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Embarrassing, poorly handled by the MOD. Too many civvy spin doctors involved. The 2 sailors do the serving members of the armed forces no credit. Its a disaster for the RN, they have a made themselves a laughing stock in the eyes of much of the public. ............................Toecurling
So glad that the Army was not involved.
Agree with you to a point, on the other hand the offer of 150.000 pounds would be very hard to turn down on their salary.
The rules'll have to be re-thunk, ensuring any military personell with a sensation to sell can't. Isn't it contractual anyway, don't serving individuals have to abide by an official secrets act?
What will happen to these two marines now?
Sharon your absolutely correct about the Offical Secrets Act but unknowing to everyone in the UK whether or not serving or non-serving members of the Armed Forces or Security Services,we are all bound by it. The signing of a piece of paper to say your bound by the act is just wallpaper!
I'm a sceptic (as ever) I think this leaking/selling of the stories of the youngest member and the only female was supported by Government in to get information out into the public arena on how hostages are treated by Middle Eastern regimes. It's all part of the propaganda war being waged by the Blair/Bush Governments.
Hingey
hi al, greetings from Berlin, This story was in the german papers aswell, i agree with u
the RN made a laughing stock of their selves
I must admit I don't think there is much of a story to sell, apart from a womens magazine dealing with the emotional aspect of the female sailor and her child (no offence intended to the ladies on this site), the real story is in the release of an Irian diplomat held by Iraq a day or so after the sailors were released. What deals were done there I wonder?
As for the money aspect of being paid for your story, there is no price on dignity.......rant over.
Best Of Luck To Them All If Certain Over Ranks Can Make Cash From Their Time In The Forces Then Why Not
a few points
1- is there any training given as to how onmust act in a situation like this (other than special forces) if not then who are we to slate or ridicule them if we don't know the psychological pressure applied on them
2- i agree with any other ranks making a buck out of this , as someone else commented the higher ranks do it all the time
3- definitely a p r stunt on behalf of this inept government , blair must have been rubbing his hands with glee as soon as he found out a woman was involved.
when all is said and done they are home safe , if they smiled and lied on tv who cares certainley not their families who have them back , i for on could'nt give a monkees if they make money best of luck to them
They obviously lack Conduct after Capture training. Although the booties would have certainly received it. My comments made no mention of their conduct during their incarcaration, that is for the military to decide, I only highlighted their media appearances since.Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchman
You and others are right about high ranking officers raking it in with their memoirs. Though there is a difference, in that the officers had resigned. De Billiare, Jackson, McNab and others had all left the services when their stories were published. The only recent one I'm aware of that bucks that trend is Beharry VC, and although I'm not too keen on that either, I can understand why he was given dispensation to write his memoir whilst serving.
In a week where 4 members of the services died in Iraq, its all seems a little obscene. Its clearly been a massive PR disaster for the RN, otherwise the MOD wouldn't have done a very public U turn.
I agree with most of the comments so far, I do not wish to upset anyone but I have to say placing a female in the position to be captured gives any potential enemy a distinct propaganda advantage, in particular in Muslim countries.
I do think that our servicewomen do a very valuable job, however I do not agree with young mothers with children in the services's, and I certainly do not agree with serving personnel selling their story's, after all those who have died dont get that oppurtunity, sorry but that is my view.
Regards,
Joe.
I agree with Al that the official secrets act has been shown to be non effective; I had to sign a confidentiality clause with my last unit that I could not publish anythting without their permission and if I didnt sign it I would be discharged hence, that had no clout as well if you took it to the courts as you had to no choice in other but sign it in real terms.
The bottom line is that they were given permission and I don my cap to those officers and gentlemen who gave their wares to the british legion or local cahrity etc however could any of us turn down £150K probably not
Post the 95 tour of Gorazde, the RWF hostages taken by the Serbs were used to rewite the conduct after capture package given to troops deploying. Up until that point there was only POW training given.Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1
The media appearances made by the RWF hostages were stage managed but to my memory nobody gave a personal account and it was all pretty sterile stuff, then it was get back on the horse because there was still a job to do.
Ere Ere, wish I'd been offerd money....JOKE JOKE!!!!!:twitcy:Quote:
Originally Posted by DP43
Hello All, The aspect of this affair that concerns me is the damage that it does to what has been quoted by various people , as 'the covenant' that exists between the British people and the armed forces, now I wonder who'd like to see that damaged? Having said that they are young, were probably lacking in training for the situation they found themselves in, and I'm sure they did their best, and as someone has already said , at the end of it somebody dangled a few years salary in front of them, who am I to judge? It was what must have been a very scary time for all of them.. More port and dry ginger anyone? Regards Alex...
I think that was probably broken after the furore over soldiers housing, inadequate medical care for the wounded and lack of proper livesaving equipment(Body Armour).Quote:
Originally Posted by A T Marshall
I feel very fortunate that all I really had to complain about was barrack damages and DMS boots.
Any bets on the SOS for Defence resigning over the next 3 days? Inspiring bloke
Do you also think the media are more enticing than they used to be? Some tabloids are really getting their teeth into the inadequacies of provisons for service personnel and these situations provide them with golden oppo's to knock the government. I reckon they approached these sailors with a huge cash offer - knowing they'd find it almost impossible to refuse. Consider the way the world is changing and the apparent freedom these papers have, I don't think they'd even have thought of approaching military personnel 10 years ago - and possibly the same personnel would have been more protected and unapproachable?
Very true Sharon. The RN made a poor judgement call in allowing them to sell. I don't really make any comment on the two who decided too go down that route. But its telling that "Young Arthur Batchelor" is now critising the decison to allow him to do it, saying he feels hung out to dry. Even the News of the World former editor Phil Hall, is shocked that they dont appear to have been given any sort of proper advice regarding media issues and the potential backlash from fellow service personnel and the public.
Its also interesting that the Royal Marines involved have declined. Different service culture perhaps, with the regimental support system coming into play and perhaps the CO and RSM of the Commando unit having a "Cosy Fireside Chat" with the guys about the rights and wrongs of playing with the media.
I had to laugh yesterday, one of the online tabloids featuring Fay Tierney (?) announcing that "after her horrific ordeal" she was returning to Iraq and her ship.......Erm??
What we must remember is at the same time as those "hostages" were arriving back in the UK 4 soldiers were killed in Iraq, they didn't get a chance to tell their stories. Shame on this Government for allowing this fiasco to happen in the first place. I believe the Government allowed them to sell their stories to try and deflect from the fact that more soldiers were killed, how much air time or column space did the fact that these soldiers died had compared to the navy & marine personnel returning home..........very little. I'm glad its back fired on them.
15 hostages all members of the navy lost at sea , 14 men 1 woman , no prizes for who was reading the map
cheers all
led
You like living on the edge don't you Led
Here Here Paul
I attended the funeral a couple of weeks ago of the young Staffords lad killed by a sniper. It didn't even make the national press, its a disgrace Blair has got alot to answer for but the way that he and his government treat our troops leaves me lost for words.
As for these R N hostages and the selling of the stories, it is without doubt a PR stunt which looks likely to back fire. I was listening to some General on the radio saying that as these people were on a UN mandate that the other member countries France Holland etc. would be laughing at us. Doesn't he realize that they have been laughing at us with regard UN duties for years, especially in respect of UN pay.
The Blair/Bush Government keeps telling us its a UN Mandate but how many French or German troops do you see in Iraq, no wonder they laugh at us they can sit back and reap all the rewards (lucrative oil contracts etc) without any of the risks or backlash. This is turning into another Vietnam for the USA and I'm afraid Blair is happy for the UK to be dragged down with them. These Navy personnel selling their stories was supposed to be a PR exercise showing how outside influences such as the Iranians is effecting Iraq and that's why no progress has been made, to me, it just opened up a large can of worms which no doubt will be buried in a mountain of spin, the one thing this Government is good at!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5haron
We got released, went on leave then went back to Bosnia Big deal thats what we got paid for!!!
That was my point exactly :wink:
Nice one Led!! Could always rely on your political correctness!! eh!
She was also the Coxswain of one of the boats captured. Or as she stated on Sir Trevor Mcdonald's interview"I'm a boat driver!"
Hingey
Hello , Daily's get their story, says it all, Paul you got it in one, who got the headlines? the Fifteen or the Four? The European press have also had a good day or two!! With regards to way that the British public view the services as I said in an earlier post it didn't help much either!! Regards Alex....
Hello, Just read in this mornings paper that the MOD are to restrict families of wounded or injured forces personnel from 'going public' on the treatment their youngsters are receiving for their injuries in hospital. Sounds like one rule for one etc. Regards Alex
Can this be true!!!
I would like to see how they would enforce that. They would be better advised directing their efforts in improving the medical treatment the troops receive in the UK. The lunatics have definitely taken over the asylum.
Observer 15 April 2007
An internal 'defence instruction' seen by The Observer states that where wounded soldiers 'discuss their own individual cases with visitors, it is the visitor's responsibility to ensure that such discussions remain confidential. Under no circumstances may visitors repeat or discuss any clinical details they obtain during the visit'.
The three-page memo, from the central defence medical headquarters, makes it clear the rules apply both to family and friends and to official visitors, including MPs and military officers.
The directive argues that medical confidentiality makes such restrictions necessary. The memo follows a spate of critical media reports, including a harrowing account in The Observer of a young Iraq war veteran left to lie in his own faeces at the flagship ward for military casualties in Birmingham's Selly Oak hospital.
Just another way of this Government's attempt to cover up any adverse publicity that puts them in a bad light. I'd like to see how they can stop these families from going public without revoking their freedom of speech. Adversely isn't that what the Government tells us the guys in Iraq and Afganistan are fighting for????
After all the comments regarding Hospital treatment and stories to the press etc this Government is slowly destroying our armed services moral, I do not wish to start a political debate but they are in my opinion affecting recruitment in an adverse way.
I never thought I would say this, but I would not reccomend any young person to sign up today in the forces.
Regards,
Joe.
This government has not changed, its always treated the forces badly, we where definitely the 4th class citizens in Bosnia, oh yer another UN mandate, while we awaited with baited breath in the woods of Gorazde all huddled around the radio awaiting a government decision on the possible airstikes a decision was made "The Government have broken for their Easter break back in a week" Thanks a bunch! (This during the Hostage Period)
"Who Cares Spins"
Sorry wanted to have this winge since 1995
Regards Barry "Forgoten Army of Gorazde" and member of the country club!
I agree the government shot it self in the foot so had to cut and run, embracing to be British someday’s aye!
Hello All, Interesting article at www.guardianunlimited.co.uk headed "Browne launches sailors inquiries" the Robert Fox article "What are they hiding' is interesting as is the Comments section that follows it.... Regards Alex
Should another unfortunate incident like this occur, what happens then, will the Individuals/Country involved in the capturing use their captives as propaganda or will they just blow them out of the water or stick them in the nick & throw away the key.
Did the families of the captives gain some comfort from at least seeing their loved ones on show?? or would they have rather sat unknowing for months??
The Iranians gained a lot of Kudos in the eyes of other countries & now the stories have broke I believe they have lost face & honour, so next time, I think individuals will really suffer.
The Press seem to blow everything out of proportion these days & there is no way individuals should have been able to sell their stories so soon (if at all) after the incident & with the conflict still on going it sets a bad president !!
An official statement should have been made covering all the facts of capture, treatment etc. "End Of Story" :skeptical:
I agree with Richie, they should have never been allowed to sell their stories and the Government could have averted all this backlash by putting out an official, detailed statement on how the service personnel were treated and the events leading up to their capture. Unfortunately that's not how this Government works.:skeptical:
It speaks volumes about government policies when you consider that these service personnel were able to be approached so very soon after their release. There is, as far as the layman can see, no protection or buffering for people in these situations, anyone it appears, was able to speak with them or reach them. Consider that it maight have been some lunatic terrorist sympathiser with another agenda entirely. It's frightening that the people the government expect to protect it's citizens (and those of other countries) are treated like nonentities.
I may be wrong, but I'm prety certain that the MOD initially released the details of Faye Turney to the media. You would expect them to try and protect identities. Play with the media, and you will definitely get your fingers burnt........eventually.
Im waiting to see a negative story about Faye appear in the News of The World over the next month. You can rest assured that the journalist who wrote her story, will now be looking for some dirt, in order to fill a few more pages.
Whilst I agree that all the hostages should have been protected and advised about talking to the papers etc, I can see why they have done it. After all if she got £150,00 as they say she did who can blame her? It'd set her family up for a few years, buy a house or whatever. I do hope they dont now dish dirt but I agree I think they will try to find some about her. We havent heard the last of it all I'm sure. She may well come to think 'was it worth it?' I hope for her it was but feel it may not have been. After all money isnt everything but then it does help!
Anita x
Oh, I didn't realise that. We don't always get it right over here :)Quote:
I may be wrong, but I'm prety certain that the MOD initially released the details of Faye Turney to the media
Alan's correct when he says the Press will be looking for another angle on this one their paracites and live of anything they can and make it up if they've not got the story they want.
Anita has a point regarding the selling of their story. But our lads, as did others, did not not get an opportunity to say anything or indeed benefit financially from their hostage taking. However,they're not serving now so perhaps their story is worth telling now? Who knows!
Hingey
Slippery slope !!! I hope no one else will have to suffer in the future because of this "CIRCUS" :realmad: