Thomas William Evans

Hi.
My name's Michelle and I'm doing some work on my family tree.Trying to find out any information I can about my great grandfather Thomas Evans.
I know very little apart from the fact he was in the Royal Welch Fusiliers.This is all the information I know:
Thomas William Evans p.t.e 25762,born in 1896 in Mansfield Nottinghamshire.Married on December 26th 1917 in Wrexham to Gertrude Groom and died in May 1947.
There's a story in my family that he was gassed in France at some point which is why he left the fusiliers.
Not very experienced with military records so would greatly appreciate any information or help.

Thanks.

Evans, Thomas WIlliam, 25762 Pte
Enlisted 17th Bn RWF May 1915 and landed in France with the Bn on 04/12/1915.
Discharged, no longer fit for war service, 07/09/1916.
Awarded 1915 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal.
Service and pension records no longer available.

That's all I could find. If you want to know more about the operations 17 RWF was involved in, read Vol III of the Regimental Records of the Royal Welch Fusiliers, available through the Regimental Museum (http://www.rwfmuseum.org.uk/pu.html) or simply through your local library.

Hope this helps.

John

Hi Michelle,

Based on what John has mentioned. One thing that springs to mind is the action at Mametz Wood. The 17th Bn took part in trying to capture it in early July 1916 as part of the Battle of The Somme. Its been extensively covered in many book's, there is also a memorial at the edge of the wood to all those RWF who fought and died there. Its very possible of course, that he was injured prior to that, further research may assist in answering that.

I don't have access to Regimental Records at the moment, but something in my mind tells me the Battle Of The Somme was the first action that the service battalions(including the 17th) had been involved in. I found this small piece after searching on Mametz:

Later that morning of 6 July, further Royal Welch (Service) battalions arrived – the 13th, 14, 15th, 16th and 17th, having marched for a week, and ‘were tired and footsore’. Siegfried Sassoon watched the new men arrive:

“They were mostly undersized men...and I had a sense of their victimisation. A little platoon officer was settling his men down with a valiant show of self-assurance....He spoke sharply to some of them, and I felt that they were like a lot of children....Visualising that forlorn crowd of khaki figures under the twilight of the trees, I can believe that I saw then, for the first time, how blindly war destroys its victims...I understood the doomed condition of these half trained civilians.”

They had been in France since December 1915, and as a Service battalion had been constantly at work in excavation and entrenching work throughout the year under extreme and harrowing conditions. Now, they were to be primary assaulting troops on Mametz Wood.

Wow! Thank you both so much.I'm really happy to receive the information. I had an idea that he probably left the Fusiliers before his wedding as it doesn't
appear on the marriage certificate.My uncle has his medals so I knew about them and recently identified them.Thank you also for the book recommendation,I'll
be very interested to find out about them.If you discover anymore information I'd like to hear but I'm also grateful for the work you both have already done.

Many thanks.

The pleasure was entirely mine, Michelle.

It is not unusual for new posts to be added to a thread as and when someone can add a piece to the puzzle, so please check back every now and then to see if there is any news. And if you yourself find out more, we'd also like to be kept informed, of course!

John

The actual Silver War Badge Roll in his case (J/36) states he was discharged due to Sickness (They differentiate Sickness/Wounds) The question here is, whether gassing was 'Wounded' or 'Sickness'

Here's what a Silver War Badge looks like and why they were given. Maybe you have this one in with his medals?

http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/swb.htm

I'm not sure how long it took to actually discharge a man so it's difficult to know for certain how long he was in France with the battalion The War Diaries for the 17th are available to download from the National Archives for a mere £3.50.You may want to view the first few months of his time there.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/d...&resultcount=9


Hywyn

PS What was his Wrexham address?

Glad to see you back, Hywyn!

The difference between 'sick' and 'wounded' was the same as the difference between 'injured' and 'wounded' - the former related to non-war related conditions. 'Gassed' was classified under 'wounded'. For discharge/admin purposes, 'sickness' was often taken to be aggravated by war service (until it was time to calculate the pensions, of course...).

Silver War Badges were individually numbered, as far as I know.

John

Thanks for that,given me something to think about.I don't know much about the gassing part,
it comes from asking questions in the family.I'm not sure about the silver war badge.Doesn't look like anything I've seen in the medals,but if I get chance I'll try and chase it up.
The only Wrexham address I have for him appears on the marriage certificate from 1917.
Lyndhurst,Ruabon in Wrexham.With it being a year after he left service I didn't think it would have much significance.I'm having trouble chasing down his birth certificate and I know little about his life before he joined.

Perhaps I can throw some feeble light on the 'sickness'. Most common causes were malaria (in old regulars who had served in India) and myalgia, also called rheumatism, caused by the living conditions in the trenches. These were generally a reason to send a man back to the UK, post him to the Wrexham depot and discharge him - eventually - as MU, medically unfit. Rather less usual causes of sickness were congenital heart conditions (coded as for example VDH, valvular disease of the heart), diabetes or kidney diseases. These were never detected at the first medical examination of a new recruit, as that consisted of little else than measuring the chest, taking the pulse, testing the eyes and describing all scars and tattoos present.

The time to discharge appears to have depended on the length of time the man concerned spent in hospital. I have not yet come across a man discharged while in hospital. Generally the authorities waited until the man had been referred to a convalescent centre or a centre for artificial limbs, or was sent home as incurable and beyond help. From that point on, the procedure seems to have taken a month or more.

In this case of 'sickness', your guess as to the cause is as good as mine.

John

Thanks John. It's been pretty quiet for WW1 stuff for a while.

The number of his Silver War Badge is 81641. Stamped on the back I believe.


There is a Hugh Oliver Evans of Lyndhurst, Bryn Field, Ruabon who was 7365 in RWF but transferred to Welsh Regiment as 15676 (later renumbered 267067). His RWF number is undoubtedly a 4th Battalion (Territorial) number, enlisting around mid March 1914. Given Thomas was from Mansfield then possibly he's not related?

Hywyn

Do you have any reason for suspecting a relation between these two Evanses, Hywyn?

John

Morning John

The address provided by Michelle is the same. But possibly it's a common housename in the area or a street.

Hywyn

I see, Hwywn. Didn't notice that.

They might be related, but from other threads I recall that different families with the same name at the same address were not that unusal, especially with common surnames as Roberts, Davies or Evens (or several others). Perhaps the BDM section of Ancestry might help here - I am not an expert on that and subscribe only to the military info.

John

Thanks for the information about the silver war badge.I don't remember seeing it in the medals as I said before but I'll be asking questions about it.Would like to track it down if I can.
That's interesting about the other Evans.I was thinking maybe he could have lived with some other
people.I'm pretty sure he was born in Mansfield but I'm not 100% as I haven't found his birth details yet.As you say Thomas Evans is a popular name! I know there's welsh somewhere back in the family but I haven't found anything researching Thomas.
Is there any personal information about him where you found out about his medals or anything?

Michelle.

Looking at Ancestry, the best offer for his birth cert is Thomas William Evans born in Oct 1895 in Mansfield. Of course thats dependent how he was registered. Any other useful info on the marriage cert? or your other sources. Sometimes the tinniest info, springs onto something else.

I think that's the one I found apart from what month he was born.Most of my family I've talked to insist he was welsh but the only solid lead I have is Mansfield.It would fit for me because the rest of my Evans side were born there until my mother's family moved to wales.
Not a lot on the marriage certificate but I have his occupation after the Fusiliers and his fathers name.Thank you for helping me with that information.Its great to get some information on him. Obviously if any other information about his time in service appears I'd love to hear but again I deeply appreciate the hard work you've all done so far.

Michelle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelle_82

Is there any personal information about him where you found out about his medals or anything?

Michelle.

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Sorry, Michelle, but if there had been I'd have copied it for you. The medal information came from the Medal Index Card, and the name explains exactly what it is. Even the first name is not always given (and as a researcher I can assure you that is is very hard indeed if all you have are fifty MICs all to 'Williams W' - fortunately the numbers are different).

Sometimes we have service records or pension records, but many were destroyed in the Blitz. Nothing for TW Evans, unfortunately, but his MIC is there, see below.

John



Attachment 2463

Thanks for that John.
Wasn't sure if there would be any of his information there or not.
Thank you for his MIC too.

Michelle.