Here is the new Regimental Colour, (click on ther image to enlarge it). What do members think of it?
http://www.rwf-forum.co.uk/misc_pix/img376.jpg
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Here is the new Regimental Colour, (click on ther image to enlarge it). What do members think of it?
http://www.rwf-forum.co.uk/misc_pix/img376.jpg
It's very erm? Green
They've spelt Welch wrong
It looks very RRW ish to me!!I can't see any Maroon or Blue in there! At least it has Bravo Company emblem bang in the middle, as it should be!!!
Totally agree with Scouse on this one, including the comment about the Bravo Coy emblem.
Where's the 'Fusilier' connection?
Quote:
Originally Posted by daibeer
dont like it to much rrw and not enough 1RWF sorry:shocked::shocked:Quote:
Originally Posted by neil(george)wilson
I agree with most of the comments where,s the connection to the 23rd of Foot, now I know they have gone - Its like looking at someone Else's colours
Sad, as a Royal Welchman the Colours were very special and when on parade they held a sence of Pride I don't see it here sorry
GREEN BEYOND BELIEF!
Extract from the Col of the Regt R Welsh:
CEREMONIAL DRESS:
Colour Parties: will Scarlets, Bearskins(Officers, Warrant Officers, Fur Caps (BUZBies), Csgts).
Regtl Band Head Dress: Bearskins Drum Major, Fur Cap Director of Music.
Regtl Pioneers: Fur Caps. Apron Pin Large Regtl Cap Badge.
Drummers: Fur Caps.
Goat Majors: Colonial White Helmets (Pith Helmet).
Jacket Facings: Notwithstanding the green facing colour of the Regtl Colour, the Regtl Facing Colour on Scarlets and Mess Dress to be Dark Blue (Collars and Cuffs) Colour Belts and Drums to be Green.
Regtl Goats: I agreed to an exception regarding Goats. The Goats of the 2nd and 3rd Bns should wear a Green Goat Coat; the 1st Bn Goat should not wear a Coat.
I seek to have all this completed by 1st March 2009, with possible exception of sufficient Scarlets for 3 Colour Parties. All is subject to approvall by the ADC.
Me for one, believes that this is now the final chapter of the proud traditions and most customs of our glorious RWF past. I wish the Royal Welsh, well in the future.
A very saddened ex RWF Soldier, (Long Live the Royal Welch Fusiliers Comrades' Association)
Yours
BennytheBall
Apart from Company badges its RRW who where 37 years old not RWF 316 years 349 days old
They must have a very good supply of green paint and material left over from the RRW, so I suppose it has to be used up, when it runs out we may see some maroon and blue.
Joe.
I if we been twined with the Grenadier Guards we could of kept the Maroon & Blue "That's a thought"
No may be not, but it would be nice to hang on to some colour
Are we just set in our ways, or are our ways set, whatever to Green for me!
Yes I agree that it is so much RRW, throw a bit of maroon and blue amongst it so it will look like the ROYAL WELCH had some input on it!!:realmad:
I dont think there is enough green on that one.....!
However....i believe its now time to move on. Regiments, Battalions, amalgamate and change and will continue to do so...look at what happend to the DERR, Glosters, RGBW, D&D...they came off a lot worse! So i dont think we got a bad deal.
I for one believe that Tony Blair, Geoff Hoon and Gen Mike Jackson has completed their mission is desimating the old Family Regimental System, In the near future young soldiers will be saying "who were these regiments the RWF & RRW"? Because they only exsist in Comrades' Associations and Museums. Of course, except for the brackets on Brackets off after each Bn.
Young lads or ladies today, when joining the Army in this day and age don't realise the value of the Regimental System that we knew and I think really don't have any preference to what cap badge or Colours they serve under, to them its just a dangerous job. ( I'm putting on my "Flak Jacket and Helmet" for the comments that will be said but its a real world out there).
As the Hon Secretary of a branch in the RWFCA, am I really bothered what happens now to the new Royal Welsh as long as it does effect my branch and the RWFCA let them get on with it and good luck to them for the future.
I'll step down off my "soap Box" now
Yours
BennytheBall
I don't think its a case of who came of best that's long gone (Shame for all) that is not the issue here, In fact I believe as far as the change of Regiments all have moved on,the issue in this thread is the Colours! which have only recently been chosen "correct me if I am wrong"
And what has come out of this is our personal views, it wont change anything this we know but this is where as members of the forum we air and share!
Barry (Moved on)
Off soap box handed back to CQMS
Gents I think some of you are missing the point these are the Regimental Colours of the new Regiment, the colour of The Colours has little to do with the past, it is the Battle Honours shown on them that remembers the bravery and history of those who have gone before from 23rd, 24th, 41st and 69th of Foot.
For those of us who served in the 23rd we can always go to St Giles's in Wrexham to see the old Colours when we feel a bit nostalgic.
true what you say mike but the point majority are making is the actual colour is all RRW, if they were maroon and blue all the RRW would say the same as us. New regiment new colours either mixture of both or completely neutral to both regiments but very welsh like RED with a bit of whiteQuote:
Originally Posted by mikedonnelly
only joking with the next part but some might like it
Barry John top left hand corner phil Bennet top right
and Gareth Edwards in the centre
Hello Guv,
Re your point about spelling. I have been trying for over 3 years to get Cardiff to correctly address my mail.I have lost count of the number of letters I have sent back to Cardiff marked FREEPOST. I doubt very much if they will alter their ways despite my best attempts to expedite matters. As a matter of fact the last letter re the new colours was in correctly addressed.
Regards RBD aka "DON"
A sad day and I agree with everyones comments initial reaction RRW. Yes my career may be over but it still hurts and maybe if I was still serving going through the changes I would feel different? Mike 100% correct mate and I know from the 8 years in Oldham when they changed the county boundrys for the Regiments RRF, Kings, Cheshires unless the young lad had a family conection the majority just wanted a job. I know its differant in Wales but Benny is spot on. Role on the Leauge of Friends & the comrades weekend no one can take them off us.
Hello Mike Donnelly,
Your post mentions the 23rd 24th and the 41st. Query which 24th of foot did you mean.??? Y Cymro lists 16 V.C's won by the 24th we all know this was the Warwickshire Regiment who won these medals in the Andaman islands, Isandlwana, Rorkes Drift, Ashantee, and Zululand. All these are listed as the 24th Regiment, but to me it is like a subliminal advert. Why not list them as the WARWICKSHIFRE REGIMENT after all it was the Warwickshire Regiment that won all these V,.C's. Another point is the fact that at best only two Welsh men won the V.C. in the South African wars. these were Fielding aka Williams and Jones, Both of these men were born in Monmouth and at the time of the Defence of Rorkes Drift took place Monmouth was in ENGLAND. So maybe they were ENGLISH what do you reckon.I think maybe the correct place to hold a RORKES DRIFT dinner would be STRATFORD ON AVON. I welcome your prognostications on my e mail.
Regards RBD aka "DON"
I would just like to make my last comment on the this subject of the new regiment's colours, as stated by Barry 69 everyone can have their opinion on the matter and I just "aired" my personal opinion and this was not intended to cause any dispondency or to upset any Forum Member, Comrades or any member of the new regiment, if I have, I apologise. Barry 69 and Mike Donnelly are correct in stating that people where missing the point on the new regiments colours, and I for one totally agree, I was giving my personal opinion only on the matter and I believe that this forum allows us members' to do that.
In not condradicting my personal opinion, our branch members' will still have an interest and give their support to the new regiment in any shape or form as does the 1st Bn with our RWFCA, and we have to thank them for that.
I work with many Royal Welsh soldiers on a day to day basis and hear their views and opinions (especially from the older ones who had served with the RWF) and their comments are the same as mine but they are told to get on with it, which they do in a very professional way and I for one praise them for that.
Yours
BennytheBall
I have my opinions about the new Regiment which I will keep to myself, but as the Banner says at the top, we are Royal Welch, and as it has been said by others we will remain so with the L of O, the RWF Comrades Association and of course this forum. There is nothing we can do about the GREEN or anything else about what is going on with the Regiment, but we can be positive and proactive and support the 1st Bn the Royal Welsh (Royal Welch Fusiliers) and also support the RWF CA and the Forum.
I honestly think we should put the threads us and them to bed now,there are now 2 regiments ROYAL WELSH,so let them get on with it,we had a wonderful regiment so lets just remember what was a great regiment,the new Batallions now have to go forward and create there own identities,the old ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS will never be forgotten,to much great history and a great bunch of guys who served in it.
and thats me jumping off the bandwagon.........
I agree Keith, and as I said above, lets concentrate on who we are, Royal Welchmen and not on the battle between the two rgts/bns.
Hello Jungle1810,
I dont belive we have meet however i can see you are a well read and proud Royal Welchman as am I, Having served in the 23rd for 23 years and my last post being as the RSM of The 3rd Battalion and now just entering my 33rd year of service currently as the RQMS of The 3rd Bn The Royal Welsh i have allways kept in mind the words: People who live in Glass Houses should not throw stones:
As we all know the 23rd of foot "Herberts Regiment" was raised at Ludlow (England) in March 1689 and it was not untill 1702 that we were given the title "The Welsh Regiment of Fuziliers" and in recognition of its distinguished service during Marlborough's campaigns Queen Anne dubbed it "Our Royal Regiment of Welsh Fuziliers. (Nothing stays the same)
As to the VC's
Maj Gen Luke O'Connor VC Born Ireland 1849.
Maj Gen Edward Bell VC Born Essex 1824.
Cpl Joseph Davies VC Born Staffordshire 1916.
Pte Albert Hill VC Born Manchester 1895.
And i could go on and on. So where do you suggest we celebrate the Battle of ALMA.
As i have said in previous posts those of us who were lucky enough to have served in the 23rd should cherish those memories and support those who go after us after all it is they who will put new Battle Honours on Their Colours, ours will be hanging in St Giles Church for all to see.
As everyone can see from the posts that have been submitted, there are passions for each Regiment, and rightly so, but what has been done to forge the Regiments together has been done
I myself served 15 years with the 1 RWF and although there were some bad times, as i look back i can see all the good times, with all the great characters that made it so good
We all know are Regimental historys, and the who won what, where and when but one thing is now for certain - we are all "Royal Welsh men" and like the new Battalions, move forward as one
1756. A second battalion of the 23rd, raised in Leicester recruited in County Durham. Later to be the 68th of foot and later still,
The Durham Light Infantry. Colours very green..!
Hello Mike,
You missed my point. My e mail referred to the VCs won by the 24th (Warwickshire Regiment), not the RWF. The RWF are laying claim to the VCs they won, not another Regiment's VCs - as the list in Y Cymro is showing.
Many myths are doing the rounds in South Wales. Namely the Warwicks won the most VCs in A SINGLE BATTLE - simply not true!
In fact there were a record 24 VCs won at the Relief of Lucknow in a 24 hour period in 1857. 20 VCs were won at the Redan on the 18th June 1855; there were 19 awarded at the Battle of Inkerman in 1854; 17 VCs were awarded for the Sikander Dag in 1855; 12 VCs were awarded for the Great Redan; 11 VCs were awarded for the Drift - SEVEN of which went to "B" Coy the 2nd Warwicks.
These awards were spread out over 14 MONTHS, so this makes the defence of the Drift SIXTH in line for the most VCs won in a single action.
Another myth is stated to be that the Warwicks won 11 VCs - not true! They won 7; the others were won by the Commisariat (RASC as we knew it) The medical establishment (RAMC as we knew it) and the Natal Native Contingent and the Royal Engineers etc.
The new regimental formation is listed as winning 43 VCs, yet only one Regiment is listed as having at least 10 VCs, or more won, in a list run by the VC web site naming Regimental Museums who fall into the above category and that is the RWF. Neither the South Wales Borderers or The Welsh regiment are listed!
I take your point about my prediliction for reading. I am a great lover of the truth and my peers who I look up to in this field include Thomas Paine, John Hancock, Benjamin Franklin and last, but not least, Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
I freely admit and thank all who read my e-mails and I support them and their right to express their point of view with out let or hinderance and will fight to preserve that right to the "NTH" degree whether they agree with my views or not. After all this, this is what we all fought to preserve, whether we were National Service men or career soldiers. I have taken the trouble to try and correct a lot of errors that go the rounds.
Another subject that is a complete anathema to me is the lack of veracity of the BBC and local editors when giving un qualified accounts of the defence of the Drift. I was also under the distinct impression that history could not be changed but we have all witnessed two glaring events that have proved many pundits, myself included, as being wrong. I most sincerley hope that the two German Nationals who won the VC do not turn up, for what ever reason, in our new list of VC winners.
In conclusion, if I can be of help to any one on the forum please sing out and I will do my best, but that is not an absolute guarantee of being right all the time (Tongue in cheek).
Mike are you going to the LOF in April? If you are, we can meet and have a drink. Otherwise, there is a motorway named the M4 and it will take you to CF31 4 RE.
I now rest my case m'Lud. RIP
Regards "DON" aka RBD
Doln
It is time to move on. The original thread was about the Regimental Colours of the Regiment and not about the VCs won by the SWB/RRW and the Drift.
There are a minority of the forum that still dont agree with the merger, and I will not deny, that I am one, but as I have said and others have also said also, there is nothing that can be done, so it is time to move on.
We are all Royal Welchmen (or Royal Welshmen), which ever you prefer, and we should be looking to the future and not looking backwards.
Got to agree with Roger. I suppose everyone who has commented on this thread have thier own personal reasons for being for or against the original question posed by Don. I for one was against, however as I alluded to above, that was for personal reasons and nothing else. It therefore takes me back to 1986 when I remember a phrase we had on a platoon sweatshirt. "Who Cares Who Wins, Let's Party"! (RWFCA), (LOF).
Gentlemen,
We are all very proud of our former Regiments and rightly so. I have worked with Karl ( RSM 3 ROYAL WELSH) and Wayne Roberts (RSM 1 ROYAL WELSH) over the last 10 months and we are continuing to move the Regiment forward as one.
The focus for the Regiment this year is operations, C Coy 2 Royal Welsh have now deployed to Afgan and A Coy 2 ROYAL WELSH will deploy the same time as the 1st Battalion this year with B (Rorke's Drift) Coy deploying mid 2010. Supported again by members of 3 ROYAL WELSH.
So at some stage this year we will have welsh soldiers from all 3 Battalions serving in Afgan. These soldiers from whatever Battalion they come from have one thing in common, they are Welsh Infantry and in my eyes they are all true WELSH WARRIORS.
I am sure that you will join me in wishing them all a safe and successful tour.
Dai 29
RSM
2 ROYAL WELSH
<!-- / message -->
I agree with all what has been said with regard to the three battalions and what Dai 29 has said.
I know that there was great rivalry between 1 RWF and 1 RRW, but all must agree when in need (remember Belfast 1981) we work together and I believe that is how we should go forward as one Regiment with three Bn's, all working for the same goal - that goal being the
BEST REGIMENT IN THE BRITISH ARMY
Sounds like your a man with an axe to grind and a chip on the shoulder. Sorry no-one from the RRW side bit and gave you the pleasure you obviously seek. As everyone has said the thread was about the colours and not VC's. Long live the Royal Welsh and may they all come home safely from operations.Quote:
Originally Posted by jungle1810
Thanks for your comment Dai and to a point I agree with you but that aside may I take this opportunity to remind you that whilst there are mainly men on this forum there are many women too?! Some are or have been wives, girlfriends etc, some have been a part of the Regiment in other capacities but we are ALL woman believe me!!Quote:
Originally Posted by dai29
So please be an angel and don't forget us next time you pop a comment on the forum!
Thanks
Anita x
Anita,
Sorry, I did not mean to leave you ladies out, they say that behind every good man is a good woman.
I am not sure if I am a good man but I have a good woman. My wife Julie has followed me around the world for many a year.
We pride ourselves on being a family Regiment and it,s important that this continues, especialy now we have soldiers deployed on operations.
We just finished a St Davids weekend in Cardiff, guarding the Castle and it was a pleasure to see so many family members come along to cheer on thier sons, the families officer Capt Crimmins also organised a coach to come down from Tidworth.
I totaly agree with you that the Regiment is not just the soldiers its the family and friends that makes us complete.
A DEWI SANT
Dai 29
RSM
2 ROYAL WELSH
Dai, I have come to respect the 'opposition' as the RRW were known to me. As you say we are now one regiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by dai29
Rog
Mat,Quote:
Originally Posted by UKSniper
Not only that, it's poor history - and I couldn't be bothered to respond. As I have outlined in a previous post, calling the (Pre-Cardwell Reform) 24th 'The Warwickshires' would be akin to calling the 1st Bn 'The Cheshires' or 2nd Bn 'The Wiltshires' - it was a unofficial nickname to give character to numbered Regiments of the Line; and rather like our incorporation of 'Welsh Warriors' as a strapline on training kit and publicity material, 'The Warwickshires' was sometimes included on Shako Plates...this said, the Regiment had been Garrisoned in Brecon since 1873, and had, as Donald Morris (in The Washing of the Spears) and David Rattray (in Day of the Dead Moon) "...adopted a distinctly Welsh personality" by 1879 (perhaps these are slightly more reputable historians).
It is now more a source of amusement to read Don's reworking of histories than to respond to them...:biglaugh:
Evening all!
I've been reading this thread with interest for the past few days now and have decided to add my two pence worth!
To start with what the thread is actually about, the new Regimental Colours. I like them and think the Royal Welch Fusiliers are well represented on them ie- Dragon rampant, rising sun etc. As for the backround colour, it could be pink for I care! It's the battles emblazoned on it that are important. I had the honour on friday to talk to a veteran of Arakan and Kohima, which was very humbling. We all go on about Iraq and Afghan these days, what he went through in those battles you couldn't begin to imagine. That's what these Colours represent, people like him who went through hell and came out the other side. It also represents those who were not so lucky. Men from all the Former regiments which make up our new regiments proud history.
As for the old Rourkes Drift arguement, it's getting a bit boring now. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But the VCs won in this action, possibily the most famous action ever fought by an British infantry unit, are part of the Royal Welsh and I for one am extremely proud to now be associated to it. As for the point that the majority of VC winners in this action were english. I'm English, I was also a Royal Welchman and I am now a Royal Welshman. I really do not see the point in even mentioning it.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes, we loved the Royal Welch and the guys who served in the RRW loved the RRW. We have great memories, but that's what they are now, memories. This new Regiment will do the former regiments proud this coming year against a tenacious Enemy and write a new chapter in the story of the Welsh Soldier.
Si
Proud to have been a Royal Welchman, Proud to be a Royal Welshman.
Well done mate, I just wish more people could see what you can see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Si29