Bloody Sunday

This is getting a bit of media attention at the moment . Just thought that I would pose a couple of questions and realise some thoughts and opinions from the forum .
Clearly the investigation has been at the forefront of all those involved particularly the wounded and deceased . This is now 38 years old and continues to resurface , but warrants sensitivity , understanding and perhaps closure .
Most of us did Op Banner in some way or other more often than not when we were little more than kids ourselves ( I say that with no research to back it up but I would imagine that most of us were little more than out of our teens on our first tour ).

I personally was still at school in 1972 , but I bet a few of you were there , not at the scene but , in the Province .

My questions are ;

• Should Op Banner be placed into memory and a line drawn into the sand , if so how do we achieve this ?
• Should perpetrators on all sides continue to be brought to justice even though their alleged crimes are nearing the forty year mark ?
• If so , how do we accurately confirm their guilt and what consequences should be imposed upon them ?
• How would we be feeling now having been involved with the events of that day when we are at least into our late 50s with our careers in the Military long gone and have totally different lives now to what we had then ?
• Should we conclude a conflict or as we have all witnessed the incarnation of WW2 criminals continues long after the event ?

I do not want to open a can of worms here but , I know exactly how it would be affecting me right now . This does not stop at me but also the people who have sought justice for so long on both sides . Also to all the brave people who died for what they believed in whether it be military or civilian . It is not about becoming mellow and forgiving with age but moreso a reasonable request to share the thoughts of others who have experienced this theatre , it's highs , it's lows , the scary bits and the downright hell that some people endured .

As a footnote , conflicts continually occur , as one ends the next one begins , so this has long lasting consequences for anyone involved with Military Operations , there must be closure of some kind or do we all forever wait for the knock on the door ?

Just my thoughts , no intention to cause anger , upset , bitterness or outrage .

I rejoined the Adv Party of the Bn from Depot on 16 Feb 1972, which was just after 'Bloody Sunday', which means that NO Royal Welchmen were involved.

Having just heard on the news that the enquitry has come out against HM Forces, I reserve judgement until I have ready the verdicts.

One thing to remember is the Republican strength at the time. There are certain mem bers of the Republican community in NI, who will rub their hands in glee, even though they were involved - (no names as it would be a disaster).

You can't tell me that it took less than 6 months to set up the Republican movement in Londonderry (only Republican's call it Derry)? and did HMG take the threat of violence out of the Bogside and Creggan when Op Moterman went in.

A very poignant thread. I for one feel that yes there needs to be closure on this event, but a report was conducted 4 months after the event so why do we need another one 38 years on? So my next question would be to this new report. Given the events since 1972 and the reconciliation that has undoubtedly been seen to have been carried out, does this report not cast a complexion of today's thoughts as to how the events paned out, and not the reflections of those who were on the ground. Many experiencing a phenomena that they had very little training for and were utilising the skills of a soldier not the riot policeman of today?
Personally, I feel this is opening old wounds again, playing to a particular constituency of people and does nothing to provide closure only blame and the deepening of the old miss-trust!

Hingey

Is it easy to sit in an office and make judgement on something that happened nearly forty years ago??
it is easy to read statements of fact! After the event, and make a judgement and not be able to feel the tension, the fear and the anger of all those that where there, both civilians, police and H.M. forces.

Yes I suppose a line should be drawn undrneath this enquiry now and move on.

Compassion and respect for those that fell.

I half expected that the response to this thread would be quiet. The Regiment lost three good men on the tour that covered that period of time in Londonderry (I believe the most lives lost on a single tour of duty since WW2 by the 1st Battalion) and some who were there, may find it impossible to feel any sympathy for the families of those who were shot on Bloody Sunday.
If this enquiry brings closure to the families of the victim so that they themselves can find an end to the grieving process and move on for the rest of their lives, it will have been a worthwhile exercise. Some may say that "it happened nearly 40 years ago let it go" but for those families it was still very fresh in their minds. Now they have closure.
Should the soldiers be brought to book now after all this time....well that is for each individual to decide for themselves. I suppose the question is, do you believe in Justice or just us. That is between you and your own concience.

as a civilian i find this whole thing a massive waste of time and money. An enquirey was held at the time the outcome of which obviously did not satisfy the families of those killed. so nearly 30 years later another enquirey is held. how could this possibly take into account the politics,feelings and tensions of the time. the fact of whether these people were armed or not is a complete irrelevance you do not have to be armed to cause a death. as a police officer in the late 60's early 70's i recall we were authorised to use whatever force was required if we believed we were being threatened.
however i do'nt wish to seem unsympathetic but, these people were there by choice,they did not have to be there. therefore they have to accept some of the responsibility for the outcome. the troops however did not have that choice they were obeying orders and i believe had the right to protect themselves by whatever means.
i do not believe that anyone should be prosecuted for this incident neither do i believe that any compensation should be paid to the relatives of those killed.

finally we all know that yesterdays freedom fighter/terrorist/patriot becomes to-days politician all things move on but i do not think this report will help that process.

If the result of the Inquiry was announced at 12.00 midday, I would like to find out what time the first application for compensation hit the desk of the local magistrates?

Hello Gwyn et al,
In your thread re Bloody Sunday you put in (parenthesis) that the 3 men the regiment lost. Was the most lives lost by the regiment in a single tour of duty, since W.W.2. I may well have taken this thread out of context, or even mis-read it But the 2nd Battalion RWF lost 11 men on active service in Malaya during their tour of duty 1954 to 1957, this includes one RWF officer on secondment to the Malaya regiment. But to be honest it is some what of a mess.
Regards to all RBD aka jungle

Having visited 11 Cable Street, The Bogside twice during the Bn's first tour over there looking to arrest Martin Mcguinness who was without a shadow of a doubt involved in the IRA at the time I would support justice for all if Mr Mcguinness and Mr Gerry Adams were also brought to justice for their part in supporting and organizing terrorisim.
When the Bn were on the first tour in Londonderry there was a very strong feeling that the Paras caused more trouble in Belfast and Londonderry as they always went in much harder than other units as they had a certain reputation to keep, the Para officers I believe have a lot to answer for as the men were being led by them.
The politicians of the day are also guilty of their part in an incident which brought untold shame on the British Army and in particular the many Infantry Bn's who served with distinction over the years.
Rant over,
Joe.

Thanks and Quite correct Jungle I meant the 1st Battalion and no disrespect to the 2nd Battalion. I have now ammended my post.

What has been said is correct regarding mR Mc and Mr Adams. I can remember the troops going into the City on Moterman, and hearing later in the day the famous shouts "No surrender" from the Creggan as the last of the terrorists leave via the back door into the Republic. Of the three of the Bn who were killed on the first tour, 2 were killed in the City, when companies were deployed to assist with changeovers of the 4 months Bn's.

Mr McG said, when interviewed yesterday, he was on a march and was not carrying a weapon, yet the inquiry said that he was!!!!!

Tell me, what has happened to the suspects of the Omagh bombings. Has there been a call for a full enquiry and the prosecution of peeps indirectly involved in the incident.

It is time that such things as Bloody Sunday, the Omagh Bombings and alike should be closed. There is one incident that we the servicemen have put aside and that is Warrenpoint - certain people know who did the killings, but dont have the (my name with an s at end) to come out and say so.

Lets not forget but lets progress.

why is'nt McGuinness on Trail...He started it...and then as per the norm said nothing...The murdering Scumbag..I hope non of the Para's Involved have to face Prosecution..

People talk of closure. What's the point. This is a Country steeped in undivided loyalties, and it has been going on for over three hundred years. Even recently there has been further terrorist activity in the province.

Bloody Sunday was a chapter in Irish hsitory. A chapter in a protracted book which I believe may not even have an end.

To clarify my post, when I speak of closure I refer only to to the grieving process which affects everyone who loses sombody in circumstances other than natural causes. For example the parents of the children who have still not been found following the horrendous Moors murders. They still want to know where their children are so that they can bury them decently. That is the closure to which I refered. I agree with Paul in that the book on NI, may not yet be finished, but this is one chapter perhaps that has reached its conclusion.

I was 3 years old when the events of bloody Sunday took place. I never served in Ireland as a soldier but I did work (as a civilian) in Northern Ireland after the first cease fire. I was there when that cease fire broke.The company I worked for employed both catholic and protestants. What I am trying to do is give you the context that I view Op Banner with. Those of you who have served there, dodged the bricks, bottles and bullets can make your choice and choose to disregard me from this point in if you want.

After 38 years, the families of those who died got what they wanted. Their loved ones where exonerated. At least two of those who walked out of the enquiry said that this was the end for them. I'm not sure that all of them will have the same attitude. I suspect that some of those families, the leadership of Sinn Fein and even some of the IRA are aware of the stunning victory they won. I also suspect that those who have any sense will not be rushing forward to open other enquiries. It takes two sides to fight a war and atrocity can be applied to both sides. The Protestant majority are very uneasy about the outcome. Some of the hotheads will be asking questions about other events and asking "Where are our enquiries about atrocities committed by the IRA?" If Sinn Fein make too much capital out of this then they may be facing questions that they don't want to answer.

The British public may also decide that have a right to a couple of enquiries. For example, if the Guildford four and Birmingham six were innocent, isn't it time that the real perpatrators came forward? If we extend immunity to them like we did to the Para's, where's the harm. What about the Warren Point bombing? Surely the families of the Para's who died there are entitled to some form of enquiry? My point is simple, we go on chewing over old and bitter bones for the next 100 years, long after those who know are dead and gone and all we will do is keep the divided communities of Ireland divided. If we accept the enquiry at face value and let it lie, then maybe in 50 or 60 years this conflict will be history. Just like Waterloo, Agincourt, Minden and countless other wars. History makes us what we are, it's interesting but it's not politics. Politics causes wars, history records them. History can keep the politics hot or it can explain our folly to future generations.

We took over from the Anglian Reg..but not mention was made of them ...could that be because a large number of them married irish girls