Printable View
I have copies of my grandfather's service records and am interested in his earlier service from February 1896 to January 1904. Initially he was with the 2nd Battalion RWF, possible Regiment No 6969, and was involved with the campaign 'Occupation of Crete 1896 - 1897' and also received the medal for 'China 1900'.
It is these two campaigns that I am attempting to 'look into'. Is anybody able to assist me with this family project, or steer me in the correct direction to carry out my own research.
Hi GeoffQuote:
Originally Posted by GeoffEllis058
Coincidentally I am just doing some in depth research in this area right now. That number is too high for the China war medal, can you share the name?
2/RWF were heavily engaged in China, Crete was less involved for the Battalion - but they had to go twice, either side of a trip to Egypt.
Some background here for Crete :
http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/balk...e18971908.html
Richard
There is a bit on the RWF's involvement in China and the Boxer's in this book.
http://www.rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin...-to-Armageddon
The Road to Armageddon – the Life and Letters of Lt-Col Henry Cadogan, RWF, 1868–1914
The Road to Armageddon follows the career of one man, Henry Cadogan, the personification of an infantry officer of the late-nineteenth century. Commissioned in 1888, he was trained for the imperial wars of the closing years of Queen Victoria’s reign and saw active service on the North-West Frontier and in China. The son of a clergyman, he hailed from a large family with whom he regularly corresponded over the many years that he served abroad. These letters form the basis of his history, illustrating the everyday life of a young officer stationed far from home defending an empire of which he, and every other soldier and sailor, was immensely proud. As he rose to eventually command the 1st Battalion, The Royal Welsh Fusiliers during the peaceful Edwardian years, he played a part in numerous ceremonial and social events which marked that period when the army underwent wholesale changes to prepare it for conflict in the twentieth century.
When Europe was plunged into war in August 1914, Hal Cadogan brought his battalion back from garrison duties on Malta and endeavoured to prepare it for the conflict. After a very short period of training,his battalion was posted to Belgium as part of 7 Division, the last division of the ‘Old Contemptibles’ to go overseas. Although the British Expeditionary Force was regarded as the best-trained force to ever sail from Britain, it was ill-prepared for what awaited it on the continent. Fighting the last of the Victorian-style campaigns of movement, it acquitted itself with great distinction against an enemy whose sheer weight of numbers seemed to guarantee him victory. The BEF halted the German Army long enough to deny it victory in 1914, but for Hal Cadogan and the men under his command the price paid was high indeed, as the battalion was effectively wiped out. But they, and others like them, prevented the British and French allies losing the war in the opening rounds and thereby laid the first paving on what was to be a long road to eventual victory.Fully illustrated, maps, nominal roll 1RWF (October 1914), index.
Welcome to our Forum, Geoff.
The time of 2 RWF in China was described by Frank Richards in his book Old Soldier Sahib. It is still in print.
Col Nick Lock's article on the Boxer Rebellion is in the Vault. A donation will get you in there.
John
Thanks RichardQuote:
Originally Posted by Richard Ward
My grandfathers name was Joseph Edwards, born in Wrexham on 8th July 1879, and enlisted in the 2nd Battalion on 28th February 1896 & transferred to the Reserve on 26th January 1904. He attested in to the Territorial Force (4th Battalion RWF) on the 26th March 1912. From the various 'paperwork' I have there appear to be 3 regimental numbers - 4932; 6969; 200286. He was eventualy discharged on 29th August 1917.
Attachment 3479Attachment 3480
All assistance is appreciated
Regards
Geoff
Thanks John, as you will guess, I am a novice at 'forums'. Firstly, does the 'Old Soldier Sahib' have an ISBN number; and secondly, what would be an acceptable 'donation'?
Regards
Geoff
I think you will find that his number with the 2nd RWF was 4932. That sounds about right for an 1896 enlistment.
ATB,
Lars
From what I remember Old soldier Sahib only has a short chapter on the boxer rebellion and is anecdotal with the author recounting tales told by others.
Geoff
You have actually helped me more than I can help you in this case! 4932 Edwards was one of the men who had been causing me a headache. The later numbers you posted have allowed me to pick him up and pull the papers. **Edit - I am assuming you have these from findmypast if not let me know and I will email them over to you**
This should help paint a picture for you.
http://www.royalwelsh.org.uk/downloa...ellion1900.pdf
Richard
Hello Geoff Ellis,
The reprint of O S S has an I S B N number it is 0-9547252-1-2, there are several different publishers of this story. The first was printed by Faber & |Faber in September (MCMXXXIII Or in layman's terms 1933. The 2nd 3rd were also printed in 1933, the 4th impression was printed in May MCMXXXIV1934. O S S was the second book Frank wrote.Other I S B N numbers are No 10 0907746276. I have also seen an advert for O S N D and it is listed as having two authors ie Robert Graves & Frank Richards. This error probably stems from a bit if Welsh mythology in which some members of the public believed that Robert did have a some what large input which is not true.The truth is that Frank sent his M S to Deya for R Graves to give his opinion and to help getting it published because Robert was an established author and well in with Faber and Faber.But Robert was of the opinion that Frank's output was written in a typical infantry man's language and style, so much so that Robert did very little to the original M S.To summarise Frank gave Robert 30% of his royalties on both books as a mark of Frank's appreciation for all the help Robert gave to Frank. There are a positive multitude of Publisher's of Franks work. In conclusion I can highly recommend both books to all and sundry.
Regards R B D aka jungle1810
Morning Richard
Thanks for the 'link', I have now downloaded the file and will be adding it to my family tree. I believe I have most of the info from findmypast, however I would appreciate if you could email your copies for correlation.
I am glad I was able to help you at the same time, and have confirmed the Reg No with the medal roll for China 1900 from ancestry.
Regards
Geoff
Thanks for the ISBN's, I will now carry out a search on amazon and see what happens.
Regards
Geoff
Geoff
I found 26 pages. Does that tie in with you. They are a bit large to email at 1MB per page (26MB)
I will make sure he is the next man to be written up and send over his entry. However, this might be a couple of weeks as I am on holiday from today. Wife has banned technology ....
Do you by chance have a photograph of him? Nick Lock and I are on the hunt for as many China vets as we can find.
Richard
Thanks again, have a nice holiday. I will attach the only photo I have of him. The only paperwork I have downloaded equates to about 7 or 8 pages.
Attachment 3482
This is a pdf as the 'forum' states the jpg is too large.
Geoff
Evening Richard, did you receive the photo I sent of my grandfather? Is there any update on the ifo you said you had?
Hi Geoff
Apologies - I have not had much forum time since coming back from holiday as things have got very hectic at work. I was a fool to think taking two weeks off we be ok ....
I will take another look for you tonight - to be honest with you it has slipped my mind.
I will take a look through my emails to see if the photos made it to me - unfortunately I had to archive a large number of emails (Had over 2000 in the two weeks I was off ) :madicon: in order to be able to send emails on my return to the office.
Richard
Thanks for the mail, I do understand, but you must forgive a 'retired wrinkly' being over anxious!
Regards
Geoff
Hi Richard, any update available?
Hi Geoff
Apologies - I now have a way of getting the files to you easily. If you let me have your email address I will send you a link to download a zip file that contains all the documents I found.
Regards
Richard
Hi Geoff
Files zipped up and waiting for you.
Richard
Sorry for not getting back to you earlier as I have been very busy taking the wife for examinations and consultant visits, so 'relaxing time' has been limited.
Thanks for the 'message', how do I retrieve the 'zipped files'?
If it is any help, my email address is:- gellis058@aol.com
Did you receive the 'file' of my grandfather in uniform?
Regards
Geoff Ellis
Hi.
Sorry to join the discussion so late but I'm relatively new to the forum.
I can give you some detail on 2/RWF in Crete.
In March 1897 following an insurrection on Crete by Cretan Christian demanding union with Greece and the landing of 1500 Greek troops on the island, the Concert of Europe decided to intervene to prevent inter-communal bloodshed and, more importantly for the geopolitics of the age, the annexation of Crete by Greece which would have a serious knock-on effect on the stability of the Ottoman Empire. The RN and Marines went in first followed in March 1897 by 1/Seaforths and then 2/RWF.
HQ. and 4 Coys 2/RWF arrived on Crete on 8 April 1898, the remainder joining them in August that year. They were stationed in Candia (now Iraklion) the centre of the British secteur of the island; the other three secteurs being controlled by the Italian, French and Russians. 2/RWF left Crete in August 1898 only to return in September following a riot in Candia which resulted in the deaths of an estimated 400 Cretan Christians and, crucial to the British response, 14 members of 1/HLI. They left the island again, for the final time, in December 1898. During the time there they appear, according to the memorial in Iraklion, to have lost at least 9 of their number; all through illness.
There are some original photographs of RWF in Crete here: http://gmic.co.uk/forums/topic/47497...comment-438050
If you want further background to the early part of the British intervention in Crete, it went on until 1909 for the army and 1913 for the navy, drop me a PM and I'll send you my dissertation!
Mick McT
Great response Mick, many thanks.
Al
Mick,
Fantastic pictures, over a Hundred years ago and as clear as my 16 MP camera can take, thanks
Brian