Our forces can't carry on like this, says General Sir Richard Dannatt

This has been lifted from the ARRSE site, it deserves full dissemination.

The Telegraph on 17/11/07

By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent

Last Updated: 9:29pm GMT 17/11/2007

The head of the Army has warned that years of Government under-funding and overstretch have left troops feeling "devalued, angry and suffering from Iraq fatigue", The Sunday Telegraph can reveal.

General Sir Richard Dannatt, the Chief of the General Staff, reveals in a top-level report that the present level of operations is "unsustainable", the Army is "under-manned" and increasing numbers of troops are "disillusioned" with service life.

Gen Dannatt states that the "military covenant is clearly out of kilter", and the chain of command needs to improve standards of pay, accommodation and medical care.

"We must strive to give individuals and units ample recuperation time between operations, but I do not underestimate how difficult this will be to achieve whilst under-manned and with less robust establishments than I would like."

The report, a copy of which has been seen by this newspaper, reveals for the first time the general's concerns on virtually every aspect of the Army, from levels of pay to the quality of food in canteens.

Gen Dannatt came to public prominence last year when, within weeks of taking over as head of the Army, he said the Iraq war was causing security problems in Britain.

In the new report, he says that operations on the two fronts of Iraq and Afghanistan are putting soldiers and their families under "great pressure", and that the long-term impact of operations is "damaging" and is "mortgaging the goodwill of our people".

In terms of "overstretch", the report says, "the tank of goodwill now runs on vapour; many experienced staff are talking of leaving".

Last week, Lt Col Stuart Tootal, 42, who commanded the Parachute Regiment in Afghanistan, resigned from the Army over the "shoddy" treatment of injured troops. In a letter to defence chiefs, he was reported to have criticised levels of pay, a lack of training equipment and the appalling housing - all issues raised in Gen Dannatt's report.

The report lays bare how a lack of funding, resources and manpower are forcing defence chiefs into making decisions once considered unthinkable.

One such move includes sending "medically downgraded" or injured troops and soldiers as young as 17 to guard the Falkland Islands to release fit troops for operations - a move Gen Dannatt says he wholly supports.

The report adds:

• Delays to military inquests are a disgrace

• Military housing estates are unsafe and being overrun by immigrant families

• Poor food quality is creating a "pot-noodle and sandwich" culture among junior soldiers

• Work-life balance is an increasing concern

• Soldiers are "going sick" to get out of the Army

• Leave is often cancelled or constrained because of operational overstretch

• Harmony guidelines - the time between operational tours - are becoming meaningless

• The Army is no longer fun

• Fitness in the Army is tailing off and more soldiers are medically downgraded

The report's findings follow months of interviews with thousands of soldiers and their families from 47 units.

Entitled Chief of the General Staff's Briefing Team Report (2007), the findings are described by Gen Dannatt as a "comprehensive, vivid and accurate" picture of Army life.

He writes that "improvements need to be made in accommodation, pay and medical services" and that the "chain of command must still improve things" if more soldiers are to be recruited.

The general accepts the view that delays in holding military inquests are a "disgrace" and writes: "I share the frustration and know that many families feel let down by the process. The delays are unacceptable and I will continue to press for improvements."

Military housing is an area singled out for criticism. "Estates are becoming less safe and more run down. Some are degenerating - in Germany it is reported that many of the neighbouring areas are occupied by immigrant families with hordes of children.

This is of particular concern for wives when their husband is deployed [on operations]." In Britain, some service families' accommodation areas have "ex-married quarters owned by housing associations, and disruptive civilian families have moved in, causing concerns over vandalism and theft".

The report strongly criticises the "Pay As You Dine" policy of making soldiers pay for what they eat, which many in the Army call a "disaster".

It says: "There are real concerns about the new eating habits of some soldiers due to Pay As You Dine. A "pot noodle and sandwich" culture is being created and soldiers are cooking rations over gas burners in their rooms. There are apocryphal stories of soldiers flaking during PT sessions from a lack of nutrients".

The report adds: "Pay As You Dine was sold as a strap line of new restaurants, better choice and good quality. The reality is very different - for most, the only investment has been a till."

There is a growing problem of troops "going sick" to get out of the Army.

There is a lack of "training areas, range availability, shortages of ammunition, spares and manpower - which is limiting the amount of meaningful training that can be undertaken. There are insufficient serviceable aircraft for parachute training. Apache flying hours are limited by lack of serviceable aircraft".

Patrick Mercer, a Tory MP and former infantry commander, said: "These problem areas existed 10 years ago. Now we have a crisis and it is a disgrace that senior officers and ministers have allowed this to happen. I am staggered that the head of the Army thinks it acceptable to send kids and those medically unfit for war to guard the Falklands."

It's about time someone high up has come out and said what we all knew has been happening from the start of "options for change" in the early 90s, lets hope they do something about it now if it's not to late that is.

Well that is the second Gen (Gen Sir Micheal Jackson and Gen Sir Richard Dannatt) to come out and speak about the shoddy treatment of our troops this year, will this now work to improve things for our boys, i doubt it very much, the governments bean counters are only interested in saving money, even at the expence of our troops on the front line, as already stated, if nothing is done soon to improve food, housing and especially the equipment our boys are using, then time will come where things will be broken beyond repair. Surely if your 2 top Generals come out and attack the way that the forces are being neglected, then surely the government must address the issue - mus'nt they ? ? ? ? ?

It really does look as the army is being taken for second best, in there treatment the housing issue, and especially the food Pay as You Dine must be a concern, what a dull option, have you ever know a single soldier to still have cash in the last week of the month? He will starve or return home to be fed?

What happened to good Admin?

This is not something that has happened over night ether in the days of Ireland the tour turn around was shortened which also took in th Falklands and Bosnia, So the government has had ample time to put this right!

Its all about a duty of care, and em I guess they don't!:no:

And we thought we had a bad time with the kit we were given in the 70's to go on tour of Northern Ireland. I remember going to Andover market go buy a good wet proof jacket for a tour in the 70's

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Originally Posted by Lofty-23

Well that is the second Gen (Gen Sir Micheal Jackson and Gen Sir Richard Dannatt) to come out and speak about the shoddy treatment of our troops this year, will this now work to improve things for our boys, i doubt it very much, the governments bean counters are only interested in saving money, even at the expence of our troops on the front line, as already stated, if nothing is done soon to improve food, housing and especially the equipment our boys are using, then time will come where things will be broken beyond repair. Surely if your 2 top Generals come out and attack the way that the forces are being neglected, then surely the government must address the issue - mus'nt they ? ? ? ? ?

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Yes another GENERAL/KNIGHT has come out but quite frankly (call me a cynic if you will) but this man is a puppet for the MOD saying things that every one of us already knows, thus hoping to imply that something is going to be done in the near future. I have a great deal more respect for Lt Col Tootal who is making his stand and protest now long before the Honours and fat pension are lumped on him. Most of us (older-ish) will remember the shortages of equipment from the 80/90's even after the promise of a smaller but better equipped Service, and nothing has improved. In fact things seem much worse from what I read and hear. I have said before and still believe, if professional volunteer soldiers cannot be found to maintain our services, the only option will be National Service. I know that many will say "it will never happen" but think about it, if you cant get enough men and women recruited where do you get your forces? How much more of this 3rd class citizenship can/ will they take? I'm sure a "think tank" somewhere has worked out how many Billions of pounds can be saved by paying a conscript (basic wage) rather than a professional soldier. Makes my blood boil!!!

well its about time too. The only problem is really is the POLITICIANS. Insteadof looking after the troops they look after their own careers too much"too scared to rock the boat" and the goverments wallet. Hope the statement Al provided hits home and make these in goverment that without the contrabution of troops for the past decades,they would not be where thay are now.

Josk

Why dont the generals refuse to send the military out to these war zones ?
I Posted a question on the forum called DISGUST on the 16-11-2007 at 20.54,
why is it no longer there i posted it on the Q.reply, does that make a difference.
Can someone tell me why the RAF & NAVY Do not voice there opinions ?

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Originally Posted by sixties

I Posted a question on the forum called DISGUST on the 16-11-2007 at 20.54,
why is it no longer there

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You would need to start a new thread. Unless your replying to an existing message, in which case you could use "Quick Reply"

It has taken a long time for the General to come up with his comments, as for the "Pay as you dine policy" what a load of B*******, a soldier needs good grub to keep him going not snacks that he buys himself.
The people in command have an option if they totaly agree that things are going wrong, and that is to resign, at least they can afford to on the type of pension they will recieve, possibly that is why they have not so far.
Joe.

It just goes to show how much or rather little this government thinks of the men & women who are willing to stand up and say "I'm willing to put my life on the line to keep this country safe". My son is in Iraq and will be for Christmas and although he gets a 30 minute phone card a week free (which he and us are very grateful for) if he wants to keep in touch via email or msn etc he has to pay £5 for 2 hours on the computer. Wouldn't it boost moral that little bit more knowing that they could get in touch with home anytime they wished for free (something the American troops have had for a long time). I'm just waiting to see how much these politicians will award themselves when the next pay rise comes around.:arghh:

well Gen Jackson only commented on it after he had finished his time, so he gets no respect from me what so ever, he was to busy feathering his own nest and pension fund.

you can tell the chief of staffs briefing team what you like, does it ever work does any one ever realy listen na dont think so. I lwas asked my opinion on pay as you dine years ago and told them to go and research what happened to the american army when they brought it in. ( exactly what is happening now) The MOD are always the same lets make some cuts to save some money, but it always back fires due to lack of fore sight.

I was doing a security job the other month in the power station at aberthaw, one of my m8s who i was talking 2 had managed to purchase 3 houses at RAF St Athens, what happens now, The Mod decied that they are going to build a tri service camp but have sold all the houses, the MOD have to buy them back at market value, how many houses how much wasted cash that could have gone on equipment, ammo, weapons, housing, Not my m8s fault good luck to him hes made a tidy little packet.

It just makes me wonder some times who puts their stamp on these decisions and why they are not held accountable when some thing like this goes realy wrong.

As a Caretaker in a TA centre and an ex Royal Welch Fusilier, I can vouch for General Dannatt, That Morale is low amongst our soldiers of today, I know because I can see it 1st hand everyday, the lads are totally "P----d" off, by hearing some of their comments.
We Ex Royal Welchman were only talking about this problem not so long ago, we were saying that when we served, we worked hard and then "played" hard, but the poor soldier today is not getting any quality time to "Play" hard,(I don't mean on the "P--s" all the time,but going off to do some adventure training etc etc. Its either on operations or training for operations, as for pay as you dine and this JPA system ( what a bag of B----cks that is turning out to be). I believe that recruiting into the Army is not a problem, its keeping these young men & women in (Retention is the word that comes to mind). There is no "carrot" dangling anymore. On a final note as a father who has a son serving at this present time (and I hope that other parents who have family currently serving in our Armed Forces) feel that our brave men and women should now be treated with the highest esteem and priority and the MOD should now "Focus" on the real issues that are affecting our Armed Forces.

Yours A Proud Parent
BennytheBall

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Originally Posted by sox3044

well Gen Jackson only commented on it after he had finished his time, so he gets no respect from me what so ever, he was to busy feathering his own nest and pension fund.

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Agreed, he let himself and the army down badly. Its all very well battling behind closed doors, but if the civil service and ministers are not listening, you have to play by their rules, and this is what General Dannett appears to be doing. Good luck to him

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sox3044

one of my m8s who i was talking 2 had managed to purchase 3 houses at RAF St Athens, what happens now, The Mod decied that they are going to build a tri service camp but have sold all the houses, the MOD have to buy them back at market value, how many houses how much wasted cash that could have gone on equipment, ammo, weapons, housing, Not my m8s fault good luck to him hes made a tidy little packet.
.

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Good luck to him, but this just shows what is wrong with the system. Is your mate forces Sox? if not how the hell did he manage to buy even one of those quarters, never mind two. When soldiers are camping outside surplus estates in order to get a bid in.............it stinks.

Finally Pauls 01's point about the internet. I cannot believe in this day and age, his son has to pay £5 to use the internet on Operations. How did all of this go so badly wrong. The really sad thing is that now after over 5 yrs of continual combat operations, the teeth arms are probably the most experienced troops in the world, a position once held by the Isreali's. However welfare seems to have been ditched along the way, and I'm afraid that senior officers since the mid 90's have allowed it to progress unabated, and when challenging the MOD, they have not done it with vigour. Monty will be turning in his grave.

Have we reached the peak of this sorry period yet, or is there more grief for our troops.

Rant Off:mad:

We were briefed last month that MPGS soldiers could be used in the near future to boost troops on operations. In what role is not clear at the moment but it is more then likely to be camp security. Troops that are not medicaly fit for operations would likely replace us for the period we are on operations.

As a lot of MPGS are fit for ops, this seems like a good idea and in general has been met with enthusiasim by most that i have talked to. But does it solve the problem? in the short term yes, but a lot more thinking needs to go into the deployment of our troops.

This is very much in the early days, and as far as I know nothing has been set in stone, like when, where, who or will there be an age limit, as a lot of MPGS are over the age of 40. I wait with intrest!

Mike Carey

I'm so glad my son decided in a career change paul mate, I can only imagine what you and your wife must be like at this present time in your sons career. wish him all the best and a safe journey home.