Researching 2 Lt H.H.T. Rees 16 Btn RWF

Hello all,
I am researching my great uncle Henry Hugh Tregarthen Rees 16 Btn RWF, KIA 10 July 1916 Mametz Wood.
I have been well and truly bitten by the research bug following my daughters school visit to Ypres and the battlefields of the Somme in November last year, she had to research a family member who served, as a project for the trip, and found him at Thiepval, pier 4 face A, via the CWGC web site.
I made a visit to the battlefields in March this year and found some information about HHT in the Thiepval visitor centre on the computer system there.
There are excerpts of letters to his mother from his Major, a Captain in his unit, a Sergeant and the Btn Chaplain. I was wondering where that information came from, could those letters exist in RWF archives?
I have downloaded his records from the National Archive WO 339 which shows he joined at Carnarvon 5th December 1914 as 18673 Private HHT Rees, within a month he was Lcpl and two days later Cpl and nominated 2Lt on the same day, is this time frame normal or a product of the casualties taken at that time?
I also have the Btn war diary appendix for 10/11 July which mentions him being killed whilst leading the bombers in strip trench.

The information on the computer screens at Thiepval says "he fell, shot at close quarters, and died whilst being carried to the advanced dressing station", is it possible to locate this dressing station on a map of the area?

I realise that I am so very fortunate in having this much information available to me already but as I said the bug has bitten and I would like to gather as much as possible with a view to visiting the area next year as sadly this years visit we drove past Mametz Wood and Flat Iron Copse on the way to Thiepval before I found where he had fallen.

Any comments or information gratefully received,

Kind Regards

Mike Rees

Welcome to the Forum, Mike.

First of all, this is what I have:

Rees H.H.T. 2/Lt
Henry Hugh Tregarthen Rees, son of John and Ada Josephine Rees, of Glan Menai, Caernarfon, was commissioned Temp 2/Lt (8/1/15) to the 16th Bn, and embarked for France in Dec 1915. He was killed at Mametz Wood 11 Jul 1916 age 24. Commemorated Thiepval Memorial, France.

His promotion was unusually fast, but can be explained by the fact that the number of volunteers was so huge that no NCOs or Officers could be provided from the usual sources. This meant that anyone with more than six years of basic schooling stood a very good chance of promotion.

The letters may well be at the Museum. Best to ask Brian Owen, the Curator. His e-mail address is rwfusiliers@callnetuk.com and you'll always get a reply. But bear in mind that he gets about thirty requests for information each week, so it may take a week or so. Alternatively you can also ask the people at the Thiepval visitors centre. I'm sure they would be delighted to hear from a relative.

The location of the Aid Post will be hard to pinpoint. I do not know of any suitable source of information. Again, the Thiepval people might know more. Aid Posts were set up wherever a suitable loation could be found, and I don't think that anyone would have bothered making notes. Perhaps the War Graves Commisison have something in their files. The graves around Aid Posts were cleared and relocated after the war, so if there were any found the CWGC will have a record of the spot. If they can give you the divisional Aid Posts, you can work out the most likely one with the aid of the War Diary, the Official History and a trench map (which I can supply as a scan, if necessary).

Hope this helps.

John

Thanks for the response John.

I think I have most of the information available online so the link to the museum is my next avenue, thanks for that.
Also the visitors centre at Thiepval, unfortunately my visit was limited due to the tour itinerary so a return is planned for next year. It was quite a moment to discover the content of those letters at that time, having just placed a memorial at the monument.

Regards

Mike

Mike
You probably have most of this anyway but below are my Caernarfon file notes on Henry Rees.

Hywyn

The town Memorial as Hugh Tregarthen Rees
<o:p></o:p>
Carnarvon’s Roll of Service published in the Carnarvon Herald on <st1:date Year="1915" Day="23" Month="4">23^rd April 1915</st1:date>: H Rees, 2^nd Lt RWF, Glanmenai
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Hy H Tregarthen Rees, Glan Menai is on a list of men joined the 16^th RWF (C&D H 19/12/1914)
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Roll of Honour at <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Christ</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>Church</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>, Caernarfon: 2^nd Lt H Tregarthen Rees RWF, killed in action <st1:date Year="1916" Day="10" Month="7">10^th July 1916</st1:date>.
<o:p></o:p>
News was received last week that Lt Hugh Rees, 16^th RWF second eldest son of the late Mr John Rees, Glan Menai, <st1:Street><st1:address>North Road</st1:address></st1:Street>, Carnarvon had been killed on the battlefield. It was only about two weeks ago that he was home with his family. (HC 25/7/1916 photo with article)
<o:p></o:p>
Gravestone at St Peblic Churchyard (GFHS MI Pt5 J390) commemorates Hugh Tregarthen 2^nd Lt 16^th Bn RWF killed in action at Mametz Wood 10^th July 1916 aged 24 years.
<o:p></o:p>
CWGC: Second Lieutenant Henry Hugh Tregarthen Rees, 16^th Battalion RWF died <st1:date Year="1916" Day="11" Month="7">11/7/1916</st1:date> aged 24 years. Son of John and <st1:City><st1:place>Ada</st1:place></st1:City> Josephine Rees, of Glan Menai, Carnarvon. Commemorated on Pier and Face 4A, Thiepval Memorial (having no known grave)
<o:p></o:p>
1901 Census finds Henry H T Rees aged 8 yrs at Glan Menai with his parents John Rees, a Ship-owner, mother <st1:City><st1:place>Ada</st1:place></st1:City>, and brother John T 9 yrs, Louis T 7 yrs and Albert T 6 years.

His brother Louis Tregarthen Rees was in the Canadians

Here are his attestation papers

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/d...3hbvdapr3h20d0

His brother Albert Rees was said to be in the Denbighshire Hussars Yeomanry (DHY)in April 1915.

He is Albert Tregarthen Rees Corporal 216068 Denbigh Yeomanry later Cpl 235839 in Royal Welsh.

His papers exist showing a discharge address of 12 Curzon Rd, Prenton, Birkenhead with his mother as next of kin at this address. Haven't read them properly yet but looks like he served some time late 1918 with 2nd Bn RWF. Do you have access to Ancestry?

Hywyn

PS Lots of other Rees in C'fon inc a VC namely Captain Lionel Wilmott Brabazon Rees if you know any to be cousins etc.

You can e-mail the Thiepval Visitor Centre at thiepval@historial.org so why not give it a try.

John

Mike

I have gone through various 'unprocessed' bits and bobs that I have and I see that I have a scan of the Carnarvon Herald report of his death (with photo) and it also quotes the letters from Major McLellan, Captain H R Davies both of 16th RWF and also a Mrs Jones of 1 Penrhyn Crescent Llandudno where he was billeted whilst the Battalion was there prior to going overseas. Mrs Jones was in constant touch with 'her men' and had had a number of letters from Hugh and the others including one from an unnamed man stating 'Rees' and others were casualties.

It is possible that these are the letters you have seen at Thiepval (in what form were they?) either deposited by another family member or a RWF researcher?


You can have a copy of the scan if you want it.

Hywyn

Hywyn

Many thanks that is excellent work!

Yes I would love to have a copy of the newspaper report and I think that is likely the source of the information at the Thiepval visitor centre.

The information appeared on screen when I typed in his name and I managed to take a decent photo of the screen.

Albert Tregarthen Rees is my grandfather and until your input I had nothing to go on.
Like many he did not speak of his experiences to anyone. My father could not remember his regiment beyond Denbighshire Hussars and says his father never spoke of his service to him.

There is another Rees brother who served, William Richard Tregarthen Rees again I have nothing on his service.

Louis T, Albert T and William R T all survived

Thanks again Hywyn and John for your help, as you can see this is beginning to snowball.

Regards

Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dieselfumes

There is another Rees brother who served, William Richard Tregarthen Rees again I have nothing on his service.

Louis T, Albert T and William R T all survived

---

Mike, you probably mean 89847 William RT Rees, RWF, of 1 Strand, Ferndale. Unfortunately his service and pension records have been destroyed.

If he's the one, I have two more from Ferndale in the 1st Bn:

Rees, Oliver, 14886 L/Cpl
Born Ferndale, Glamorgan. Landed 18/02/1915. KiA 16/05/1915, age 24. Buried Cabaret Rouge British Cemetery, Souchez.,
Rees, Richard, 4930 Pte
Bron in Pontygwaith, Ferndale, Glamorgan. Special Reserve. Landed 02/11/1914. KiA 30/10/1914. Commemorated on the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.

The service record of Richard Rees still exists.

John

Hello Dieselfumes,
I have a map of most of the regimental dressing stations in and around Ypre I am awfully busy right now. I will open it up and have a shufti at it later on. It is bloody huge.
Regards RBD aka jungle1810.

A very generous offer, Don, and much appreciated. Look at the bottom of the map. If - as I fear - the Somme area is not on it, you're finished.

John

Many thanks jungle1810,

I suspect Mametz may be too far south for your map but I appreciate you trying anyway.

Regards

Mike

Mike

PM me your email address and give me a couple of days to send it.

Hywyn

There are a couple of good books written on the Battle of Mametz

One I would recommend as an aid to easy understanding of what went on is printed in the Battleground Europe Series Mametz Wood by Michael Renshaw
(ISBN 0 85852 664 7).

Another is Mametz Lloyd Gearge's Welsh Army at the Battle of the Somme' by Colin Hughes by Orion Press, this his harder to find. On page 94 it has a description of the 16th Battalion attack on Strip Trench.

In the RWF Musuem is a painting of the battle and from my perspective this could well be the attack on strip trench, I have walked the very spot. Its quite a terrifying picture that captures the horror of the moment. Try this Link http://www.rwfmuseum.org.uk/nbsomme.html


You must visit the Mametz Memorial to 38th Welsh Division, one of the most impressive on the Somme to my mind. Try this link http://www.somme-1916.com/memorial003.htm

Hope this is of some use.

Hello Baconwallah & Dieselfumes,
You are both correct as expected from the military experts that you are. This was the first time I have opened the map. It is designated in the top right handed corner as parts of 19,20,27,28,36,36a,the south shows Armentieres It is from a War Office Map of 1924. Sorry.
Regards RBD aka jungle1810

Mike,
One possible way of locating an Advanced Dressing Station (ADS) in the Mametz action would be to examine the War Diaries (series WO95) for the relevant Field Ambulances at the National Archives Kew.

The ADSs would be established by the Field Ambulances of the Royal Army Medical Corps attached to the 38th Welsh Division. These were the 128th, 129th, and 130th FAs. Their preparations for the action should include notes on where various medical facilities (ADS, Rest Posts, Walking Wounded Posts, Carrying Stations etc.) were located, hopefully with a contemporary map reference. One of these FAs would be allocated to each Brigade taking part in the attack, so whichever one dealt with 113th Inf. Bde. is the one you want.

If he was picked up by some of his battalion's 32 designated stretcher bearers, the usual first port of call (after crossing the still-deadly space of No Mans Land) would be the 16th RWF's Regimental Aid Post, where their Medical Officer and a couple of hard-pressed orderlies would apply dressings or attempt other "First Aid" treatment. The RAP could have been a dugout or similar site located in the support or reserve lines of the trench system from where the battalion launched its attack; but sometimes was pushed forward nearer the action, eg. in a convenient large shell hole! It could sometimes take hours for the wounded just to be carried back to the RAP, against the flow of "traffic" heading through the narrow and congested trenches. In action, priority was given first to reinforcements; secondly to ammunition carriers; and only thirdly to casualty evacuation.

The ADS was a little further back, just beyond the trench system; and the Field Ambulance itself (effectively, what we'd call a Field Hospital today) even further. Sometimes the phrase "Dressing Station" has been applied to the RAP, just to confuse matters.

You might be able to identify the correct ADS and even RAP locations, but where your relative died and was buried depended on the exact conditions at that moment. If still with the stretcher bearers threading their way through the communication trenches, they were under no obligation to transport a dead body any further; and accounts from 130th FA at Mametz (largely with 115th Bde.) show that even their own deceased personnel were hurriedly interred in handy shell holes (unmarked and unrecovered). If he got as far as one of the facilities where a grave was dug along with others, even these sometimes were unrecorded, or the sites were obliterated by shellfire as the Somme and later battles ground on.

Anyway, it's one source that might provide the information you seek.

Clive

Clive
Many thanks for your input, excellent idea!

I had a quick look at docs online available from Kew but it seems nothing from the FA's you indicated is there.
What is fast becoming apparent is I need to plan a visit to the National Archives armed with these avenues you and others have produced for me.

Kind Regards
Mike

Received this from Thiepval (thanks for the link Baconwallah)
Can anyone tell me what the insignia are on the lapels ?

Regards
Mike

The collar badges are the exploding grenades worn by the Royal Welch Fusiliers. And, if I'm not mistaken, also by the Lancashire Fusiliers.

John