My Grandfathers Alfred (Bill) Cooper record

[ap1]

Just grasping at straws John, what about the 1918 Absent voters list. Perhaps using the address given by Martin...or perhaps the 1911 census. I've never seen an example, but i'm led to believe they sometimes provide regimental information if the soldier was still overseas??

[Baconwallah]

Back from a few days in Ieper with four military historians from Dresden.

Good question, Al. I must admit I never used the AV Lists, so it's not a solution I would think of. In fact, I wouldn't even know where to find them. Considering my lack of expertise here, Clive Hughes or Hywyn might be better equipped to approach the problem from that angle. The same goes for the census lists as my Ancestry subscription does not include those, only the military stuff.

If Martin could give us some idea of when his GF was in France, we could perhaps eliminate the higher numbers.

John

[casademartin]

Hello John, thank you for your interest. I simply do not know, I wish I knew more, with his dob as 1892 you would know better than I when he would likely have served. But thank you so much.
Martin

[Baconwallah]

I had a look at the 1911 census, Martin, but without success. No Alfred William anywhere (but only the first name was recorded). No Alfred or William in Stirchley. For the Birmingham area I found:

Name: Wm Cooper
Residence: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Name: Mr A Cooper
Residence: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Name: Mr W Cooper
Residence: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Take your pick. No real evidence for any of these. Mr A Cooper could also be Albert or Arthur, or even Aneurin (if he was Welsh).

Deducing your GFs service from his 1892 DoB is not as simple as it sounds.

- If he was a Regular, he could have joined as a boy, earliest date 1906, number around 9500, or as an adult, 1910, number around 11000, or anywhere in between these dates. Or much later, of course, perhaps in a spirit of patriotism in 1914, or in 1917 to avoid the stigma of conscription.
- If he was a Special Reservist, he could have joined in 1910 or later. Special Reserve recruiting dropped off in 1915, so probably not later than that.

Living in Birmingham, he would not have joined a Territorial battalion. Too far away.

Working at Cadbury's and going off to war means either a Reservist, but he was too young for that, or a Special Reservist, or a War volunteer (Kitchener's Army).

Once again, take your pick.

Summing up: without a number or any other service related info we're not getting anywhere.

John

PS only one Alfred William Cooper in the entire set of Medal Index Cards: Pte Alfred William Cooper 314, Royal Army Medical Corps (TF).

[casademartin]

John,

I have found, I think more probable information.

His regimental number was 136920, regiment name Army Service Corp (M T), Document year 1915.

Is this any help?

Martin

[Baconwallah]

That is useful info, Martin.

Your Grandfather is in the National Archives medal index as Cooper W, M2/136920 Sgt, Army Service Corps. He never served with the RWF, enlisting directly into the ASC. I found his Service Record.

There is some confusion about his awards. An additional Medal Index Card says "Mentioned in Despatches", London Gazette page 13480. I checked the LG which cites the correct number but quotes the name as W Craske. The service record mentions a Distinguished Conduct Medal which I could not find in the LG. I shall leave further research on the subject to you, as my browser for some reason of its own refuses to display the LG pdf pages.

If you PM me your e-mail address, I'll send you what I could find in the National Archives: Medal Index Cards and Service Record.

John

[ap1]

Just as matter of interest Martin, how did you eventually get the more detailed info about your grandfather?

[Baconwallah]

That is what I was thinking, Al. The "Document year 1915" suggests that Martin found William Cooper in the Ancestry Service Records index, which helpfully provides a birth year and an address (where available), but was unable to access the record. He would have to be a member of Ancestry for that.

John

[casademartin]

Heavens John, you guys are good, so good of you to help. Quite right Ancestry was the source. He was not welsh the only welsh connections were the holidays fishing the river Mawdach with him on Vanner farm Dolgellue N.Wales - best years of my life!. Farmer taught me a few welsh words that I've never quite understood. Kindest regards,
Martin, Australia
email: casademartin@bigpond.com

[ap1]

Thanks Martin,

So for clarity, he never served with the RWF and the short excerpt from the company newsletter from his time with Cadburys which mentioned his RWF service was incorrect, is that right?