'Quartet of Wales'

[Carolt]

I am hoping that someone in this forum might be able to help me find some information about my grandfather, and in particular a photograph of an ensemble that he was said to have belonged to.

His name was James Henry Miller,born 1874 in Cefn Mawr, near Wrexham, and his peace time occupation was miner. He served in the RWF, and this is mentioned in his obituary in 1936. I know that it is extremely unlikely that his records have survived as I have had some research done via the RWF museum, and have also looked at the National Archives via Ancestry. The researcher pointed out one medal card which could be his, and this indicates that he was in the RWF, then the S Wales Borderers, 65 Training Reserve Battalion, and finally the Royal Engineers. It was said in the family that he had been gassed in the Somme, and we know that he was a bandsman. After the war he belonged to the local Salvation Army Band and also the British Legion.

I saw a photograph some years ago,which is now sadly lost, of a group which my cousin said was called the ‘Quartet of Wales’. I can’t remember much about it – whether the men were in uniform, or not. It may be that it was nothing to do with the RWF, and might have been the Salvation Army. Has anyone heard of this group of musicians, or anything similar? And are there any ideas about where I might find some further information.

Best wishes and thank you
Carol

[ap1]

Welcome Carol.

Not sure if you've already researched the Cefn Mawr Chronicle - Some copies are available for viewing: http://www.wtevans-printers.co.uk/news.html This has to be worth a look.

I have found a James Miller of 6 RWF who was awarded a Silver War Badge in Oct 1916. But that battalion may not fit with you families notion that he had been previously gassed. Im not sure of the validity of the medal card that you mention, unless you have family information that James may have served in other units in addition to the RWF?

Perhaps one of our experts can check the embarkation role for the 14th Service Bn....as a shot in the dark?

Is there any other detail in the obituary about his military service?

Thanks
Al

[Baconwallah]

Perhaps one of our experts can check the embarkation role for the 14th Service Bn....as a shot in the dark?

The 14th left Southampton on SS Queen Alexandra on 02/12/1915 and landed at le Havre early the next morning.

Wrexham was of course in the 4th Bn's area.

John

[ap1]

Thats true John, however from memory I think there are Wrexham area addresses listed on the roll....hence the shot in the dark.

[Baconwallah]

Al, what I meant was that, as a Wrexham man, he would be unlikely to have served in the 6th Bn.

I do not have the 14th Bn embarkation muster roll so can't check for any Millers. My (incomplete) 1915 Star roll has no Millers at all. The 1914 Star roll has S.L. Miller and T. Miller.

John

[Carolt]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and taking the time to reply - here is a bit more info:

The research done via the RWF museum says that there were no James Henry Millers listed, and only two James Millers. I was sent copies of the medal cards for both of these - the first is the one I described in my previous post. The second was for a soldier in the 6^th Bn, enlisted 6.6.14, discharged 2.10.16. His papers exist and say he was discharged because of wounds caused by a gunshot. The date ties in well with the award of the badge you mention. His birth place was Caernarfon, so the assumption is that this is not my grandfather. And that just leaves the one……….

I don’t know anything at all about military history but did read a page on The Long, Long Trail website about the Training Reserve that suggested that reservists might serve in regiments other than the one they started off in. And it seems that the RWF and the Borderers were both based at Kinmel. I am attaching the medal card which I have downloaded via my Ancestry sub, in case it helps you decode his history.

Al - it’s funny that you should mention the Cefn Chronicle – my father, Eddie Miller, James’ younger son, wrote a column for it for some years, and I think may have learned his printing trade there. It was based at the Crane in Cefn. It’s certainly worth a look, so thanks for the suggestion. The obituary comes from the Chronicle, and it only mentions that James was a bandsman with the RWF during the Great War, and gives no more information.

Best wishes and thanks again
Carol

[Hywyn]

James Miller 1154 can be ruled out. He was born ca1894 and was fron Dean St, Bangor (Carns)

There isn't a James Miller on the 14th Bn embarkation Roll.

Medal Cards have 4 possibles.
1. Above James Miller 1154

2. James Miller 235601 (ex 201940 Monmouth Regt). when he was wounded in 1918 he was shown to be from Cardiff.

3. J Miller 4181315 and which John Tylers 1921 enlisment book research shows to be James and who enlisted in the Regular Army. This will be post 1921 and he does not have any previous service shown. Given James Henry Millers age, at least 46 in 1921, he is very unlikely to be this man?

4. The James Miller in the above medal card. The card is unusually complex and the numbers are not always in sequence. I would say the first number for the card would be the 28674 one (enlisting March 1915), overseas post Dec31 1915 (no 15 Star), back to UK at some stage, the jiggery pokery with SWB and Training Bns (they came in at 1 Sept 1916), back to RWF 64062 (January 1917) then to the R E (they renumbered to WR numbers at some date which escapes me at the moment(. Whilst typing this I've benn doing some searching as well. He also has a Silver War Badge card for the WR/205601 number. The Roll for that states enlisted 29 3 15, discharged 3 12 18 sickness aged 34. If this age is taken as right it rules James Henry Miller out.

Given that James Henry Miller was around 38 when war broke out he is likely to have served UK only which would mean no medal card and a good chance of papers having not survived. Have you any war time addresses for him?


Hywyn

[Carolt]

Thank you for disentangling the card, Hywyn. I didn't know about the Silver War Badge - was it unusual to have it on separate medal cards?

I was told quite definitely that James had been badly gassed in the Somme (whether this was the actual battle of the Somme, or at another point, I don't know) so it does sound as though he was posted to France. That might fit with the discharge owing to sickness. He was vague about his age - 1901 census: age 25, marriage cert 1902: age 24, 1911 census: age 33, obituary 1936: 57. His actual birth date was 1874, and his age at death was 61. I don't have any wartime addresses, but he was living with his wife and three children at 2 Bowens Lane, Cefn Mawr, in 1911. His parents lived in 9 Well Street Cefn, and Rock Hill, off Well Street was where his grandmother lived. The addresses are all very close to each other. I did think he seemed rather old to enlist, but he seemed to habitually underestimate his age.

I can't think of any way of obtaining more information, except, as suggested, by trawling the Cefn Chronicle at some point.

Best wishes
Carol