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Hi, I’m a student at the University of Dundee currently in the middle of carrying out a dissertation on the regiments of Wales and I was wondering what peoples opinions are on the amalgamation of the regiments. I’m just wondering whether people believe that the amalgamation is a good thing or a bad thing.
J, there are quite a few past threads on the forum that were running during the time of the amalgamation and the fallout of that process. Im sure one of the other members may be able to give you the key words to search for them?
There were quite a few emotive responses, understandably the majority were from ex- Royal Welchmen. issues discussed were the actual almalgamation, the proposed new cap badge, uniform and Regimental colours.
Scouse
Welcome J, an interesting question, I think you may open up a can of worms here.
Personally, I switched to the RWF from the Welch Regiment when they were just about to amalgamate with the SWB (to become RRW). I changed mainly because my platoon commander at the time in JIB Shorncliffe was RWF. He encouraged me to change giving me several reasons but I think he just wanted me to play rugby for the RWF rather than the RRW. LOL
I think you will find that most people will be upset by the the fantastic history of a regiment coming to an end.
I eagerly await other peoples answers.
Dilwyn
Hi Jordan
Amalgamation, good or bad? Realistically, amalgamation has to better than total Disbandment and therefore (as a comparison) it must be a good thing. As in all matters Human however, few people like change and many will resist for as long as possible. When you have served with a regiment, you adopt a certain pride and loyalty that you do not find outside of the services, (that is my personal opinion) and once you have that feeling it does not leave you.
If you look at the Amalgammation, there are still Two Regular Welsh Infantry Regiments- no change, so why go through the process of changing Names, Colours, Capbadges, Belts etc . It must have been a very costly exercise which has achieved what? I served with the 1st Battalion The Royal Welch Fusiliers as did my father before me and we were both proud to do so. He is no longer with us but if he were, he (as I do) would still feel the same sense of pride in the Regiment as it is named today as he had when he served. Good luck with your Dissertation Jordan
Hia, J. I came to the RWF from a regiment that was disbanded in 1968 that was formed from the RWF (23rd) in 1756! Confusing I know but I was glad to have been allowed to do that and, although quite sad on that cold, blizzard day back in March 2006 in Cardiff, amalgimated regiments are surely better that disbanded ones. Good luck.
Neil Wilson. Former Durham Light Infantry and 1st Royal Welch Fusiliers.
J, The forming of The Royal Welsh was as a result of a 'merger' and not an 'amalgamation' of two fine Welsh Infantry Regiments (The Royal Welch Fusiliers and The Royal Regiment of Wales).Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Oliver
I personally as a serving soldier/officer see only positives in the merger.
Interesting that you prefer "Merger" Dave. To "Merge" - To cause to blend, fuse or to be absorbed so as to lose identity. " Amalgamate" -To mix so as to make a unified whole; Blend; Unite; Combine.Quote:
Originally Posted by davecrim
I have to say that think Amalgamate seems more appropriate and positive. For Jordans benefit (his dissertation) could you expand on the positives that you see as a serving officer and perhaps someone else on the Forum could give an alternative view - for balance.
Ive got to agree with you Gwyn, though i understand where Dave is coming from, i think the powers above wanted it seen as a merger but how much itentity did they want to loose? I personaly dont feel that either regiment has lost much identity, although it has confused a lot of the civpop. Good luck J.
may be you could post your dissertation on here when its finished for some intresting reading.
sox
I have to say that I am suprised at the response to this thread. A view on the "shade" of the New Colours almost started WWIII yet there have been 90+ hits on this thread and only 7 replies.
Jordan perhaps you could be more specific in the information you would like. For example the cost in personal financial terms to individuals who were serving at the time of the "Amalgamation". e.g Mess Dress, which is paid for by each individual. Leading questions may get a better response than "Good or Bad"(unless of course that is all you wish to know).
Hi Jordon
Well an interesting question but rather broad I would argue for a dissertation title!
Perhaps you would want to narrow your question to look at what was the rationale for the amalgamation in terms of the MOD's perspective. Was it driven by outside influences i.e. the Americanisation of institutions as a whole.
Or perhaps you would like to explore what traditions have been adopted by the new Royal Welsh that have come from both the antecendent regiments.
The title as you have expressed would be difficult to research even for a PhD thesis. Send me a personal message and I'll try and explain further as I have a lot of experience in writing both dissertations and indeed a thesis.
Paul Hinge
Hello Gwyn Nicholas,
From the info I have, it appears that all regiments that merge/ amalgamate have to have a new cap badge that is supposed to maintain the ethos and traditions of both regiments.It may well be that the new badge we now have may leave a lot of disgruntled people out there.!!!!!
This becomes much more important and leaves a lot to speculate over when the "Jocks" were merged where did the rule of thumb go to then???? The same rule applies to the Queens and Regimental colours, but this also causes confusion and discord when one or the other Regiments in the merger have battle honours that they never won!!!!! pro bono publico.
Regards Don aka Jungle1810
I believe Amalgamation is the right word, and yes it was a sad day as far as I am concerned. I also believe that Gwyn makes a lot of sense in the fact that at the end of it all we still have 2 Welsh Regiments, so what was the point in it all anyway.
Hi Don.Quote:
Originally Posted by jungle1810
I think it is fair to say that every Almalgamation/Merger leaves a lot of disgruntled people, not just in the Services.
The fact is, that most will move on and those who move on the quickest are generally looked upon or identified as Leaders. In my opinion the history of the Royal Welch Fusiliers is a glorious one and nothing but nothing will change it! These changes physically affect those who still serve with the Regiment whether it be the 1st or 2nd Battalion and these are the people who will continue to write the future history of the Regiment. Perhaps you could PM Jordan or better still, (for the benefit of the Forum) post your thoughts on the afore mentioned Amalgamation/Merger question. I'm sure Jordan would be grateful for any feedback. PS Your Exclamation and Question mark button appears to be sticking. Regards Gwyn
i am not sure if this answer will help you at all, but i am sure that every man jack who has served with the 1st Bn the Royal Welch fusiliers would reply when asked, "once a Royal Welchman, ALWAYS a Royal Welchman.
Hey J,
Where are you? Several people have commented and we have seen no response from you. Just wondering if you are still out there and taking notes.
Dilwyn
As a previous writer has said, "there has been threads on the subject of the merger/amalgamation" and this curent thread in my opinion is one that is just opening old wounds.
The majority of the "old foggies" like me that use the Forum are ROYAL WELCHMEN and will always be regardless of merger/amalgamation or disbandment.
Having said that, we must support the new ROYAL WELSHMEN in all that they do and achieve, especially over the next 18 months.
The merger took place over 3 years ago, and the subject of dress, colours and alike should now be put to bed for ever.
Roger this thread was opened by a young student who is trying to pick the brains of the people he believes may give him some answers in order to complete his dissertation. Who knows what he can glean from this site. Hopefully a serving member will come on and give a view from the present as I'm sure he already has the feeling from ex-serving members Ie your comment on "Old wounds"
As Hingey has advised, perhaps his questions should be more specific and has offered his experience to assist him.
I think it is great that a young person should come to a site like this to seek guidance, and I will gladly give up my time to help him if I posssibly can.
Ok, I agree if the questions would have been more specific, I would not have brought up the comments that I have made. I also agree that help should be given where possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyn Nicholas
Hello Gwyn,
You are absolutely right in all your answers to this thread. I am firmly of the opinion it is soley a matter for serving soldiers to address. Re my punctuation,there are a couple of reasons for any errors. Firstly I am awaiting operations to both my eyes to correct cataracts, and I have also been diagnosed with glaucoma in my right eye.The second /third is I had an elementary school education.My son who had a university education is proof reading and correcting the punctuation in a book I have just written. I did pass my first and second education army certificates in 1952, the second fault is I have hands like a side of beef, and press two keys together.I have to read all my e mails at least twice and even then have to edit them.
Re the colours it is a sad fact that comrades opinions(by definition former serving soldiers) were not taken in to account, or their views taken into consideration when the colours came up for review.I read this bit of information in a document sent to me over the way the colours were to be revised.The man who has visited this site for his studies will need the views of the younger element. I freely acknowledge that my dinosaur mentality comes to the fore front when the merger/amalgamation is discussed But I am glad I am not serving in today's army( no disrespect is meant to the Royal Welchmen or other regiments or corps)serving at present.My reason for this is I believe we should learn from history. the "Iron Duke"aka The Duke of Wellington went to fight in Afghanistan as a young officer, he was later recognised to be one of the best generals the army ever had and he was stated to have said in his autobiography "That European soldiers should not be expected to serve in this theatre of war." I will not go into Napolean's retreat from Moscow and Hitlers decision to open a second Eastern front against his general's wishes.(Operation Barbarossa)
RBD