By TOM NEWTON DUNN
Defence Editor
Published: Today
TEN soldiers just back from the frontline face the boot for drug use.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle1767365.ece
Printable View
By TOM NEWTON DUNN
Defence Editor
Published: Today
TEN soldiers just back from the frontline face the boot for drug use.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle1767365.ece
Thats not good news for the Bn let alone the Army.
Its a reflection on the world we live in, some of these guys will have real regrets of their actions in years to come. If some of them have used in order to get discharged, that would be a massve indictment of the govenments lack of meaningful support for the forces these last few years. However there should be no leniancy, they knew the armys attitude to drugs when they joined. If the media is correct and that 90% of them tested positive for a Class A drug, that is a massive worry and needs sorting rapidly ....so its bye-bye for these boys...Very sad and very stupid
A total disgrace. anyone taking drugs will get a Dishonourable Discharge. There is no excuse for it.
I am in sympathy with them, but only the they are treated. The MOD Should do more to give them more Leave & more time to spend with their families. My friends son who is in the police gets £2000 take home pay a month well deserved,
so why do our service men & women get peanuts. In my day {TheSixties} if i remember you could buy oneself out for £250 in 3/4 months.
Please correct me if i am wrong.
Sixties is right, of course, but how 'important' or 'embarrassing' is a Dishonourable Discharge these days?. Our society has degraded so much over the last 11 years (nothing to do with Tony Bliar nor Gordon McBroon, of course) that, like an ASBO, a DD will be accepted as a 'badge of honour' for one who has rebelled against 'the establishment'.
Hi Sixties. Unfortunatley discharge by purchase as you indicated has changed a great deal over the years. When I left in 1994 it was compicated enough, but I'm sure A recruiting specialist on the forum could explain the current criteria for leaving the service. Unfortunately, when the system becomes increasingly difficult, desperate people will resort to desperate measures to achieve their aim. For now the shame is with 1 Royal Welsh but I think over the coming year it will be another regiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by sixties
When I served with the TA as a PSI, I was warned that TA soldiers " vote with their feet" when things do not go their way .( I never experienced that however) Well, these soldiers if you like, are "voting with their feet" With the ammount of deployments our forces have had to deal with along with the lack of support from the Government and not forgetting the lack of support from the public, what are they to do? I do not condone the use of drugs (for real or as a ploy to get ones way) having never served under the pressure that these young people are under now, I do not know how I would cope.
I would like to think that the majority of those caught, already regret the measures they have taken ( not just because they have been caught) and I hope that their drug problem is not a real one. Who knows, in the long term it may help to make this Government see that there is a serious problem within our armed forces that needs addressing. Nelson Mandela was once considered a Terrorist. He is now the father of South Africa.
Is being thrown out of the services a dishonarable or administrative discharge. In our days if your were thrown out of the services, your chances of getting a good job outside were nil. Under current rules, an employer cannot give a bad reference, so the servicesman leaving does not have to say why he was 'thrown out'.
I believe those soldiers on an Open Engagement (introduced 1 Jan 91 for all new recruits) cannot apply to PVR:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyn Nicholas
Premature Voluntary Release on Payment
9.415. General instructions
After the period during which a soldier may claim his discharge as a recruit has expired, he may terminate his Colour service before it is due to end by applying for premature voluntary release on payment.
No soldier has a legal right to end his service in this way, as it is a privilege which may be withheld or deferred at any time by the Defence Council, as distinct from the normal restrictions that are imposed by para 9.416.
A soldier enlisted on the Open Engagement may not apply for premature voluntary release on repayment. A soldier serving on a S Type Engagement is eligible to apply for premature voluntary release on repayment under the same conditions as a soldier serving on the Notice Engagement.
After their intial 3 month period they are in. The next time they can consider release is to give 12 months notice anytime after their 3 year point. Though as in a lot of cases no one is kept in with problems. The majority who do get out are back knocking at the door to get back in, after they have tasted life out side.
These individuals should have no sympathy. How many times have lads been caught on the CDT who have taken drugs in the RWF only to have their hands slapped and then allowed to stay in.
Only a complete retard takes drugs in the Army. It doesnt matter how many tours or how difficult the situation was, taking illegal substances whilst serving makes them a risk to them selves and to others. My opinion is that If they have taken drugs to get out of the Army then they should get a dishonorable discharge and not recieve their Army pension.
Theres no excuse.
quite right stu, well put
The Famous words of my old Pl Sgt Paul Nash whilst in Irelnd in 86 "Quote" You Pays your money and you takes your chances! No Sympathy I am afraid
"Thats Life" get on with it.
Spot on Stu. At least one member of this website fought the Japanese along Railway Corridor in Burma 1944-45 as a fusilier with 2 RWF. I suspect that was pretty tough as well, and there would have been a distinct lack of Class A drugs in his ration pack(if the supply drops arrived). Its shamefull, and detracts from the outstanding work the guys(and girls) have done over the last couple of years.Quote:
Originally Posted by stu reed
Its also true that anyone who has served in the last 30 yrs would have most likely been offered the chance to partake in some recreational drugs. You make your decision knowing the consequences, which when I was a Fusilier was 6months at Colly guaranteed and a dishonourable discharge. What an incentive.
Totaly agree there stu, theres was drugs kicking around in berlin, i remeber catching 3 lads locked in their room in A Coy with the roaches of the joints out side the window we placed em in plastic bag for rmp who the COS called out, we where told there was nothing we could do they got away with it.
There are genuine cases of people being spiked i know first hand as it happened to me, not a nice feeling and the hope of not getting CDT in that period and trying to convince people your not on drugs. I grew up in Cardiff with lads who where smoking joints daily and although i admit to trying it b4 i joined it was never for me. My son is 14 and wants to join the regiment hes alredy admitted to me hes tried class A drugs that are freely available in the schools. What can you do as a parent living with your kids let alone when you work abroard. So yes its back to the society issue i think, i bet at least 8 out of the 10 had tried them b4 they had joined. And like my son clearly states its peer pressure for most dad nothing else.
I also know a couple of 18 year old kids who had never taken drugs went off to Uni and had to be pulled out by their parents after a year, due to the total addiction they had. 2 bright kids ruined.
The other factor is the lads who do get caught probably dont even have to declare they where discharged for drugs when seeking employment.
The lads involved in this scandal have only themselves to blame. No one forced them into the careers office, they made their own way there and I`m sure like mine, their parents and mates were very proud of them for doing so. They were aware of the theatres they may be deployed to and I`m sure they`ve received a few free drinks on the back of the tales they have told.
I read one blokes comments about drugs being the only way out of the army, B******S there is another way out, keep your head down and do your time, then once it`s done come out and hold your head up high.
Sorry but no sympathy from me! Please discuss ;-)
I agree with all the comments made above, apart from blame the goverment syndrome! what's the goverment got to do with it? these lads have taken class A drugs which is against the law, there is no excuse for it, there should definitely be no sympathy for their irresponsible actions, Get Rid soonest, goodbye!
If our troops are overstretched, if they are poorly equipped, if the army is 2000 men understrength, if accomodation is substandard for single and married men, if operational tours of duty a coming around faster than they ever were and if morale is low within the forces, and if military hospitals are wanted but are being denied, I would say that those are problems that the Government should be dealing with! This is not a "blame the Government syndrome" this is stating a fact. If things do not improve within the Armed forces more of these problems will arise. I can remember hearing of soldiers pretending to be Gay to get out of the Army. That of course no longer works so, the Ante has been put up. Of course I do not have any sympathy for the individuals who took part, and I dont condone what they did. What I am saying is, throwing out (as they will) these soldiers will remove the bad apples for now, but the underlining problems may still remain unless the points I mentioned are addressed and are being seen as being addressed by the people who are afterall servants to the public not the other way around. That is only my humble opinion of course.
As recruiting Officer for SE Wales I get to see and talk to a lot of satisfied soldiers attached to us for 1-2 weeks. I spoke with two 1st Bn young fusiliers (12 Pl D Coy) attached to the Pontypridd office today.Both lads have been in for less than three years and already both have done tours in IRAQ and Afghanistan and are justifiably proud of the Bn and what they have achieved.I asked them what they thought of the latest drugs saga effecting the Regt they said they thought the soldiers involved were stupid as the rules are well known and with the currant job situation likely to get much worse they may well live to regret their actions.From my own perspective I fail to see how you can blame the MOD or government for their actions I also dont believe they were all looking at using this to gain release from the Army they were plainly stupid and believed like many that they would not get caught.This is not a dig at the 1st Bn, soldiers from the 2nd Bn were caught out in Ballykelly and London a few years back.
Once again (and for the final time, I promise). I do not blame the MOD or anyone else for the actions of these soldiers! They are big enough and ugly enough to make their own decisions. I am merely pointing out that there are many problems that need addressing within our forces. I dont think that the "stick" is enough. As for asking two young soldiers with three years service how they feel, I would imagine at that stage they must be revelling in what they are doing. Go back and ask a couple of pads with 6,7,9 years service and see if you get the same adrenalin filled replies. I also speak to soldiers from time to time ( and not as a recruiting officer) and the views (which differ) are not nearly as positive as the response you recieved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyn Nicholas
I also promise this is my last submission on this subject.Gwyn is probably correct in that soldiers/NCO who have faced back to back tours will have a different outlook to single soldiers who may find the current OPS very exciting etc.However if it is true that some older NCOs and Soldiers would wish to leave surely it is better to sign off try to complete your last 12 months and leave with honour rather than be kicked out for disciplinary/drug reasons. There is also the financial loss pension etc to be taken into account. With regard to job seekers, many potential employers do ask for written references I get several such requests every month.
I spoke to my son about this (he's currently serving in the Royal Engineers) and he wasn't shocked at all. He says that it is common place in the army and he knows of soldiers even selling drugs to suppliment their income. Luckily for me he utterly condems anyone trying or using drugs (to be honest he hates being around anyone who smokes) as he says he gets a better buzz going out and getting bladdered with his mates once in a while, ok he gets an horrendous hangover but at least he knows he's not going to have the shame of being kicked out of the army hanging over him for the rest of his life.
Hello Gwyn old mate! I am sorry if it sounded like I was getting at you with my 'Blame the Goverment' syndrome, I wasn't
I do get annoyed when I hear people laying blame on the goverment for everything that goes wrong with our present society, you are right in what you are saying the MOD must get it's act together to improve our lads working and living conditions, I heard on the news this morning Defence expenditure is at it'd lowest for god knows how many years, and the country is effectively at war on terror.
And I also get's first hand feedback on service life off my daughter and son in law who are both serving and both have been to Iraq and Afganistan and no doubt will return very soon again, but they tell me that on a whole morale in the forces is not as bad as the press make out it is.
They also said those soldiers who take drugs are a waste of space anyway and the forces would be better off without them.
Totally agree with you Ianto
I never take it personally Ianto. As ever you and Colin John debate your corner very well! Hope you are well old friend.