Need Help Please - John French Pierce and Robert Davies 4th RWF WW2

---

I am researching my paternal grandfather John French Pierce (DOB 07/08/1915 Llanrwst) and his cousin Robert Davies (KIA 02/08/1944 - CWGC lists parents as Robert and Margaret) and can't seem to make any headway. I believe JFP was severely wounded sometime in 1944 (possibly when cousin Robert was killed). I have JFP's birth certificate and his parents were Thomas (Pte RWF and plasterer) and Mary nee Davies. I am desperate to know some more details about his wounding. He spent sometime in Stoke Mandeville and - I believe - played football for llanrwst Town (at least in 1936/37 as I have a small medallion of his).

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions for avenues to explore would be most welcome. Regards Michael V

Michael

Can't help you with the WW2 matters but I can possibly help withidentifying his father Thomas Pierce in RWF WW1 if his number isn't known to you. If he was from 12 Wellington Place, Llanrwst then he was Sgt 20130 in 14th RWF. There is another 'local' Thomas Pierce and he was from 45 Henllan St, Denbigh. He was Pte 200061. Was he either of these two?

Gwil

Hey Gwil, Thanks for your reply. I don't know the regimental number of Thomas. JFP's birth certificate has them at 4 Wellington Street Llanrwst on 7 August 1915. I have seen the index card for both listed but neither have an address. Can you point me in the direction where the addresses came from?

Hey Michael, I'm also over here (as well as WW2 Talk.)

Any pictures of Pierce and Davies would really help me at this stage, even just posted on here for reference material to dissect the information of insignia and so on so I can use my archive more effectively. I can definately say that Davies was killed during the reorganisation of 53 Div following 158 (Royal Welch) Brigade's bashing at Evrecy during Greenline.

Hey Swiper, first attempt to upload a photograph. JFP is on the left

Attachment 2480

Michael

The 14th Battalion has a printed list of it's Officers and Men who embarked for France in December 1915 giving name, number and address. Note that he was discharged 14/8/1917. There is no Silver War Badge reference on the card but I can tell you that he is Roll J/1024 which states he was discharged due to wounds. He had enlisted 17/11/1914 and was aged 38 (this I think is at discharge). There is a photo of a 14th Bn reunion in the 1930s to be found in the Vaults section of this Forum. Maybe he is on it and some of the elders in your family might spot him there?

The Denbigh one is a 4th Battalion Territorial number and an early one at that indicating that he was in the TF from at least 1908. The 1st 4th were in France from 1914 onwards but his card does not indicate that he was with them. We can speculate a bit more about him but at the moment I would say that the 14th Bn is looking to be your great grandad?

Perhaps I can add a few notes, Hywyn.

The 200061 number indicates an original 4 RWF number between 5594 (enlisted 1st Vol Bn 01/05/1907, re-enlisted 4 RWF 04/1908, renumbered 200060) and 5654 (renumbered 200062). This follows from my recent work on the 4 RWF muster roll for 06/11/1914.

The MIC has only the February 1917 number, which would indicate that he did not land until March 1917 at the earliest (but see the mysterious case of Alf Boyes, also of 4 RWF, who has a six-digit MIC (200579) but appears to have been present in 4 RWF when it landed in France in Nov 1914).

John

Hey All, still struggling with the mystery. Awaiting a couple of responses to see if they can shed some more light on this. Anyhow I do have one more question I am hoping this forum can answer - was the RWF stationed anywhere in the vicinity of Peterborough, Stamford, Ryhall, Duddington, Belmisthorpe? Particularly during Feb-Mar-April 1942. I don't really know the area and can assume that the train was the preferred (only) method of longer-distance travel at the time. Knowing this would get me a little closer in establishing if JFP was RWF and that he was in Robert Davies' battalion (being the 4th). Anyhow thanks for reading. Mickyvic

I have contacted our resident WW2 expert, Swiper, who will see what he can do for you, Michael. It may take a day.

John

From Nov 41 - Mar 42 the 4th & 7th Bns were based in Lichfield, whilst the 6th were at Penkridge, South Staffs. After Mar 42, they moved to SE District in Kent, where they were to remain until moving into concentration areas in 1944.

Looking through various publications, including "Red Dragon", I cannot find any reference to the locations that you mention. Swiper will hopefully give you the definitive answer.

Al

Still struggling with my little family mystery. I have John French Pierce's death certificate which identifies him as a retired builder. This seems contrary to my grandmother's memories of him being confirmed to a wheelchair since the end of the war. I made brief contact with a distant relative and their memories are a little different. He went to India and Burma and returned with a tropical disease (which made him go yellow for a while). Whilst this information is also supplied by an older person its interesting that the first memories were of returning from India and Burma rather thah being so severely wounded that he was confined to a wheel chair. The RWF's sailed in March 1942 (if my research is correct) which seems to align with my father's birth nine months later. What the two stories do agree on was that he played professional football - Belfast Celtic and my grandmother's memory of him in a green andwhite hooped shirt. Will try for the service record which - even without proving NOK - should give us some more information. Still hoping for further information from the distant relative but it seems to have gone a bit quiet. Have written a letter to the informant of JFP's death but after 20 years (interestingly i receive his death certificate twenty years to the day) I don't hold out muchh hope. Tried Ancestry.com.au, two or three Irish and Welsh football history sites, Belfast Celtic facebook, Llanrwst local museums and a couple of other areas. Anyone got any left field ideas of how I can try to find out about my paternal grandfather? Mickyvic

I couldn't see that you had JFP's service number. He served with a Territorial RWF unit. That is all I know.

4190839

Pierce, John French

That certainly sounds like he was a member of 1 RWF. I believe the War Diary may help. I'll check the Regimental history from 1950 and see if he gets a mention at all.

Cheers for that, thats the tidbit of info we really needed!