Acting lance Sergeant 291067 Jones Evan 2/7th RWF

Thought I would share this, a remarkable service history considering not only the span of service a total of 43 years, but also the era of service. Evan first attested in Breton on the 20/07/1877, aged 18 years and 4 months. Served in the Royal Monmouth Engineers, Posted to 2/24th SWB, on the 26/1/78. served in B. Company at the defence of Rorkes Drift. served in S.A., Mediterranean, India and Burma. Transferred Gloucester Regiment on 30/09/1889, then back to 4th Battalion South Wales Boarders on 27/05/96, discharged on 17/10/99. Then attested at Welshpool on 17/03/1900, Royal Northern Reserved Battalion number 1226, discharged 16/03/1903 also served in Montgomery Yeomanry. attested Aberystwyth on 15/04/1915 for 2/7th Royal Welch Fusilier and discharged 15/2/1919. He then attested at Wrexham on 12/8/1919 as a private 99052 in the Northumberland Fusilier being discharged on 10/02/1920. he died in 1931 at the age of 72 years.

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Originally Posted by welchboy

Thought I would share this, a remarkable service history considering not only the span of service a total of 43 years, but also the era of service. Evan first attested in Breton on the 20/07/1877, aged 18 years and 4 months. Served in the Royal Monmouth Engineers, Posted to 2/24th SWB, on the 26/1/78. served in B. Company at the defence of Rorkes Drift. served in S.A., Mediterranean, India and Burma. Transferred Gloucester Regiment on 30/09/1889, then back to 4th Battalion South Wales Boarders on 27/05/96, discharged on 17/10/99. Then attested at Welshpool on 17/03/1900, Royal Northern Reserved Battalion number 1226, discharged 16/03/1903 also served in Montgomery Yeomanry. attested Aberystwyth on 15/04/1915 for 2/7th Royal Welch Fusilier and discharged 15/2/1919. He then attested at Wrexham on 12/8/1919 as a private 99052 in the Northumberland Fusilier being discharged on 10/02/1920. he died in 1931 at the age of 72 years.

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Now that's a service record and beyond Welchboy how did he achieve the Lance Sgt rank I thought that was only in the house hold division or was it different in those days and that rank applied across the army

Lance Serjeant's were all over the army in WWI. Used througout the army until 1946, thenceforth only Household Division.

Lars

Lars, Is correct. The appointment originated in the British Army in the 19th century, given to a corporal so that he could fill a post usually held by a sergeant, the holder of the rank could also be removed by his commanding officer, unlike a full sergeant's which could only be removed by court martial.
As Lars said it was discontinued by 1946 except for the Household Division. In the Foot Guards, in Full Dress the lance sergeant wears 3 rank chevrons the same a sergeant, only his are white whilst the sergeants are gold. Whilst in working dress the lance sergeant wears the cap badge of the other ranks whilst a sergeant wears the NCO variant.
To day in the Foot Guards on promotion to corporal it incorporates the automatic promotion to lance sergeant, though only carrying out the duties of a corporal.

So if a lance sergeant went to an other units mess could he use the sergeants mess even though he is only a corporal

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Originally Posted by jones20

So if a lance sergeant went to an other units mess could he use the sergeants mess even though he is only a corporal

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That is a good question. Perhaps someone on the forum knows the protocol for this. Then I assume he would as a visitor be a guest of the mess and it would be up to the Mess President to afford him entry to the mess as a sergeant of that unit.

Ram griff 70 in Hong Kong sent them to cal mess.

Rsm griff 70 .

1 Welsh Guards were posted to Berlin 1976 where we 1 RRW where also posted. They were invited to the WO's & Sgt's mess by 1 RRW for a games night meet and greet etc. The RSM of 1 RRW John Williams stipulated that the invite did not extend to their Lance Sgt's as in his eyes they were Cpl's most mess members agreed with him. The WG declined the invite saying that they would not attend without their L/Sgt's sadly this led to a lot of bad feeling between two proud Welsh Regiments. On a good note they did not beat us at rugby during the Berlin posting.

As fortunate or unfortunate it may have seemed at the time both RSM's acted correctly in my opinion. :biggrinicon: Cant remember if we had the same issue in Berlin with the Irish Guards however, one of the other members perhaps will remember...

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Originally Posted by jcj

1 Welsh Guards were posted to Berlin 1976 where we 1 RRW where also posted. They were invited to the WO's & Sgt's mess by 1 RRW for a games night meet and greet etc. The RSM of 1 RRW John Williams stipulated that the invite did not extend to their Lance Sgt's as in his eyes they were Cpl's most mess members agreed with him. The WG declined the invite saying that they would not attend without their L/Sgt's sadly this led to a lot of bad feeling between two proud Welsh Regiments. On a good note they did not beat us at rugby during the Berlin posting.

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I thought I'd seen a picture of him, and I had...one version here, though there's a full-length one out there as well.

http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/defenders/e_jones.htm

Interestingly, they say his real name was "Patrick Cosgrove", and he was buried at Welshpool. His medals are at the National Museum in Cardiff. Another set of details here, but the photos don't show:

http://royalwelsh.org.uk/remember/e_jones.htm

Clive