Three soldiers have been bailed by a court

Four serving soldiers are being questioned over the death of a 22-year-old serviceman while on exercise in Wiltshire. The soldier collapsed and died after exercises at around noon on Monday.

A 44-year-old, a 33-year-old, a 31-year-old and a 28-year-old, all serving with the 2nd Battalion of The Royal Welsh regiment based at Tidworth were arrested by Wiltshire Police on suspicion on manslaughter.

The four were being questioned at Salisbury police station. A post-mortem examination will be carried out, police said. "As inquiries are at an early stage, no further details are available at this time," a Wiltshire Police spokesman said. It is understood that Wiltshire Police, not the Royal Military Police, took the lead in the investigation because the soldier died in a civilian area, thought to be a hospital.

The 2nd Battalion The Royal Welsh recruits from the whole of Wales and has a history of more than 300 years. The 600-strong battalion, based at Lucknow Barracks in Tidworth, is described on its website as "the Welsh Armoured punch" and "at the forefront of Britain's response to world events".

Royal Welsh soldier was 'beasted' by NCOs before dying

by Murdo Maguire — last modified 05-07-2006 07:17


<!-- Article Start -->As a fifth NCO is arrested, the army names the soldier victim of heat exhaustion as Private Gavin Williams from Hengoed in South Wales, who had served in the regiment for around six months and joined while they were in Iraq. Private Gavin Williams, 22 of the Royal Welsh, who died on Monday from heat exhaustion, had been forced to perform strenuous physical exercises — known as a “beasting”. The squaddie was being punished for "general indiscipline which included being absent without leave" compunded with payback for a prank with a fire hose after a drinking session following England's defeat in the World Cup.

The beasting comprised Private Williams being forced to undertake strenuous exercise carrying weights as temperatures hit 30°C (86°F) on one of the hottest days of the year. Around lunchtime Private Williams collapsed and was first taken to the Queen Elizabeth medical centre on the Tidworth Barrack site who called paramedics believing that he had suffered a heart attack. He was rushed to Salisbury District Hospital as an emergency case and immediately placed in the crash room and frantic attempts made at resuscitation. He died some time before 4pm.

Wiltshire police were brought in because the death had occurred on civilian premises. Five soldiers, including adjutant Captain Mark Davis who is in charge of regimental discipline and four NCOs of differing senior and junior ranks are being questioned by Wiltshire Police at Salisbury police station in connection with manslaghter. Among the questions police expect to raise are whether Private Williams was denied water.

Family finally lays solider Gavin to rest <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=headerTable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=* border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Oct 25 2006


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The family of a soldier who died nearly four months ago while exercising said today they were pleased to “finally” lay him to rest.

Hundreds of mourners braved heavy downpours to attend the funeral of Private Gavin Williams of Hengoed, south Wales.
The 22-year-old collapsed and died during an incident at Lucknow Barracks in Tidworth on July 3.
Five servicemen from his regiment – the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh – were arrested on suspicion of manslaughter following the death and have since been released on bail.
Gary Jenkins, the uncle of Pte Williams, said: “As a family we are pleased to finally have Gavin home, and to be able to lay him to rest.

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Three soldiers have been charged with manslaughter following the death of a 22-year-old private at a barracks.

Three servicemen are to be charged with manslaughter following the death of Private Gavin Williams who collapsed while allegedly being punished at his barracks, the Crown Prosecution Service said today. Pte Williams, from Hengoed, Caerphilly, was serving with the Royal Welsh regiment when he died.

Lawyers for the CPS advised Wiltshire Police to charge Sergeant Russell Price, Sergeant Paul Blake and Lance Corporal John Edwards with manslaughter following the death of Private Gavin Williams on July 3, 2006.

Stephen O'Doherty, CPS reviewing lawyer, said: "Pte Williams, a soldier with the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh, was to be charged and would have faced sanctions and an inquiry into a series of alleged disciplinary breaches he had committed."

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He said that Pte Williams was subjected to "an intense period of physical activity amounting to unlawful punishment, on an extremely hot day".

i am sure [and i speak for us all ] that most of us had a beasting in the jail and i am sure that the nco,s did not intend for this spell in jail to end in the death of of Pte Williams .
but this incedent ending up in the civvie courts will have a major nock on effect on how disipline in the army is carried out.
They ought to have dealt with this internaly , now i fear for the nco's involved , in court trying to explain how the army often give people a good beasting to sought them out.
Thease nco's will get a jail term for doing there job .
At the same time my sympathy goes to the family of Pte Williams .
i found in my time the thought of the white webbing and helmet and Irv giving me more **** than what you can imagine soughted me out , a 100 pound fine would have done nothing

lets hope that some of the jury are ex army , then they might understand what happened

cheers
led

first of all this is a sad case, and my condolances go out to the young lads family. This case is a mine field to even comment on in the first place for legal and ethical reasons.

However, I'm sure statistically the chances of this happening on a beasting by the provo staff to a young, fit lad who's just had six previous month's of beasting in basic training are about the same as being bitten by a great white shark off the coast of barry island ? I'm not condoning the beasting at all and I don't know any details of the case, but would this have happened if the poor lad was playing five aside footy around about the same time?
has led pointed out, beasting has been going on for decades and and it worked on me too! but, they used to put kids up chimneys back in the day because that worked too.
It's 2007 now and fusiliers are not the same animal as they were in 1908. maybe its time to move on from beasting ? what the alternatives? I don't know, but I'm sure there's plenty of military psychologists who could push the next phase of disclipline at bn level.

thanks.
sean ''oc'' o'connor

This Death was stupid and unnecessary and amounted to bullying.Our NCO'S in the 50's
Must have been gentlmen compared to these idiots.When I compare them to Sgt. E.Pring Cpl, Mc Cormack, Cpl Collins Cpl. Jackson Cpl. Donovanand Sgt. Mann M.M.They were tough and good instructors and never went over the top with the disipline.or is my old memory letting me down,I dont think so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by idris thomas

This Death was stupid and unnecessary and amounted to bullying.Our NCO'S in the 50's
Must have been gentlmen compared to these idiots.

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So I take it you were there to witness exactly what happened. It's a good job you won't be on the jury as you have condemned these men as guilty.

In this great country of ours they are innocent until proven guilty. Being charged does not mean they are guilty and I am sure that justice will prevail and you will see these men found not guilty.

Yes I agree me must await the evidence before drawing conclusions, and whatever the reason I am sure this was an accident and that all concerned are deeply regretful.

Never the less with the lose of a son a brother a friend all you want it the truth and justice


Barry

I am well aware and appreciative of the fact that the forum is a place where personal opinions and objective viewpoints are aired amongst each other, however, In this instance can I offer my humble opinions at this time. I believe that we may need to take a step back here and consider a few relevant points.

1. UK Sniper is quite correct in the fact that although charged, at this stage, the charged men have not been found guilty of any offence.
2. We may also need to be mindful of the fact that this link on the forum may well be being read by relatives/colleagues of Pte Williams and those of the soldier's involved.

Please forgive me if you feel that we all should be able to demonstrate our views on this sensitive subject, but all I ask is that we perhaps consider the two points above. In time, at the conclusion of the court case, all facts will be public knowledge. Can we honestly all say at this point in time, that we actually know all the evidence that is available.

Cheers,

Scouse75

Scouse it may be just me but the subject is news and people will have opinions, and the forum is the place members tend to air them, I am sure no harm is meant, but I do feel that we all should be able to comment on all permitted listings on the forum but also at all times remain sensitive to all parties concerned, (Points 1 & 2 included).

It would be quite difficult to mark items as taboo and anything really insensitive would be identified and amended by admin? Would it not.



Regards

Barry

SALISBURY Three soldiers have been bailed by a court, charged with the manslaughter of a junior colleague.

Making their first appearance at Salisbury Magistrates’ Court were Sergeant Russell Price, 45, Sergeant Paul Blake, 37, and Corporal John Edwards, 45. Following the short hearing the men were bailed to appear at Winchester Crown Court on August 6.

Sergeant Blake and Corporal Edwards are from the 2nd Battalion the Royal Welsh Regiment at Lucknow Barracks in Tidworth while Sergeant Price is with 2 Rifles based at Weeton Barracks in Blackpool.
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Jurors have been selected to try three soldiers accused of killing a junior colleague.

Sergeant Russell Price, Sergeant Paul Blake and Corporal John Edwards all deny the manslaughter of Private Gavin Williams at Lucknow Barracks in Tidworth, on Salisbury Plain in Wiltshire.

Twelve potential jury members and six reserves were selected and then sent home. The case was adjourned until Thursday, when the prosecution is expected to open its case.

Pte Williams, 22, from Hengoed in South Wales, who was part of the Second Battalion the Royal Welsh Regiment, collapsed on July 3 2006 and died later that day.

Sgt Blake, 37, and Cpl Edwards, 45, both from the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh Regiment, and Sgt Price, 45, of 2 Rifles, are standing trial at Winchester Crown Court.

I agree with Led, I did a stint on the white helmets display team in Warminster which lasted a good 2 hours long and I remember it was a really hot day also.

We started doubling the the camp dressed in the helmets and webbing, then with that and the shell each and then carrying the log, Well me and Sid Price carried the log, Fred Green made out he was doing it. The number 23 gave me nightmares for months.

And all this for being 5 minutes late for parade, (Spud Murphy & Scottie Blair made out we were late, however we were always 5 minutes early because this was instilled in us. We found out a few years later that we were jailed because Murphy had a disagreement with band master over rehearsal timings he did not want to do, so the only way he could get out of it was jailing the front rank.

Which in those days you could and did not have to be charged and put on OC orders.

Led only once i did the white helmets display team that was enough for me mate, on the other hand you had your own helmet and webbing marked up with your name on. And was always guarenteed to wear it on every posting, even on exercise trumpet dance in America you wore it.

However this does not take away the fact that a young man did die, whether the beasting did this or that he had a medical condition which was not known to the Army. And my condolences go out to his family at this very sad time.

lets not jump to any conclusions until the trial starts and hopefully the justice system makes the right judgement.

However lets hope that some ex Squaddies are on this 12 person jury.

Many sports people have died doing very tough training over the years, have their trainers gone to jail (No) is the answer. And many service people are being killed out in Iraq and Afganistan without having the correct clothing or equipment still. But is the defence secretary or the Prime Minister in the dock for this.

The defence Secretary is sending these men and women out to do a job without the protection or equipment, so if any service people die doing their job, then why is the defence secretary brought to justice. And not for manslaughter because they know what they are doing.

lets hope that sence prevails on this one.

I don't really know the full story in this case but I've read abit about it in the local rag...

OK, let's put things into context... A young lad, who's decided to make his family and himself proud and make the huge move in joining the army...not the jihad movement and become the enemy within(which is probably better money)..the british army, as we all did.

I've read, right or wrong that the lad in question made his way back to the barracks steaming drunk and squirted a guest of the officers mess with a fire extinguisher....not the end of the world I hope we all agree? Then he was tracked down by the RP staff and the Instruction was given that he turn up the following morning ''panting like a dog''. (according to the south wales argus).

Ok, lets go a full 360 degrees. Young lad walking back to the block after a few beers down the naffi...guests' of the Officers mess decide he's fair game and let rip with a fire extinguisher.....Think about it.

What punishment would the officer get...I know...None.
The uk, as we all know as got a massive two tier system. Long since gone in the rest of the civilised world.

If going to sandhurst gives you the god given right to dish down such punishment, why did we all go and get rid of Saddam Hussain, because I thought that's what he did to his own people?
The days of being able to be the judge and jury are gone...It's 2008. Not 1914. the average Fuslilier/private is able to read and write now.

(All views appreciated)

Sean O'connor ''oc''

Jul 29 2008 Media Wales

THE jury in the trial of three non-commissioned officers accused of “beasting” a soldier to death retired today to consider its verdicts.

The trial at Winchester Crown Court has heard that Private Gavin Williams, 22, was allegedly put through an intense session of physical exercise at Lucknow Barracks in Tidworth, Wiltshire, on July 3, 2006 to punish him for his drunken behaviour.

Pte Williams, from Hengoed in South Wales, of the Second Battalion the Royal Welsh Regiment, collapsed and died of heatstroke on one of the hottest days of the year.

The prosecution allege that Provost Sergeant Russell Price, 46, of 2 Rifles, led the beasting, “willingly” assisted by physical training instructor Sergeant Paul Blake, 37, and Corporal John Edwards, 33, both from the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh Regiment. The trio deny the manslaughter of Pte Williams.

Mark Dennis QC, prosecuting, said the three defendants unlawfully killed Pte Williams by subjecting him to ill-treatment and physical abuse before he collapsed.

oh well lads see you in a few years after that summing up.....can we safely say that the families of friendly fire can now take on the pilots from america who killed their sons or daughters in this boll-cks they call friendly fire.

'Beasting' death soldiers cleared.

Three Soldiers have been cleared of manslaughter of a junior colleague at a barracks in Wiltshire. Sgt Russell Price, Sgt Paul Blake and Cpl John Edwards were all found Not Guilty by a Jury at Winchester Crown Court.

Glad to see common sense prevail.

'Beasting' death soldiers cleared

Pte Williams died after being punished for a misdemeanour
Three soldiers have been cleared of the manslaughter of a junior colleague at a barracks in Wiltshire.

Pte Gavin Williams, 22, of Hengoed, Caerphilly, collapsed and died at Lucknow Barracks in Tidworth in 2006.

Sgt Russell Price, 45, Sgt Paul Blake, 37, and Cpl John Edwards, 42, were found not guilty by a jury at Winchester Crown Court.

The court had heard that Pte Williams died after being made to do an informal punishment known as beasting.

During the trial the prosecution alleged Pte Williams was put through an intense session of physical exercise, or beasting, to punish him for his drunken high jinks.

The soldier, of the Second Battalion the Royal Welsh Regiment, collapsed and died on one of the hottest days in 2006.

He was admitted to hospital where tests showed his body temperature was 41.7C, higher than the norm of 37C.

Tests subsequently showed he had ecstasy in his body when he died.

Following the acquittal, trial judge Mr Justice Royce attacked the Army for allowing beasting to take place.

He also criticised the fact that the three non-commissioned officers were placed in the dock while their commander, the adjutant Captain Mark Davis, who ordered that Pte Williams be brought to him "hot and sweaty", was in the process of being promoted.

In his summing up, the judge had asked the jury to consider whether the defendants had been "hung out to dry" while Capt Mark Davis was not prosecuted.

Mr Justice Royce said: "The evidence has demonstrated that the practice of beasting - which clearly falls outside appropriate military discipline - was going on in these barracks openly and must have been known to senior officers."

The conclusion of the trial allows the Royal Military Police now to conduct a full investigation into his death... this will examine whether there were any breaches of military law said Major General Andrew Gregory

He went on: "Many will have found it unpalatable that the order from Captain Davis to bring this man to them 'hot and sweaty' was an order that the defendants found themselves having to comply with.

"Many would have found it unpalatable that three NCOs were in the dock facing these charges and to hear he is about to be promoted.

"Lessons have to be learnt from this case by the regiment and the Army.

"This sort of activity should not be condoned and mustn't be allowed to happen again and this lesson must be clearly relayed to those in charge."

The court also heard there was likely to be a board of inquiry into the practice of beasting.

'Campaign for justice'

After the verdict the director general personnel of the British Army, Major General Andrew Gregory, said: "The Army deeply regrets the death of Private Williams and my thoughts are with his family at this difficult time.

"The conclusion of the trial allows the Royal Military Police now to conduct a full investigation into his death.

"This will examine whether there were any breaches of military law. A decision can then be made on further action. I am unable to comment further until this investigation concludes."

A statement was read outside court from Pte Williams's mother Debra expressing her anger at the treatment of her son.

She said the family's "campaign for justice" would continue

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As they have been cleared by a civil court, if the RMP investigation and Reg enquiry (if there is one), agree that the 3 are guilty, will they be liable for charges to be bought under sect 69/70 of AA?

no matter what this lad done,no matter how bad it was the end of the day ha paid the price with his life which no-one should have to do.if it was in operational conditions then thats what we all join up for ....however it wasnt,the people that gave beasting only acted on command and if this happend in civvy st(not the beasting but a order by a work superior which resulted in the death of a colleague)then the person issuing the order would probably face a man-slaughter charge.when rank and authority is given then it carries the responsibility of following all your orders through to the end and a result of this they should also accept the consequences that go with it.all too often in the army we hear that mud rolls down hill and stops at the bottom.however it has to start from somewhere just like this command did for this young private and in my opinion from what ive seen on the news etc the wrong people were in court

I agree Andy, hat is why I asked he question about possible proscecution under AA. As the press have said, the one that should have been tried got away with it, he also should be pros under 69/70.

Here's what the Army Rumour Service has to say about it.