalion, 1 RWF.

And you're right, it is a capital F.

John

[Baconwallah]

ok guys.
ancestory has the following.
Ref WO 372/5/199095. William Davis 1 RWF Private 5804.
Also
Ref Wo 372/4/149762 William Clark 1 RWF Private 5804

Errr HMMM ok. ideas would be handy?

sorry that should be the National Archives.


ivor

5804 Davies was a Regular.
5804 Clarke (landed 11/12/1914) was a Special Reservist.

The RWF, as all other regiments, operated several numbering series concurrently. There was a Regular series for the 1st and 2nd Bns, a Special Reserve series for the 3rd Bn and five separate series for the four Territorial Force Bns - the Merioneth and Montgomery Bn had s separate series for each county. So in theory seven men could all have the same number.

John

[ap1]

Can anyone tell me about the fighting on the day he went missing/died?

As DCDL quotes, the Battle Of Festubert, two separate attacks against the German positions. The battle is extensively covered in Regimental Records Vol 3, largely drawn from the diary of Capt Stockwell OC A Company(Buffalo Bil in Sassoon's book). Some stats from the above records:

The battle resulted in an average advance of approx 600yds, although A Coy under Stockwell advanced 1200yds.

After going over the top, in the advance across the 120yds of no mans land, A Coy got hit by German MG fire, his men who survived that fire, got straight into the enemy trenches. At that point they were safe from the MG fire, this however caught the subsequent rifle companies that followed Stockwell's men over their trench parapet. The dead included The Commanding Officer Lt Col Gabbett. Indeed from the last two companies to climb out of their trench, only two of their officers survived, which would suggest massive casualties amongst the Other Ranks. It reads a little like the final scene from Black Adder. That comment is not meant as humour, but if you've seen it, you will understand the picture the records conjure up.

Stockwells CSM; Frederick Barter on reaching the German first line, managed with 8 men, by grenading as he moved along the german trench, to secure 500yds of it. He also forced 3 German Officers and 100 men to surrender and disconnected 11 underground mine leads. For these actions he was awarded the VC.

Stockwell commented on a "Half hour of strenuous hand to hand fighting" on reaching the German trenches. All Stockwells company officers died during the rush to that initial enemy trench or elsewhere within the enemy line.

Finally, the small statistic tells it all.

1st Bn RWF - Manning Levels 16 May:

Before the assault = 25 Officers and 806 Other Ranks

After the assault = 6 Officers and 247 Other Ranks.

The above is based on the 1928 volume of Regimental Records. Some of our experts may have more recent revised details.

[ivor43]

thanks John.
it just seems odd that the NA does not make any distinction between them. both are shown as 1RWF no TF or SR or anything.

ivor

[Baconwallah]

it just seems odd that the NA does not make any distinction between them. both are shown as 1RWF no TF or SR or anything.

The original documents make no distinction, so how could the NA know?

Some regiments did in fact add battalion numbers to their TF and Service numbers, useful in the case of the TF but not in the case of the Service battalions of the New Armies as their enlistments were numbered in the Regular series and therefore consecutive. You'll find that practice reflected in the NA database. But the RWF always used just the service number.

John

[Taff Wrexham]

This guy is driving me nuts.
I can't find him in the census.
I find his nok PARENTS - correct Christian names and address but wrong surname; although the mother's Maiden name was Clarke; she can't be his mother unless she was havin' a bit on the side.

To help me a bit further...

As a Territorial or as a Special Reservist would he have HAD to have been living in the area that he enlisted in. In other words could he have enlisted in Welshpool in 1903 then moved away and perhaps turned up once a year to be marked present?

Tony



Looks like he enlisted in the 4th (TF) Bn SWB first, for a 5 year period, thenenlisted in the SWB Special Reserve. In other words, first a Territorial, then a Special Reservist. As the Militia was reformed as the Special Reserve in 1908, just before he enlisted, he was never a militiaman (nor a regular).

[Taff Wrexham]

Here's another one of interest. In William's records, there is a suggestion that he was found dead and buried in the trenches by his comrades, one of whom was Private P Regan. His no. looks like 1159 or 4459 or 1459 or 4159. IS there such a person?

[ivor43]

hi guys.
despite Johns explanation re the No sequence. Have a look at Davis. just a hunch.
and just out of interest, what name was he married under.

ivor

[ivor43]

hi.
i read this earlier and did not think it relevant, and i am still not sure if it works.
There is another (111) and that is in para 392 of Kings Regulations 1912

http://www.forrestdale.pwp.blueyonde...12/para-3.html

Not likely to become an efficient soldier.

this has got me wondering if he wasn't suitable as Clark prior to hostilities. could he have joined up for war service as Davis.


ivor