2 RWF India/ Burma 1943-45

I am hoping that someone may be able to share some light here.
My dad Fusilier William Chesterton 5121173 died in 2004. He served with the The Royal Welch from Oct 1943 - Feb 1946, attached to the 2/RWF.

He was sent to India then into Burma. I have his pay book; brief record of service and Medals. I am waiting for his Army records from Glasgow but it is going to take about 9 months.

I know very little about what he did as he never spoke about his time in the War. All I know is that it must have been horrendious, and he suffered from bouts of Malaria all his life. He could have been in charge of a Bren Gun platoon.

He was a Birmingham man and originally signed up with the Royal Warwicks in July 1940.
He was a very stubborn man; a union man who spoke his mind. Consequently he was demoted from Corporal on a couple of occasions for speaking out and finally he was transferred to the RWF when I believe he was in India as he refused to be parachuted?

I have pictures of him in Shillong and Deolali possibly recouperating at the time. Was in the Arakan and Burma campaigns with the 2nd?
Thanks
Barbara

Hi Barbara and welcome,

The 2nd Battalion was part of 29th Infantry Brigade Group, an independent brigade it departed the UK in March 1942. It initially sailed to Madagascar and took part in the sea invasion of the island, capturing it from the Vichy French. They then sailed onwards, eventually arriving in India in January 1943. On arrival in India the Brigade came under command of 36th Indian Division. The Division deployed into the Arakan in Feb 1944. In June 1944 it was withdrawn for rest and refit at Shillong. In August 1944, it was re-deployed to Northern Burma in the area of Ledo. The men came under the command of the American General "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell. They then commenced the 170 mile advance along Railway Corridor eventually crossing the huge Irrawddy River in Dec 1944. Some quotes:

"The Japanese resisted very stubbornly down the whole of the 170-mile corridor, in which many stern battles were fought in torrential, rain and deep mud. Hill 60, Pinbaw, Pinwe and Gyobin Chaung are names that will live in the memories of the men of 36 Div".

From memory of previous posts on here, Pinbaw is certainly a location the 2nd Bn attacked. We did have some detail on one of the RWF Company Commanders; Major Simmons MC who was commanding A Company, he was injured at that location. (Look back at your Dad's war records to see if Simmons is mentioned or has signed documents?) Please visit the link below to get an overall picture of that Divisional advance that lasted 10 months, ending in the Federated Shan States in May 1945.

http://www.burmastar.org.uk/seac36div.htm

"The 36th Division has completed over ten months of continuous contact with the ‘Japanese. Men have fought and marched the whole way through jungle, swimming chaungs, sweating over mountain tracks and across the desert scrub of the plains. The infantryman has marched over a 1000 miles in ten months."

if you search back though the Forum, using "Burma" you will find quite a bit of information about individual members of the battalion. We did have the 2 RWF War Diary for that period, but its seems to have gone AWOL from The Forum.

Finally: Please try and obtain a copy of The Red Dragon, (link below). Its out of print(1960), but covers the war story of all the RWF Bn's in WW2. The 2nd Battalions war is covered in detail and includes maps. A great addition to your families rememberence of your Fathers war.

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-searc...kemp/sortby/3/

Good luck with your research. Keep us posted.

Al

Thank you so much Al for the above - it really means a lot to me. I shall certainly further my research as you suggested
Barbara

2nd Bn RWF Burma April 7 1944. Cpl Briggs MM:

Whilst the 1st battalion were making their way to Kohima, the 2nd Battalion were fighting the Japanese in Burma. Today the 7th April 1944, they were involved in clearing the railway tunnels and high ground on Maungdaw-Buthidaung road. Cpl Briggs was part of a patrol to the east of Eastern Tunnel, when it came under effective enemy fire. His own tommy gun was destroyed by the fire and another patrol member Cpl Patrick was seriously wounded.

Separated from the patrol, Cpl Thomas Briggs was awarded an immediate MM for his lone 20 minute extraction of his wounded comrade Cpl Patrick under constant enemy fire. The enemy realising the two Welchmen were alone had tried to cut their escape. The patrol eventually recovered them.

See citation.

Attachment 3309Attachment 3310

2nd Bn RWF Selkirk Cpl T. Briggs 1941

Corporal Briggs is photographed playing rugby in Selkirk in the winter of 1941/42, he is in the back row third in from the left.

Roy

Al,
I have recently joined the forum in tracking down my father's military service (which in keeping with these messages, he chose not to talk about) in the 29th Independent infantry brigade, group signals, India Command. His name was Leonard William Hammond and he lived in Nottingham.

Your reply to Barbara in 2012 rings a number of bells for me, so I am taking the liberty of contacting you to see if you can add any other pointers.

What he told me:
He was in the Royal Corps of Signals, trained at Catterick and went to Scotland before embarkation. Service number 2358247
He fought in Burma
He was taken very ill and suffered lengthy tapeworms, which had to be starved out of him.
He saw action against the Japanese and had high regard for the Gurkhas.
He made a life long friend in Lesley Morgan, who may have served with him. (I saw a picture of the two of them in shorts and jungle hats outside tents in a jungle clearing.)

What I have pieced together:
From a somewhat musty old cloth bag (for personal effects?) he had collected various currencies, which he gave to me as a lad. In this bag I found a 10 franc note of Madagascan currency, which my research tells me was valid at the time of the Madagascan war in 1942.
As a small boy I also remember my father, mother and I meeting some South Africans off a train in the mid 1950's - perhaps someone he met during the 42-43 period.
It seems clear the brigade then went on to India in 1943 and a year later to the Arakan in Feb 1943 where they became part of the 36th Infantry Div.
I am not sure where he would have met up with the RWF (2nd Battalion?) but it seems highly likely given what I have read.
He also mentioned being in recuperation in Pune, India and I have a letter, sent by my paternal grandfather to my father's brother (who was in the Navy) describing how ill and in "poor spirits" my father was in hospital at 124 IBGH (BT) AB PO17, India Command.
I have recently been told by my cousin (son of my uncle from the Navy) that he was told by his father that my Dad was in a POW camp (I had not heard this until recently and was somewhat taken aback). I have contacted the ICRC office in Geneva to enquire about records they have on POW's from WW2 but they are closed whilst they reformulate their policy on supplying information to comply with FOI and other requests.

That's about it. If you have any information to help get to the bottom of this, I would be very pleased to hear from you.

Best wishes
Roger Hammond

Hi Roger, a warm welcome.

2RWF was a vital component of 29 Ind Brigade, from the moment they sailed down the Clyde in 1942 until May 1945. A very tough, well-trained group of men, Initially commanded by Brig Festing, then from Sept 1944, by a Royal Welchman called Brig Hughie Stockwell. Read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/29th_I...nited_Kingdom)

In terms of your fathers role, whilst each Battalion HQ had its group of signallers who maintained communication with the Brigade HQ, so that Brigade had signallers(like your father) who were kept busy maintaining communication to their Division or whichever Army HQ they were reporting to. For 29 Brigade, this would have been a tough gig, carrying equipment, using mules, and for the signallers with the Brigade Comd, right up on the front-line. Motorised transport would have been a luxury in this type of war.

I'd be a little sceptical about the POW tale. This was a tough brigade, who learnt their skills against the French in the jungles of Madagascar, by the time they were fighting in Burma, they were more than a match for their enemy, with no quarter given. Certainly 2RWF is reported not to have taken any prisoners, that's how it was, effectively applying the same rules as the enemy. As an example not one of the men from 1RWF reported "missing" at the battles of Donbaik 1943 and Kohima 1944 ended up in a POW Camp, they were never seen again, and there were lots of them. To my knowledge not one man from either RWF battalions captured by the enemy, ever made it to a POW camp. Which must indicate a trend.

Four pointers to assist you.

1. You should apply for your fathers service record asap, from the MOD. Cost £35. More info here: https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military...cords/overview

2. I would get a copy of Red Dragon, as discussed in this thread, it follows 29 Brigades movements throughout.

3. You might wish to get a copy of "The Life and Times of Hughie Stockwell" You can purchase it online at the RWF Museum. It's useful as well as later commanding the brigade, Stockwell was previously CO of 2RWF and commanded his battalion at Madagascar, then the Arakan, before eventually taking over the brigade, so lots of detail about the workings of the brigade and units within: http://www.rwfmuseum.org.uk/pu.html

4. One of our members "Drew" can probably obtain a copy of the Brigade War Diary, his charges are very reasonable, but well worth it for you, as the daily routine would have involved your Father, although he is unlikely to be mentioned by name, unless they have some nominal rolls contained within.

Hope this is of some use. Please keep us updated, we don't normally get brigade level queries, so we will be interested to see what you uncover.

Good Luck

Al

Many thanks Al,

I appreciate the prompt reply and information. I will follow up on the leads with interest.

Best wishes
Roger

Hi Roger

Just give me a shout via a Private Message if you need a hand with any war diaries. I also donate a copy of any diaries ordered via this forum to the Admin to help further research into the regiment.

Cheers
Andy

Al

Just to let you know that further to our exchange on 7th Feb, I now have my father's records that indicate that he was attached to the RWF in April 1942, as a signalman. It would also appear that he was part of the commando force that took Diego Suarez from the Vichy French on Madagascar.

I'm in touch with Drew who has offered some help with translation of the records!

I am relieved to say that as you predicted, there does not seem to be any mention of him being a POW as suggested by my relative. He had several episodes in hospital and as I discovered recently, this does not seem to have been unusual for those who served in Madagascar (http://www.combinedops.com/MADAGASCAR.htm)

Many thanks for your help.

Roger

Cheers for the update Roger.

We have a guy in my Comrades Branch, who fought at Madagascar with 2RWF as a Fusilier. He actually accompanied Stockwell and Brig Festing, armed with a bren gun, into the governors mansion and witnessed the surrender. Did your father fight with 2RWF in 1944 as they cleared Railway Corridor, including the assault at Pinbawe?

War Diaries.
Hello Drew, I have just picked up this post and response from Al. I am the Barbara- who started this link back in 2012. Since that time I have received my father's service record, and obtained a copy of The Red dragon. My Dad was William Chesterton no 5121173; Fus; RWF. I have found some parts of his service record difficult to transcribe and annoyingly somewhat very brief in information. I know he served in the 2nd RWF and served in Arakan for 6 month; Assam for 6 months; Burma for 6 months and finally India. He was originally attached to the 8th Reg Royal Warwickshire ( 1940-1943)and embarked for India in 1943. He was also a very outspoken trade unionist and believed in fair play and was demoted twice( did not have much trust in officers) and then finally transferred out to the RWF. He was not in Madagascar. While he would not speak of his time in Burma like so many, I am wondering if these 'War Diaries' would shed any further light on his experiences. Family history would say he was in charge of a Bren/ Machine Gun platoon. Thanks Barbara

Hi Barbara,

Maybe upload some of the difficult parts to one of the many online photo sites, then place the links into the thread on here. We can certainly have a look and see if we can glean anything. What rank was your father?

Wonderful to hear that we still have old soldiers still alive who served in in the 2nd RWF in the war.

Could you ask your old comrade which company he was in and in particular who took over as commander of D Company after Captain Harrison was killed in the bayonet charge in Madagascar on the 5th May 1942.

Roy

Capt Harrison was replaced by his 2nd in command, Capt HJE Jones.