George Surmon Jenkins

I have been doing a lot of genealogy recently and have hit a bit of wall when it comes to my paternal great grandfather, George Surman Jenkins, and his time in the 2/23rd. Here is what I presently know:

1. Born 23 July 1850 at Clyro Hay, Radnorshire, Wales.
2. 1871 UK Census shows him as a 19 year old Private Soldier in the 2/23 in the Gillingham, Kent area of the UK.
3. He marries Eliza Ann Short 27 Apr 1878. He was living at Westhide, Herefordshire and gave his occupation as "Farm Labourer". Age on Marriage certificate given as 26 years.
4. He emigrates to Canada with his wife and rapidly expanding family in April of 1895, first settling in Vermillion Bay, Ontario and then in Souris, Manitoba. He worked for the CPR railway.
5. In January of 1916, he returned to the UK and worked for a year in a munitions factory, returning later to Canada.
6. He died 11 March 1934 at Souris, Manitoba. Two separate obituary notices state he was in the "23rd Royal Welsh Fusiliers" and saw service in the Ashanti and Zulu wars.

So this is what I have deduced so far:

a) He wasn't sure of his own year of birth when he enlisted and when he married - the date of 23 July 1850 comes from his obituary notices, his graveyard headstone and the 1901 Canadian Census data.
b) One of the obituary notices said that he joined the 2/23rd when he was 19 which would make his enlistment year around 1869.
c) I can buy into his being part of the Ashanti campaign of Jan-Feb 1874 in Ghana since the 2/23rd was definitely there.
d) In order for him to take part in the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879, I think he would have to have been in a different regiment since I don't believe that the 2/23rd were part of the order of battle for the UK forces in that conflict.
e) With respect to point d) above, his marriage to Eliza Ann Short in April of 1878 seems to point to him being out of the military as he gave his occupation as "Farm Labourer" on the marraige certificate. Is it plausible that he would have been able to re-enlist for a short period of time, say 1878-1800? By the 1881 UK Census date he was living with his in-laws, wife and first child at Bordesley in Birmingham.

So the questions that I need answered are:

A) When did he join and when did he leave the 2/23rd?
B) Was he really in the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879 and if so, what unit was he with? When did he enlist and when did he leave that unit?

Any help answering these questions would be much appreciated. I have attached copies of the two obituary notices (the plain text one is from the Souris Plaindealer of March 1934 and the one with a picture is from the Winnipeg Free Press of March 1934), the 1871 UK census page (he is listed on line 7), a copy of his marriage certificate from 1878, and finally a picture of him taken sometime in the 1920s in Canada.

I can confirm there is a Pte George Jenkins on the medal roll for the Ashantee campaign of 1874 with 2/RWF. He was awarded the medal without the Coomassie clasp.

His Regimental number is 2090, which should unlock some more doors for you. Have you had anyone search for his papers at the National Archive?

I will do some more digging for you, but you are correct that the RWF did not serve in the Zulu Campaign.

Richard

Hey that was quick Richard! Am I correct in thinking that if he was enlisted with another regiment for the Anglo-Zulu War that he would have a second and different regimental number?

I have poked around the PRO website myself but I have to admit that I find it difficult to navigate their search engine. I'll see what I can turn up with the regimental number you have provided. What is the significance of the lack of Coomassie Clasp?

BTW, I was in Kumasi myself in 1971 on a visit to Ghana to see my future wife who was working in the upper Volta region at a little place called Jasikan. Of course at that time I had no idea that my great grandfather had been to Ghana almost 100 years before me!

Thanks, :biggrin:

Ross

Hi Ross

Again your right, if he transferred to another regiment he would have been given a new number. The trick will really be to see if his W097's have survived (Service Papers) If these have been destroyed, then it should be possible to track him through the muster rolls. Hopefully it might put us on to the trail of another regiment. Quite a few served in the Zulu campaign, so clues badly needed. Also remember, it could also have been an old soldiers tale.

Most of the things you need to check are not available online I am sorry to say. I hardly get there anymore due to work and children, but can highly recommend a researcher who can do it for you. He does mine for me, and has never disappointed.

The lack of the Coomassie clasp means that George did not cross north of the Prah river, and so was not present at Amoaful and the capture of the capital.

What a coincidence about being in the region, as it is not a popular holiday destination. I suspect that the region had changed somewhat in the 100 years!

I'm off to do some real work now, although I would rather be having a dig around for you! Will see what else we can find when I get home and the kids are in bed.

Richard

Thanks Richard, I would appreciate the coordinates of your researcher. I wonder if my GGF would have enlisted with that other Welsh regiment, the 24th (South Wales Borderers)?

Just out of curiosity, I found a image on-line of Lt. Chards hand written copy of the muster roll for Rorkes Drift and not surprisingly there were two Private Jenkins listed, both with the 1/24th. One was killed so he can be ruled out but Private Jenkins 1083 survived. Not likely my GGF though. If he had been at Rorkes Drift I'm sure that much more would have been made of it in his obituaries etc. In any case, here is the URL to the Rorkes Drift muster roll:

http://www.soldiersofthequeen.com/images/ChardsRoll.jpg

I think the odds are about 50-50 that claims of his participation in the Zulu War are just an old soldiers tale.

Ross

Hello rawj1,
If you believe your relative served at either Isandlawana or Rorkes Drift he would have been in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment.the first battalion were wiped out at Isandlawana, and a detachment of "B" Company of the 2nd Warwicks defended the drift against Prince Dabulamanzi's Impi regiment.On an army reform of infantry regiments carried out in 1881 by Childers and later Caldwell there were 2 regiments of foot numbered the 24th.
These were the Warwicks and the South Wales Borderers. The Warwicks were originally known as Colonel Derings Regiment as he was charged with raising this regiment. Colonel Dering was born in Kent, and the Depot in Brecon was named after him.it was highly unlikely that any of the defenders of Rorkes Drift or Isandlwama ever saw the skies over Brecon.Childers and Caldwell also had as part of their remit to stop officers buying commissions up to the rank of major, the other part of their task was to stop flogging in the army. the Duke of Wellesly( General Wellington) and the Duke of Cambridge were both in favour of retaining flogging for disciplinary purposes. As a result of Childers and Caldwells efforts the South Wales Borderers were given the regimental number and style the 24th of Foot South Wales Borderers in 1881 some 3 years after the defence of the drift, and kept it until 1969 when they were amalgamated with the Welch Regiment to become the 24/41st of foot. the top army brass had their way regarding flogging, in as much as Field punishment was kept on during the Great War. Richard is quite correct in his statement that a lot of Regiments were involved in the South African wars.I am not listing them as it would take too long and I am goling from memory in this e mail.
Regards RBD aka jungle

Hello rawj1,
I am adding an after thought for you.There were two Chard reports from the drift.Bromhead also wrote a report and letters to Colonel Glyn about the defence of the drift.Colonel Glyn also wrote a report on the drift.Surgeon Reynolds wrote a report on the defence of the drift.there also exists a report from C/Sjt Bourne this differs from other reports in as much as Bourne claims that "B" Company were fired upon from the high ground at the drift.when the general concensus of opinion is that Prince Dabulamanzi left the drift against King Cetewayo's orders, to try and make a name for himself.the general belief is that Prince Dabulamanzi's 4,000 or so Impis moved out too fast to take ordinance from the fallen at Isandlawana. his report is therefore at odds with a lot of authors works on this battle.some doubt exists over these reports from Chard it is believed they were written by another unknown hand for Chard.
Regards RBDF aka jungle

Hi jungle1810,

Thanks for your background information. I have some doubts about my GGF participation in the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879. I guess he could have gone from farm labourer in April of 1878 to soldier again in time for the 1879 campaign and then somehow be out of the service in time to be found living with his in-laws in Birmingham by April 3, 1881 (the date of the 1881 UK census).

What sort of terms of enlistment would allow for such a short re-enlistment period? I suppose he might have been invalided out due to illness. Also, his oldest child, a daughter Jane, was born August 11, 1879 which means he must have been in the UK in November or December of 1878 in order to impregnate his wife. Doesn't seem to leave much time for soldiering does it?

Ross

Hi Ross

I have been digging but can find no further references to your chap. Next port of call for me would be a trawl of the National Archives.

Kevin Asplin is the the chap who does my digging for me these days, his email address is as below :

KevinAsplin@aol.com

If you tell him what you do know and what you think you know (ie the Zulu War part in the obit) He will give it his best shot. Just remember there is the chance that no papers have survived, but you will still need to pay for his time in looking, but if Kevin can't find them I doubt anyone can.

I had one chap I was researching by the name of Whitaker, who coincidently also served in the Ashantee war, who I could find no trace of at all. I conceded defeat and assumed the records were lost or destroyed. I accidentally including his name on a 'to-do' list to Kevin, and ended up with some papers to a chap called Goodwin ...... it seemed Whittaker had enlisted under an Alias and later came clean about it, and so his papers were filed under his correct name, which was not the one on the medal!

Please let us know how you get on. This is a very interesting thread.

Regards

Richard

Hi Richard,

Just a quick update. I've asked Kevin to see what he can find re: George Jenkins. He now has all the information that I have and he thinks that it will be pretty straight forward to research.

He mentioned that one possibility is that George went into the Army Reserve in 1878 and was recalled at start of the Zulu War. He said a lot of men from the 23rd were transferred to the 24th to help rebuild it after its near destruction at Isandalwana. I guess we will have to see what he finds before we know for sure.

Ross

Great stuff Ross.

Thanks for the update. I look forward to seeing what Kevin finds. :cool:

Regards

Richard

Gents
I think you may want to check out the date of the South Wales Borderers.

The Regiment was formed as Sir Edward Dering's Regiment of Foot in 1689, becoming known, like other regiments, by the names of its subsequent colonels. It became the 24th Regiment of Foot in 1751, having been deemed 24th in the infantry order of precedence since 1747. In 1782 it became the 24th (The 2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot. The 1st Warwickshires were the 6th (1st Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot. In 1776 the Regiment was sent to Lower Canada (now Quebec)

The 24th (The 2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot became the South Wales Borderers on 1 July 1881.

The Battle of Rorke's Drift was on 22nd January 1879 part of the Zulu war next to the Tugela River in Zululand South Africa.

Ergo the 2nd Warwickshire were at Rourkes drift, the South Wales Borderers were formed 18 Months later.
So if you are searching for the correct regiment the gent served in it was the 2nd Warwickshire 24th of Foot.
all good Warwickshire lads Know that:smile:

Hey yeomanterry,

Mea culpa! My error for conjoining the two different regiments back in message # 5 even though I knew better. I don't think the other respondents were confused by my mixed terminology, thankfully. :sorry:

2nd update.

Kevin started his research on G.S. Jenkins this Saturday (Dec. 12, 2009) and I'll summarize what he has found so far. He has tracked him from enlistment with the 2/23 until the end of his six years of service and transfer to the Army Reserve. He has then found him in the musters at the Depot at Wrexham on May 1, 1878 which may mean his marriage in April of 1878 was precipitated by his impending recall to the colours. He is given a new regimental number on recall. Kevin hopes to track him from that point when he next visits the archives of the PRO, probably next weekend.

So maybe the old boy was in the Zulu War after all... stay tuned ! :biggrin:

Ross

Final update (for those who have been following this thread):

Kevin finished his research on George Jenkins and found that after he was recalled from the Army Reserve in May of 1878, he was released back to the reserve a couple of months later so George never was in South Africa or the Zulu War.

In Kevin's words "..as a man at the 23rd Depot Bn. (which also cared for the 24th Foot) he'd have rubbed shoulders with the men who died in South Africa in 1879.. who knows if talking about this in later life didn't lead to the misconception by relatives that he too had served there."

Below is a summary of what Kevin found:

George Jenkins – 23rd Foot

25/11/1870 – George Jenkins is recruited at the Cardiff district and joins the 2/23rd Foot at Chatham as #2090 of that unit on 03/12/1870. He is stated as being 19 years 2 months old.

02/08/1871 – 2/23rd move from Chatham to Woolwich.

1 to 29/11/1871 – On furlough

23/08/1872 – 2/23rd move from Woolwich to Gravesend and embark for passage to Ireland.

28/08/1872 – 2/23rd move from Kingston to Mullingar.

26/11/1872 – 1st penny of good conduct pay is granted after 2 years service.

11/06/1873 – 2/23rd move from Mullingar to the Curragh,

27-30/09/1873 – On furlough

20/11/1873 – 2/23rd move from the Curragh to Cork to prepare to embark on ships for service in the Gold Coast.

Ashanti Campaign

20/03/1874 – 2/23rd arrive at Portsmouth and travel to Shorncliffe.

09 & 10/10/1874 – 2/23rd move from Shorncliffe to Portsmouth and board ships to Gibraltar.

26/11/1876 – Receives 2nd penny of good conduct pay after 6 years service.

24/02/1877 – Leaves Gibraltar for discharge to the Army Reserve at Netley after 6 years of colour service.

01/05/1878 – Recalled from the Army Reserve, re-numbered as #1414 and joins the 23rd Brigade Depot at Wrexham.

31/07/1878 – Discharged back to the Army Reserve at the 23rd Brigade Depot, Wrexham.

I must add that I have been very pleased with the thoroughness of Kevin Asplin's research work and the reasonable cost that it entailed and I heartily recommend him to anyone else needing research done at the PRO in the UK. :smile:

Thanks for the report Ross.

I am really pleased that Kevin came up trumps for you. Looks like you have a pretty complete picture of service now.

Regards

Richard