What will become of the Fusilier?

I am quite disturbed in hearing that the 1st Bn Royal Welsh are moving to re-role at Tidworth. (what has to be - has to be)

Was, it not annouced by the Sec of State for Defence that the 2nd Bn Royal Welsh will disband and that the 1st Bn will continue ( I know it has been decided that the 2nd Bn will go in name only and that it will be re-titled the 1st Bn Royal Welsh).

A couple of questions I ask the "Powers to Be" is, will the RWF and the RRW name go completely and what will the soldiers be called in the new 1st Bn (Fusiliers or Privates).

If the RWF and the RRW name will not appear in any form in the title of this new Bn am I right in saying that these 2 fine old Regiments' History ( over 600 years in total) will be swept into the "Hall of Fame"

I know the Hackle/Plume and Flash is going to continue (I hope) and the 3 feathers cap badge and the green baising etc. but another question I ask myself - for how long? before the whole of the Infantry become a Corps and all wear the same cap badge and lose their Regimental names and just become like the "Yanks", numbered Bns.

My apologiies to anyone who think that I've got my facts wrong, but I'm sorry, with what has happened in the past, since 2006, I am pesimystic than optimystic. (try do a spell check, but failed).

it will be a sorry day if we loose the fusilier it has been there for so long i can not think of it not being included in the reg name 15

Benny

From the information I have the "new" Battalion will be made up of the following Companies

A COY - Prince of Wales Company

B COY - Rorakes Drift Company

D COY - Royal Welch Fusiliers Company

Not only that but those in D Company will be called Fusiliers while the others will be called Privates.

Obviously this is all subject to confirmation

Paul if what you say is correct IMHO I think that one Coy being called Fusiliers and the remaining Coys being called Pte’s is absurd and confusing. Imagine the scenario when a VIP visits the Regiment one minute he/she is being introduced to Fusilier Evans and in the next breath they are introduced to Pte Jones. Either all Fusiliers or all Pte’s.

I agree Colin, to me the titling of 70 odd men is a meaningless exercise. Obviously as an ex Royal Welchman, I would like to see all the guys titled "Fusilier", for me that would be a proper link to its historic past. Although I can understand why there would be opposition to that from the 2nd Bn/RRW side.

IMHO it makes little difference what they call the soldiers or the new title 1st 2nd Royal Welch etc.At the end of the day both former Regiments have been shafted but not so much by HMG but by the Army board. They bear little resemblance of what we were with the ad hoc mix of Cap Badge collar dogs Battle honours etc. The top brass did not make the cuts fairly or logically. All three Para Bn’s retained, when did they last do an operational drop? The Rifles all five Regular and two TA Battalions were left untouched; it pays to have friends in high places. As for the Foot Guards and the Jocks at the risk of repeating myself, in my ten years in recruiting they always struggled to recruit and their retention rate was appalling. That said I wish all ranks of whatever the Royal Welsh end up as the very best. At least I can look back on 44 years of service with great memories marvelous friends and comrades, from both RRW and RWF.

First we should ask what a Fusilier is. When I joined I was given a piece of paper written by RSM Lewis explaining all (see below). Apart from the last paragraph I'm not sure it applies now, especially bit about the Government supports them, but maybe applies to a number of Forum members! Anyone recognize it?

Between the security of childhood and the insecurity ofsecond childhood we find a fascinating group of Welsh humanity called Fusiliers.They come in assorted shapes and sizes, in trucks, in dirty denims, in love, inpolice vans, in public and always in debt. Girls love them, the towns toleratethem and the Government supports them.

A Fusilier is laziness with a pack of cards, bravery with atattered Hank Jansen and the protector of the earth on a dozen pints. He hasthe energy of a tortoise, the slyness of a fox, the brain of an idiot, thestories of a Sea Captain, the sincerity of a born liar and the inspiration of aCasanova. Some of his interests are girls, females, women, she’s, dames, birdsand the opposite sex. His dislikes are answering letters, wearing uniform,brasso, muster parades, drawers pyjama type, guards, reveille and ProvostSergeants.

No one else could cram into one pocket a dirty handkerchief,a packet of crushed cigarettes, two used matches, a picture of his girl, acomb, a bottle opener, a piece of 4 x 2, an empty .22 case, an old pass, athing and what’s left of last weeks pay. He likes spending his money on beer,girls, beer, cards, beer, char and wads, beer and what’s left foolishly.

His worldly achievements have been to fight the ‘BlackJocks’ to a standstill in Minden, found a woman in the middle of the Libyandesert, sold Imber Village to a visiting American General, pawned the goat,made 80 Evans cry, Bill Street swear and brought chastity belts into style inHoniton.

A Fusilier is a magical creature, you can lock him out ofyour homes but not your heart, you can scratch his name off the nominal rollbut not out of your mind, he is your one and only, bleary eyed, foul-mouthed,good for nothing FRIEND.

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Originally Posted by wally15

it will be a sorry day if we loose the fusilier it has been there for so long i can not think of it not being included in the reg name 15

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Your right Wally, this is why it's important that we keep our Royal Welch Fusiliers Comrades Association's, in name, tradition and values, otherwise we shall go under with the rest.

I agree with you Wally. Also while we are on the subject why should the 1st Bn. be dictated to by what was the Welch Regt. If it is to be given a title it should be : 1st Bn. The Royal Welch Fusiliers. Also bring back the old cap badge!

One Coy called Fusiliers ?? oh yeh what happens on inter Coy postings & the paperwork etc :arghh:

I agree its absurd that just one Company in the Battalion will be called Fusiliers while the others are called Privates, I agree with jcj said its either all Fusiliers or all Privates. This Government and the MOD have shafted the Welsh yet again, in spite of recruitment in Wales being prepositionally higher than the rest of the UK they decided that its a Welsh Infantry Battalion that has to go. The Jocks stayed because the independence vote is coming up and the Government is running scared. In my view I don't think it will be that long before the "new" Battalion become 1st Battalion, 5th Regt, 2nd Armoured Brigade or something like that so we can match the Americans, this Government has no sense of tradition.

It should be FUSILIER enough of turning every thing Green, The Colours, Mess Dress, Green Backing to Beret/Cap, Rank/Qualification badges etc the way things are going it will only be the Flash and Hackle left of our identity

How long will the flash and Hackle last, remember they got rid of the blue beret to make everyone look more uniformed, what's to say some pen pusher in the MOD will come up with a brainwave to make the boys further uniformed. As I said its going more the way of the Americans at the cost of Tradition, history etc.

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Originally Posted by Paul Davies 701

How long will the flash and Hackle last, remember they got rid of the blue beret to make everyone look more uniformed, what's to say some pen pusher in the MOD will come up with a brainwave to make the boys further uniformed. As I said its going more the way of the Americans at the cost of Tradition, history etc.

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Right there Paul, and someone from our HQ in Wrexham, or is it Cardiff? will be sending us RWF Comrades new letterheads and re-naming Royal Welch Fusiliers Comrades association Medals yet again, and where will the RWF funds end up, Yorkshire, Willtshire?.

I do hope I can put this one to bed. A decision has been made and to answer the question an awful lot will become of the Fusilier. My understanding from a meeting held last Friday is that:

All privates will be appointed as and called Fusiliers
RWF company signs will be retained e.g. Rising Sun for A coy etc
The 1st Battalion goat will be called Billy and wear the RWF Lichfield breast plate
The Bn 2i/c will be called Senior Major
1st Bn regimental pioneers and corps of drums will wear busbies
RWF tradition of not standing for Loyal Toast will continue


All this In addition of course to the Flash and white hackle.


This has yet to be confirmed on paper but we have no reason to complain so let's all get together, support the new Battalion, and welcome its former members into our RWFCA branches.

Excellent news Col Bob
Let us hope that the new Bn will thrive forward and foster closer ties with both the RWFCA and the RWRA?

That is very good news Bob

Good news indeed but in celebration, spare a thought for the lads with the RRW and further the 24th and 41st connection. Our gain is their loss and for me, it is still very sad that it has come to this.

Ah, There is a God, that is very good news thank you Bob, I have friends who are ex RRW whom I do feel for, but home is where the heart is!

Very good news Bob.

That is great News Bob.

sounds good to me thank you:notworthy::biggrinicon:

Thanks bob for imfor like every thing we all jump about shouting its not right this and that ect ect but what members must remember is the rwf comrades are staying just suport them like me iam rwfca now and for ever more keith may

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Originally Posted by Gwyn Nicholas

Good news indeed but in celebration, spare a thought for the lads with the RRW and further the 24th and 41st connection. Our gain is their loss and for me, it is still very sad that it has come to this.

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I think you are spot on with your comments Gwyn. I for one am bitterly disappointed with the outcome as I feel there is no tangible link with the RRW in the new 1st Battalion setup. Believe me when I say I have no ill feeling towards the RWF as I have too many RWF friends from my time in the Welsh Brigade Depot, the RMAS and the TA to feel that way. No my bitterness and anger is directed towards the higher echelons of the Army Board and also the senior Officers and RHQ of the RRW. HMG and the Army Board sold us out in favour of the Jocks and Rifles, but what angers me most is I believe the senior Officers from the RRW knowing what the danger was did virtually nothing to try and save the 2nd Battalion (The Royal Regiment Of Wales).Forgive me for repeating myself but hats off to the QDG for what they achieved. Ironically I spent longer in the Army than the RRW were in existence; I would prefer to have seen the RRW taken out of the order of battle and march proudly into history than to see this mishmash. All that said I wish all members of the 1st Battalion present and future the very best.

Colin, your comments regarding the 24th/41st and 2 RW are very valid. I was on Facebook earlier and noticed that 7 SCOTS have been training with American and Canadian soldiers. What gets me upset is that the Scots have 7 Bn's and they are only losing part of a Bn when they leave Canterbury and move to Edinburgh, which means that they will remain 7 Bn's. I am also suprised that RHQ of RRW/RW, did not have a say in what was forecast as the QDG did and also that members who made decisions on the future were from the Rifles.

Colin, I have served with many 24th, 41st and RRW men, and I found that they were as good as RWF men, and I can remember in Jul 69 when two major things happened, Investiture of the Prince of Wales and the amalgamation of the 24 and the 41st. I was fortunate that I did not go to Hong Kong, as I would have been very upset as the Bn were killing off a fellow Fusilier regiment.

I believe that in the future, the regiments P of W Div will merge into one regiment.

I served along side many a RRW soldier in my time especially when I was a Pl Sgt down at IJLB Shorncliffe, all were very professional & had the work ethic & always pushed the better than the English line. (Fond memories of Bobby Crookes, the lads loved him & none will ever forget his bayonet lessons). It is a sad state of affairs. There is no one in politics who knows the meaning of the words Honour & Loyalty. I'm also so surprised that the Top Brass who served their careers in the Regimental system seem so happy to send the whole ethos of what makes The British Army great down the swanny, must be living to close to the snake pit.