291786 pte J Lloyd RWF

[Bricoates]

A friend of mine has asked me to enquire about the above, 291786 Pte J Lloyd, a British WW 1 War Medal with the name was found in a cupboard, it looks like it has a victory medal ribbon (not secure) could have been accidentally swapped. This friend has a collection of money to donate towards a memorial for the Welsh servicemen who died, (I think it was Pashendale Memorial) any address please,

The Medal was found in Caernarfon Area, Thanks in advance for your help
Brian

[Baconwallah]

Bri, 291786 was Pte Evan Williams. I assume you mean Pte John Lloyd 291785. These medal engravings can be difficult to read.

John Lloyd was a Territorial who belonged to 7th RWF (Merioneth and Montgomery). His number is in the block 290001 to 315000 allocated to that bn for the renumbering of the TF in February 1917. This does not necessarily mean that he served at the front with 7 RWF, which went to Gallipoli and from there to Egypt and Palestine. He probably served initially with the 2nd or 3rd Line Bn of 7th RWF (2/7th or 3/7th) in the UK and may well have ended up in France. Men with similar numbers served with 1st RWF (John Knight 291758, Harry Wright 291768) and 2nd RWF (Robert Charles 291522) and were in time for the Arras battles in May 1917.

His service and pension records do not exist anymore. His Medal Index Card carries only the six digit number, which indicates that he did not leave the UK until after Feb 1917. He was awarded the Victory Medal and the British War Medal.

Hope this helps.

John

[Hywyn]

John Lloyd 291785 was at 7 Cambrian Terrace, Tanygrisiau in 1918 and in the 8th Bn. Medal Rolls would need checking to confirm the Battalion though. I'd stick my neck out and say his previous number was 4879 but it could be 4880 or 4881. Nil papers that I can see with these numbers but check was not exhaustive. Hasn't turned up on any caslists but the 8th Bn seems to me to be more likely to be sick which isn't included on the lists.

Not found him conclusively on the 1911 census but there is one aged 19yrs at 'Tanygrisiau' who has a number of brothers inc an Abel Lloyd.

Abel Lloyd 291479 was KIA with the 7th Bn 26/3/1917 and has the address of 7 Cambrian Terrace, Tanygrisiau.
http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-d.../LLOYD,%20ABEL


I think Lars has his medals. If not him I'll have a dig around as to where I have seem him come up before (Abel that is)

Hywyn

[Hywyn]

Given that it's accepted that this medal recipient John Lloyd is the brother of the casualty Abel Lloyd then another brother James Lloyd was 2076/290367 RWF. A man of those particulars was at 92 Clarence St, Mountain Ash, S Wales in 1918 and also on the 'family' form in Abels' papers (without the numbers). Another brother, Griffith Lloyd was 6039/227623 Monmouth Regt.

Hywyn

[Baconwallah]

On reflection, and having checked the Army careers of others with similar numbers, I think I can summarise as follows:

Enlisted 3/7 RWF (TF) February 1916. Mobilised July 1916 and posted to 4 Reserve Bn (formed April 1916 from 3/4, 3/5, 3/6 and 3/7 RWF). As reinforcement May 1917 to Mesopotamia, probably posted to 8 RWF as Hywyn said.

John

[Bricoates]

My Friend thanks for the Info ref. medal, the medal was found in an item of furniture sold in Penrhyndeidraith!!, (not as I thought in the Caernarfon area) about 8 miles from Tanygrisiau, which would make more sense.
Regards and thanks
Brian

[LarsA]

I can confirm I have Abel Lloyds medals, along with his memorial scroll and if I remember correctly a photo of the family.

See below what info I have,


ATB,
Lars

Pte 4322 & 291479 Abel Lloyd, 7th RWF
Abel Lloyds family lived at 7 Cambrian Terrace, Tanygrisiau, Blaenau Festiniog in North Wales.

His first battalion was 3/7th RWF, where he got the service number 4322. He joined up in February 1916, aged 19, 5 feet 8 inches tall; weighing 150 Lbs. He listed his father, Griffith Lloyd as his next of kin. With his mother Alice (born in Carnarvon), six older brothers (Rees, Robert E, Griffith, James, John and Lewis) and one sister (Mary G) the family was large, and all the male members worked in the slate quarries.
When the time came to go overseas in late December 1916, he was posted to the 1/7th RWF, then serving in the Middle East, 53rd Division, 158th Brigade. In the first battle for Gaza on 26/3/1917, he was noticed to suffer a GSW right arm, but he was not recovered from the battlefield and therefore listed as missing. The battalion suffered 9 officers and 36 other ranks KIA, 7 officers and 220 other ranks WIA, and 15 men missing.
Abel Lloyd was never recovered, his death was later accepted for official reasons to have occurred on the 26/3/1917 and he is commemorated on the Jerusalem Memorial, and in the memorial hospital in Blaenau.
In the 1917 renumbering he was numbered 291479, but the number which is engraved on his BWM and VM is 4322.
With his medals came his memorial scroll (unfortunately no plaque) and a number of coloured or b/w photos of him and the family. Also a memorial cloth from Malta with his photo.

[Swiper]

Luckily 53 Div in WW1 has a good number of period texts regarding it.

I recommend Lord Silsoe's book on the subject matter (also known as Trustram-Eve). He wrote an excellent book 'Sixty Years a Welsh Territorial' the earlier half will be what you need, give a great insight into life in the TA and the RWF... also the woeful preparation of the Army to send the TA to Gallipoli.